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    U.N. set to implicitly recognize Palestinian state, despite US, Israel threats

    U.N. set to implicitly recognize Palestinian state, despite US, Israel threats

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    Palestinian president at UN ahead of vote



    By Louis Charbonneau UNITED NATIONS | Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:26am EST

    (Reuters) - The U.N. General Assembly is set to implicitly recognize a sovereign state of Palestine on Thursday despite threats by the United States and Israel to punish the Palestinian Authority by withholding much-needed funds for the West Bank government.

    A resolution that would change the Palestinian Authority's U.N. observer status from "entity" to "non-member state," like the Vatican, is expected to pass easily in the 193-nation General Assembly.

    Israel, the United States and a handful of other members are planning to vote against what they see as a largely symbolic and counterproductive move by the Palestinians, which takes place on the 65th anniversary of the assembly's adoption of resolution 181 on the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states.

    Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has been leading the campaign to win support for the resolution, and over a dozen European governments have offered him their support after an eight-day conflict this month between Israel and Islamists in the Gaza Strip, who are pledged to Israel's destruction and oppose his efforts toward a negotiated peace.

    The U.S. State Department said on Wednesday that Deputy Secretary of State Bill Burns and U.S. Middle East peace envoy David Hale traveled to New York on Wednesday in a last-ditch effort to get Abbas to reconsider.
    The Palestinians gave no sign they were turning back.

    Secretary of State Hillary Clinton repeated to reporters in Washington on Wednesday the U.S. view that the Palestinian move was misguided and efforts should focus instead on reviving the stalled Middle East peace process.
    "The path to a two-state solution that fulfills the aspirations of the Palestinian people is through Jerusalem and Ramallah, not New York," she said. "The only way to get a lasting solution is to commence direct negotiations."

    State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland reiterated U.S. warnings that the move could cause a reduction of U.S. economic support for the Palestinians. The Israelis have also warned they might take significant deductions out of monthly transfers of duties that Israel collects on the Palestinians' behalf.

    Despite its fierce opposition, Israel seems concerned not to find itself diplomatically isolated. It has recently toned down threats of retaliation in the face of wide international support for the initiative, notably among its European allies.

    "The decision at the United Nations will change nothing on the ground," Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in Jerusalem. "It will not advance the establishment of a Palestinian state. It will delay it further."

    'SLAP IN THE FACE'

    Granting Palestinians the title of "non-member observer state" falls short of full U.N. membership - something the Palestinians failed to achieve last year. But it would allow them access to the International Criminal Court and some other international bodies, should they choose to join them.

    Hanan Ashrawi, a top Palestinian Liberation Organization official, told a news conference in Ramallah that "the Palestinians can't be blackmailed all the time with money."

    "If Israel wants to destabilize the whole region, it can," she said. "We are talking to the Arab world about their support, if Israel responds with financial measures, and the EU has indicated they will not stop their support to us."
    Peace talks have been stalled for two years, mainly over the issue of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, which have expanded despite being deemed illegal by most of the world.

    In the draft resolution, the Palestinians have pledged to relaunch the peace process immediately following the U.N. vote.

    As there is little doubt about how the United States will vote when the Palestinian resolution to upgrade its U.N. status is put to a vote sometime after 3 p.m. (2000 GMT) on Thursday, the Palestinian Authority has been concentrating its efforts on lobbying wealthy European states, diplomats say.
    With strong support from the developing world that makes up the majority of U.N. members, the resolution is virtually assured of securing more than the requisite simple majority. Palestinian officials hope for more than 130 yes votes.

    Abbas has been trying to amass as many European votes in favor as possible.
    Austria, Denmark, Norway, Finland, France, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland all pledged to support the Palestinian resolution. Britain said it was prepared to vote yes, but only if the Palestinians fulfilled certain conditions.

    Diplomats said the Czech Republic was expected to vote against the move, potentially dashing European hopes to avoid a three-way split in the vote. Germany and the Netherlands said they planned to abstain, like Estonia and Lithuania.

    Ashrawi said the positive responses from European states were encouraging and sent a message of hope to all Palestinians.
    "This constitutes a historical turning point and opportunity for the world to rectify a grave historical injustice that the Palestinians have undergone since the creation of the state of Israel in 1948," she said.

    A strong backing from European nations could make it awkward for Israel to implement harsh retaliatory measures. But Israel's reaction might not be so measured if the Palestinians seek ICC action against Israel on charges of war crimes, crimes against humanity or other crimes the court would have jurisdiction over.

    Israel also seems wary of weakening the Western-backed Abbas, especially after the political boost rival Hamas received from recent solidarity visits to Gaza by top officials from Egypt, Qatar and Tunisia.
    Hamas militants, who control Gaza and have had icy relations with the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, unexpectedly offered Abbas their support this week.

    One Western diplomat said the Palestinian move was almost an insult to recently re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama.
    "It's not the best way to convince Mr. Obama to have a more positive approach toward the peace process," said the diplomat, who was planning to vote for the resolution. "Three weeks after his election, it's basically a slap in the face."

    (Andrew Quinn in Washington, Noah Browning in Ramallah, Jeffrey Heller in Jerusalem, Michelle Nichols in New York, and Reuters bureaux in Europe and elsewhere; Editing by Peter Cooney and Xavier Briand)

    U.N. set to implicitly recognize Palestinian state, despite US, Israel threats | Reuters

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    The UN was also the first entity to recognize Israel.

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    about time now, to clean up the mess...

    setting (international) borders for palestine and - as a consequence - expel the settlers from palestine...

    only because of the USA veto, the statehood for palestine was not granted last november (or was it two years ago?)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by socal View Post
    The UN was also the first entity to recognize Israel.

    Recogonized Israel, indeed.
    The U.N. was the principle body [with US/UK firm support] that created the state of Israel....and subsequently, allowed the green light to systematically [over generations] attain/steal/occupy land to expand on their tiny empire.

    It's all so contradictory and hypocritical.
    The United Nations is chiefly a puppet for Anglo-American directives.

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    the united nations are fine... its the "vetoes" (US, russia, china) that are crap...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by socal View Post
    The UN was also the first entity to recognize Israel.

    Recogonized Israel, indeed.
    The U.N. was the principle body [with US/UK firm support] that created the state of Israel....and subsequently, allowed the green light to systematically [over generations] attain/steal/occupy land to expand on their tiny empire.

    It's all so contradictory and hypocritical.
    The United Nations is chiefly a puppet for Anglo-American directives.
    Palestine never existed. It was unorganized territory. The Jews got all their land takes away in Europe

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    Quote Originally Posted by alitongkat View Post
    the united nations are fine... its the "vetoes" (US, russia, china) that are crap...
    do you think the rockets will stop flying if they do this ?

    are you aware that the arabs are the ones who turned down the 2 state solution multiple times ?

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    UNITED NATIONS — More than 130 countries voted on Thursday to grant Palestine the upgraded status of nonmember observer state in the United Nations, a stinging defeat for Israel and the United States and a boost for President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority, who was weakened by the recent eight days of fighting in Gaza. The new ranking could make it easier for the Palestinians to pursue Israel in international legal forums, but it remained unclear what effect it would have on attaining what both sides say they want — a two-state solution.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by socal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by socal View Post
    The UN was also the first entity to recognize Israel.

    Recogonized Israel, indeed.
    The U.N. was the principle body [with US/UK firm support] that created the state of Israel....and subsequently, allowed the green light to systematically [over generations] attain/steal/occupy land to expand on their tiny empire.

    It's all so contradictory and hypocritical.
    The United Nations is chiefly a puppet for Anglo-American directives.
    Palestine never existed. It was unorganized territory. The Jews got all their land takes away in Europe
    I think the Turks had things organised there. Just because some Jews in Europe had property taken what is the rationale of giving them someone else's land who had nothing to do with taking their property in Europe?
    Donít argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

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    sunny_hundal Sunny Hundal 5h

    World map according to countries who voted for or against to recognise Palestine at #UNGA pic.twitter.com/Ig4xkNYe


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    That map's not quite correct, I know for a fact that NZ voted "yes".

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    NO to palestine said

    Israel
    United States
    Canada
    Czech Republic
    Panama
    Marshall Islands
    Micronesia
    Nauru
    Palau.

    ("The Pacific nations typically support the U.S. and Israel at the U.N. on key General Assembly resolutions.")

    Countries That Voted Against Palestine At UN Include United States, Israel And Canada

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    Quote Originally Posted by socal
    The UN was also the first entity to recognize Israel.
    Yes, 65 years ago today.

    Anyway, hurrah for that- better late than never. The US and Israel are now totally isolated on this major issue, and officially at odds with the international community.
    Australia, typically, took the cowards way out and abstained- but they were actually going to vote No (due to US & Jewish/ Israeli pressure), before a parliamentary revolt forced the PM to back down. Good stuff.
    probes Aliens

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    Expected a lot of green. Surprised Japan didn't abstain.

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    It's got a conscience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    World map according to countries who voted for or against to recognise Palestine at #UNGA
    What's that red bit in the middle of the black part in Europe? Is it Austria? Because you know who else....

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    Quote Originally Posted by socal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by socal View Post
    The UN was also the first entity to recognize Israel.

    Recogonized Israel, indeed.
    The U.N. was the principle body [with US/UK firm support] that created the state of Israel....and subsequently, allowed the green light to systematically [over generations] attain/steal/occupy land to expand on their tiny empire.

    It's all so contradictory and hypocritical.
    The United Nations is chiefly a puppet for Anglo-American directives.
    Palestine never existed. It was unorganized territory. The Jews got all their land takes away in Europe
    An alternative historical perspective, from your textbook version, could be a challenging factor...

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    better the palastinians are inside pissing out than outside pissing in, but it wont be too long before hamas scum screw it up for them again.

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    The U.S. voting no is confirmation of the influence jews have in the U.S. government.
    No reason for them to vote no otherwise.

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    Pronce. PH said so AGAIN!
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal
    Palestine never existed. It was unorganized territory. The Jews got all their land takes away in Europe
    You are insane.

    Let me sum of the history of da jooz, in bullet form:

    - Jews are a polytheism for thousands of years
    - Polytheisms usually have deities with limited powers who occupy certain locations. If you want to talk to a certain god, you have to go to his specific location to speak with him. A lake, a mountain top, a river, a temple, whatever.
    - The Jews' god, one of many, only resides in a temple in Jerusalem. This temple also housed other gods, like Dagon and Astarte.
    - 600s BC: The Chaldeans (New Babylonians) come along, conquer the Levant, cart the Jews back to Babylon in exile, as slaves.
    - Jews retain their customs as a slave class in Babylon. Being so far from their temple they cannot speak to their god, however.
    - Over a generation or so, a religious revolution takes place: The Jews decide to liberate their god from his location so they can thereafter talk to him from anywhere. He is now omniscient but not yet omnipotent. There are still other gods.
    - 500s BC: The Persian Empire conquers the Babylonians, introduce new monotheistic faith called Zoroastrianism. Jews take notes, nod assuringly.
    - Persians are tolerant and respectful, free the Jews and let them go back to Jerusalem.
    - When they get back, Jews point out that, as a people, they almost got wiped out forever. And with it, all their traditions and stories and such. So they decide they better write everything down from the beginning so that it won't be forgotten. This is the first recorded writing of the Torah or Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible), laid down over a generation or so by hundreds of different writers.

    You can tell, when reading it, how confused they were over whether their god was the ONLY god (monotheism), or simply the MOST IMPORTANT god (monolatrism, ie: "we acknowledge there being many gods, but we only worship this dude")....there's constant contradictions over the nature of god, or whether god represented everybody (ie: every other culture's gods were simply instances of our god's glory) or god was competing with other gods for followers..

    Things ironed out a bit as more of the Bible was fleshed out, but the Jews still weren't a certifiable monotheism until the Greeks arrived. At that point, they had to go back and edit the earlier stuff so that it all fit together, but without search+replace tools, they obviously didn't catch everything.

    That's what happens when it takes 400 years and hundreds of authors to write a book.

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    wow quimbian... what consequences does that have today?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koojo View Post
    The U.S. voting no is confirmation of the influence jews have in the U.S. government.
    No reason for them to vote no otherwise.
    Yes, but would you have expected anything less from the U.S.?

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    Pronce. PH said so AGAIN!
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    Quote Originally Posted by alitongkat
    wow quimbian... what consequences does that have today?
    The title of your thread answers that question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quimbian corholla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by socal
    Palestine never existed. It was unorganized territory. The Jews got all their land takes away in Europe
    You are insane.

    Let me sum of the history of da jooz, in bullet form:

    - Jews are a polytheism for thousands of years
    - Polytheisms usually have deities with limited powers who occupy certain locations. If you want to talk to a certain god, you have to go to his specific location to speak with him. A lake, a mountain top, a river, a temple, whatever.
    - The Jews' god, one of many, only resides in a temple in Jerusalem. This temple also housed other gods, like Dagon and Astarte.
    - 600s BC: The Chaldeans (New Babylonians) come along, conquer the Levant, cart the Jews back to Babylon in exile, as slaves.
    - Jews retain their customs as a slave class in Babylon. Being so far from their temple they cannot speak to their god, however.
    - Over a generation or so, a religious revolution takes place: The Jews decide to liberate their god from his location so they can thereafter talk to him from anywhere. He is now omniscient but not yet omnipotent. There are still other gods.
    - 500s BC: The Persian Empire conquers the Babylonians, introduce new monotheistic faith called Zoroastrianism. Jews take notes, nod assuringly.
    - Persians are tolerant and respectful, free the Jews and let them go back to Jerusalem.
    - When they get back, Jews point out that, as a people, they almost got wiped out forever. And with it, all their traditions and stories and such. So they decide they better write everything down from the beginning so that it won't be forgotten. This is the first recorded writing of the Torah or Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible), laid down over a generation or so by hundreds of different writers.

    You can tell, when reading it, how confused they were over whether their god was the ONLY god (monotheism), or simply the MOST IMPORTANT god (monolatrism, ie: "we acknowledge there being many gods, but we only worship this dude")....there's constant contradictions over the nature of god, or whether god represented everybody (ie: every other culture's gods were simply instances of our god's glory) or god was competing with other gods for followers..

    Things ironed out a bit as more of the Bible was fleshed out, but the Jews still weren't a certifiable monotheism until the Greeks arrived. At that point, they had to go back and edit the earlier stuff so that it all fit together, but without search+replace tools, they obviously didn't catch everything.

    That's what happens when it takes 400 years and hundreds of authors to write a book.
    Good but needs fleshing out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by draco888 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by socal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rural Surin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by socal View Post
    The UN was also the first entity to recognize Israel.

    Recogonized Israel, indeed.
    The U.N. was the principle body [with US/UK firm support] that created the state of Israel....and subsequently, allowed the green light to systematically [over generations] attain/steal/occupy land to expand on their tiny empire.

    It's all so contradictory and hypocritical.
    The United Nations is chiefly a puppet for Anglo-American directives.


    Palestine never existed. It was unorganized territory. The Jews got all their land takes away in Europe
    I think the Turks had things organised there. Just because some Jews in Europe had property taken what is the rationale of giving them someone else's land who had nothing to do with taking their property in Europe?
    The Jews sucked it up and moved on. They didn't set up ghettos in Europe after.

    The n American natives sucked it up too.

    The pally thing is a propaganda machine for the Arabs . It's that simple. Don't get caught up in it

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