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  1. #1
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    Britain and the U.S. have no right to tell the jews what to do.

    Britain and US 'have no moral right to prevent Israel acting against Iran'
    Benjamin Netanyahu denounced American and British efforts to restrain Israel from striking Iran, saying that no-one had a "moral right" to prevent his country from acting against a mortal threat.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says US does not have 'moral right' over Iran Photo: AP
    By Adrian Blomfield, Jerusalem and David Blair8:42PM BST 11 Sep 2012
    The Israeli prime minister's words followed a secret visit by an unnamed British official last month, who is understood to have delivered a warning from David Cameron against attacking Iran's nuclear facilities.
    Mr Netanyahu wants America to lay down clear "red lines" beyond which Iran would risk war by pressing on with its nuclear ambitions. He fears that Iran is successfully playing for time while the nuclear programme advances. In response, Mr Netanyahu is pressing Washington to impose a deadline on diplomatic efforts to resolve the confrontation.
    Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, appeared to turn him down on Monday, saying publicly that America was “not setting deadlines for Iran”.
    Mr Netanyahu delivered a caustic response yesterday, saying that under these circumstances, no one could expect Israel to remain patient. “The world tells Israel to wait because there is still time,” said Mr Netanyahu. “And I ask: wait for what? Until when? Those in the international community who refuse to put red lines before Iran don’t have a moral right to place a red light before Israel.”
    This approach would only embolden Iran, warned Mr Netanyahu. “If Iran knows that there is no red line or deadline, what will it do? Exactly what it is doing today – continuing to work unhindered towards obtaining nuclear weapons capability and, from there, nuclear bombs,” he said.

    Israel 'could drop threat of imminent Iran attack' 10 Sep 2012
    Iran 'will attack US bases if Israel bombs its nuclear facilities' 04 Sep 2012
    Barack Obama poised to announce the 'red lines' that would trigger a US attack on Iran 03 Sep 2012
    Israel accuses Obama administration of sending 'mixed messages' to Iran 31 Aug 2012
    The prime minister’s language will increase fears that Israel is intent on launching a unilateral strike on Iran.
    Some observers see Mr Netanyahu’s threats to attack Iran as hollow, believing that Israel does not have a viable military option. They judge that Mr Netanyahu’s real aim is to ensure that the US and European powers continue to maximise the pressure on Tehran, particularly by imposing tougher sanctions.
    However, his threats were taken seriously enough for Mr Cameron to send a senior British envoy to Israel to convey his concern. Sources confirmed that this official, whose identity has not been disclosed, saw Mr Netanyahu about two weeks ago. A British diplomat in Jerusalem and the Israeli prime minister’s office declined to comment.
    Mr Netanyahu’s tough approach has apparently earned Washington’s displeasure, with reports in the Israeli press last night claiming that President Barack Obama has turned down a request from Mr Netanyahu for a meeting during the United Nations general assembly later this month. An unnamed Israeli official said the Israeli prime minister had been told by the White House that there was not room in the presidential schedule.
    Tommy Vietor, a spokesman for Mr Obama, dismissed the report, saying that the President and Mr Netanyahu were not meeting because they would not be in New York at the same time.
    However, he did not address the claim that Mr Netanyahu was prepared to travel to Washington in order to meet at the White House.
    The two leaders have had a testy relationship, with Mr Netanyahu once lecturing the president in the Oval Office on the importance of US support for Israel. Obama officials have also expressed frustration at how Mr Netanyahu has consistently pressurised them to adopt an aggressive posture towards Tehran.
    The US believes diplomacy can still deliver a solution before Iran achieves the ability to build a nuclear weapon. Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, said this threshold would be reached in “a little more than a year”. He said: “We think we will have the opportunity, once we know that they’ve made that decision, to take the action necessary to stop [Iran].”
    Mr Panetta told CBS: “We have the forces in place to be able to not only defend ourselves, but to do what we have to do, to try to stop them from developing nuclear weapons.”
    Britain and US 'have no moral right to prevent Israel acting against Iran' - Telegraph

    Maybe they should keep in mind who supports them before dragging everyone into war.

    In August 2007, the Bush Administration agreed to increase U.S. military assistance to Israel by $6 billion over the following decade. Israel is to receive incremental annual increases of $150 mllion, starting at $2.55 billion in FY2009 and reaching $3.15 billion per year for FY2013-2018.

    The Second 10-Year Plan: Proposed U.S. Military Aid to Israel

    (FY2009-FY2018)

    2009
    $2.55 billion
    2010
    $2.70 billion
    2011
    $2.85 billion
    2012
    $3.00 billion
    2013-2018
    $3.15 billion per year
    Israel receives the FMF aid in a lump sum in the first month of the fiscal year. The funds are placed in an interest bearing account and that interest is used to pay down Israel’s debt to the United States, which was $1 billion as of December 2006.

    In addition to FMF, Israel also receives money for the joint development of missile defense systems. These amounts have been growing over the years, with the bulk of the funding going to the Arrow program.

    Defense Budget Appropriations for U.S.-Israeli Missile Defense

    (FY2006-FY2012)

    ($ millions)

    System Type
    2006
    2007
    2008
    2009
    2010
    2011* 2012
    David's Sling
    $10.0
    $20.4
    $37.0
    $72.895
    $80.092
    $47 $69
    Arrow-2
    $122.866
    $117.494
    $98.572
    $74.342
    $72.306
    $24 $105
    High Altitude Arrow-3
    $20.0
    $30.0
    $50.036
    $51 $61
    Total
    $132.866
    $137.894
    $155.572
    $177.237
    $202.434
    $122 $235


    U.S. Aid To Israel
    "In my professional assessment as an intelligence officer, Trump has a reflexive, defensive, monumentally narcissistic personality, for whom the facts and national interest are irrelevant, and the only thing that counts is whatever gives personal advantage and directs attention to himself."

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    FACT CHECK: Pres. Obama INCREASED Military Aid to Israel in FY2013 Budget
    NJDC — February 17, 2012 – 1:07 pm | Barack Obama | Budget | Election 2012 | GOP Hypocrisies | Israel Comments (0) Add a comment
    FACT CHECK: President Barack Obama has increased foreign military assistance to Israel in his FY2013 budget request. (Follow links to page 172 of the State Department’s FY2013 budget report, showing a $25 million overall year-to-year increase in the White House foreign military assistance budget request.)

    The National Jewish Democratic Council (NJDC) responded today to the Republican Jewish Coalition’s latest divisive effort to use Israel as a partisan wedge issue during this election year. Following a report in Politico that the Jewish Republican group has released a web video attacking President Barack Obama surrounding his record-setting foreign military assistance budget request for Israel, NJDC President and CEO David A. Harris commented:

    “The National Jewish Democratic Council applauds this increased, largest-ever military assistance requested for Israel under President Barack Obama—made all the more significant against the backdrop of a difficult budgetary climate. This is yet another example of how President Obama continues to stand with Israel, time and time again.

    “We are truly through the looking glass here; only those with the most partisan, facts-be-damned agenda would view the largest military assistance package for any foreign country in history at a difficult budgetary time as anything but a powerful way of supporting our closest ally, Israel. The hypocrisy here is astonishing; the simple fact is that the overall budget request for military assistance to Israel is increasing. Further, as has been reported by the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, the missile defense funding previously requested by President George W. Bush for Israel needed to routinely be dramatically increased—and even doubled in 2003—by Congress. This was met with deafening silence on the part of Jewish Republicans, and by us as well, as this was hardly an indicator that President Bush was no friend of Israel.

    “These Republicans continue to play a dangerous game with Israel’s security through such antics. By suggesting anything but the truth—that this Administration has dramatically strengthened Israel’s military capabilities—such tactics as these dreadful videos can incorrectly suggest to the Iranian leadership that now is the time to become even more belligerent against a supposedly weakened Israel. Here we have Republicans sadly placing partisanship above Israel’s safety and security—and placing politics above the rich tradition of bipartisan support for a strong U.S.-Israel relationship.

    “This is the President who initiated the building of the Iron Dome missile defense shield over Israel and secured the funding to make it a reality, protecting the lives of Israelis on a daily basis today. One thing is certain here; President Obama will ensure that Israel gets every dollar it needs for missile defense.”

    Additional facts and citations regarding President Obama’s record regarding the U.S.-Israel relationship, including quotations from Israeli leaders, can be viewed here.
    FACT CHECK: Pres. Obama INCREASED Military Aid to Israel in FY2013 Budget | NJDC Blog

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    I think if they do attack Iran they are going to get such a kicking for doing so by the rest of the middle east they will be lucky to survive. Every single bit of trouble is down to these people in the area and the place would be far better without them there. If Iran does have a nuke and just one is dropped on Israel they are finished for good.
    They might want to tell the Us and the UK to back off but if it does kick off they will be the first countries they will go running to crying for help.
    lets hope they are told to FCUK OFF !
    If they are intent on a war let them fight it !
    Treat everyone as a complete and utter idiot and you can only ever be pleasantly surprised !

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    Israel should attack Iran alone. It should be made obvious that, in no way shape or form, do 'We' (the West) pay for that or condone that. Israel goes it alone and learns it's own lessons, it's own way, with it's own shekels. It is a sovereign nation, and the USA is not it's Colony- that would be Palestine.
    probes Aliens

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    i think that if israel do attack then it will be curtains,, WW3.
    the financial markets are about to go tits up anyway.
    all we have left are the weapons of mass destruction.
    the party is over.
    and it's all built on a fairy-tale. including pure greed and fraud.

    yes the uk and usa will probably support israel.
    god dam.

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    Britain and the U.S. have no right to tell the jews what to do.

    ?? I thought it was usualy the Israelies that told the Americans what to do via Jewish pressure groups back in the U.S. then the Brits follow along.

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    In your title you say "Jew"; but your referring to Israeli edicts in an article about Israeli government policies. Careful there...
    I do not like Israeli policies towards Palestinians or the ME in general; but have no problem with Jews per se.
    So, wassup?

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    Pronce. PH said so AGAIN!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grower
    I do not like Israeli policies towards Palestinians or the ME in general; but have no problem with Jews per se.
    Wot he sed.

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    Can't we all just get abong?

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    The Benghazi attack and a dead ambassador smells like USS Liberty and FF op

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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Israel should attack Iran alone. It should be made obvious that, in no way shape or form, do 'We' (the West) pay for that or condone that. Israel goes it alone and learns it's own lessons, it's own way, with it's own shekels. It is a sovereign nation, and the USA is not it's Colony- that would be Palestine.
    sorry feeling thenon partisan hard working western tax payers are going to get shafted regardless of whether mad mullahs or the rabid rabbis have a few acres of the holyland oil will rocket uncertanty will hike morgages loans and airfares adding to the downturn or perhaps its all gods plan and trumpets will play in theorchid lounges from 12.12.12.
    I used to have a job at a calendar factory.
    I got the sack because
    I took a couple of days off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    It should be made obvious that, in no way shape or form, do 'We' (the West) pay for that or condone that
    So the Israelis are not allowed to use the planes, bombs, missiles, a bombs, nuclear fission, intelligence, radars, financing, submarines....... given to them to wage war against the Iranians.

    Yea sure.

    But I guess it will stop the Iranians attacking the US bases all around them to ensure the US threat is neutralised. The US voters can claim it is nothing to do with them and just continue to wallow in the memories of 9/11.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

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    I am no fan of the mad retards in that part of the world, any of them. But it seems that a lot of people think that if Iran gets the bomb, it won't use it. Ye olde MAD principle.

    I wouldn't be so sure. Thinking from a non-Islam perspective it doesn't make sense for them to use it. Thinking from what I have been gathering about Islam - and I've tried, listening to as many as possible from all sides as this is one of the defining issues of this century - I'm not so sure.

    There's a fundamental difference in approach and motivation to this world and to this life. A vast, deeply ingrained difference.

    Allah may just have to gather a shitload of virgins together, real quick.

  14. #14
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    Parasites

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    No we dont have the right to tell Isreal what to do, However dont use zionist think tanks and pressure groups in the USA and GB to influence foreign policy to do you filthy dirty acts on your behalf.

    If you want a war go for it face to face. I for one dont think that will happen. Smoke and mirrors all the fxcking time.
    Last edited by Breny; 12-09-2012 at 11:51 PM.

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    I hope you are right and like the cold war all bluff ,but having spent time in Iran and muslim countries some of them are crazier than Americans...

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    [quote=The Big Fella;2212241]
    I think if they do attack Iran they are going to get such a kicking for doing so by the rest of the middle east they will be lucky to survive.
    You must not know any military history in the region..

    How many times has the Arabs tried to shit kick Israel, just to get pummeled again ?

    Every single bit of trouble is down to these people in the area and the place would be far better without them there.
    Just soaking up that Arab propaganda eh..

    The Pallies are the Arabs junk yard dog. If the Arabs really cared about the Pallies, they could easily support them financially.
    If Iran does have a nuke and just one is dropped on Israel they are finished for good.

    Gee, I wonder why Israel wants to attack Iran before it gets a nuke ?
    Those fucking war mongering Israelis !
    They might want to tell the Us and the UK to back off but if it does kick off they will be the first countries they will go running to crying for help.
    You sure need a history lesson. The US and UK sternly warned Israel more then one time NOT to attack Egypt.

    What did Israel do ? Without any help

    After a period of high tension between Israel and its neighbors, the war began on June 5 with Israel launching surprise bombing raids against Egyptian air-fields. Within six days, Israel had won a decisive land war. Israeli forces had taken control of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria.
    lets hope they are told to FCUK OFF !
    If they are intent on a war let them fight it !
    They know how to fucking fight. Certanly better at it then Americans or Brits. How did that Falklands thing go for you \?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Israel should attack Iran alone. It should be made obvious that, in no way shape or form, do 'We' (the West) pay for that or condone that. Israel goes it alone and learns it's own lessons, it's own way, with it's own shekels. It is a sovereign nation, and the USA is not it's Colony- that would be Palestine.
    Agreed.

    Like in 1967

    After a period of high tension between Israel and its neighbors, the war began on June 5 with Israel launching surprise bombing raids against Egyptian air-fields. Within six days, Israel had won a decisive land war. Israeli forces had taken control of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria.

    How about US help in that war...

    On June 8, 1967, USS Liberty, a United States Navy electronic intelligence vessel sailing 13 nautical miles (24 km) off Arish (just outside Egypt's territorial waters), was attacked by Israeli jets and torpedo boats, nearly sinking the ship, killing 34 sailors and wounding 171. Israel said the attack was a case of mistaken identity, and that the ship had been misidentified as the Egyptian vessel El Quseir. Israel apologized for the mistake, and paid compensation to the victims or their families, and to the United States for damage to the ship. After an investigation, the U.S. accepted the explanation that the incident was friendly fire and the issue was closed by the exchange of diplomatic notes in 1987. The surviving crew members, and others, have claimed that the attacks were deliberate.[173]

    Oops sorry US, get the fuck out of the way.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid View Post
    i think that if israel do attack then it will be curtains,, WW3.
    the financial markets are about to go tits up anyway.
    all we have left are the weapons of mass destruction.
    the party is over.
    and it's all built on a fairy-tale. including pure greed and fraud.

    yes the uk and usa will probably support israel.
    god dam.
    Fuck do we have allot of Arab brainwash victims here.. No wonder the Arabs adopted the same propaganda strategy that Hitler used.

    Operation Orchard[2][3] was an Israeli airstrike on a nuclear reactor[4] in the Deir ez-Zor region[5] of Syria carried out just after midnight (local time) on September 6, 2007.

    Bush : Olmert did not ask for a green light for an attack and that he did not give one, but that Olmert acted alone and did what he thought was necessary to protect Israel.[23



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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    It should be made obvious that, in no way shape or form, do 'We' (the West) pay for that or condone that
    So the Israelis are not allowed to use the planes, bombs, missiles, a bombs, nuclear fission, intelligence, radars, financing, submarines....... given to them to wage war against the Iranians.
    Given to them ?

    Israel had to replace more than 60 aircraft lost during the Six Day War and the War of Attrition which followed. This began the cooperation with Dassault to build the Mirage 5. The Mirage 5 was named Raam in Hebrew (thunder).
    Dassault Aviation had developed the Mirage 5 at the request of the Israelis, who were the main foreign customers of the Mirage III. The Israeli Air Force (IAF) wanted the next version to have less all-weather capability in exchange for improved ordnance carrying capacity and range as the weather in the Middle East is mostly clear.


    In January, 1969 the French government arms embargo on Israel (on the eve of the Six Day War and after the Israeli attack of the airport of Beirut, in 1969) prevented the first 30 Mirage 5 aircraft (which were already paid for by Israel) plus optional 20 from being delivered and cut off support for the existing Mirage IIICJ fleet.


    This was bad news for the Israeli Air Force, who needed the new Mirage to compensate for the losses of the Six Day War and was still using the origin of this version derived from the Mirage III. Israel then decided to build this plane (Raam A and B project)[1] as it had the necessary plans, although Israel did not obtain a manufacturing license.


    Officially, Israel built the aircraft after obtaining complete blueprints.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal
    Given to them ?
    The weapons systems delivered to the Israelis, from whatever source, go through a vetting process by the country delivering them. In the case of Israel they have been supplied, given, subsidised, purchased with funds, trained on , maintained........ by countries which have withheld similar weapons to other countries.

    So yes they have been given weapons.

    Now the US politicians and generals are purporting to stand away from the decision making on whether or not to attack a sovereign country, against international law and UN charters, and to appear to have a moral compass. Another economical with the truth, weapons, finance, intelligence, training, hand holding moment.

    It's touching to behold.

  22. #22
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    Incidentally, given his statement, what makes Netanyahu think Israel has the right to meddle in US domestic politics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang View Post
    Incidentally, given his statement, what makes Netanyahu think Israel has the right to meddle in US domestic politics?
    Self preservation.

    With Obama in office for another 4 years, the ME will blow. Seeing a good indication of that right now in Libya & Egypt, eh?

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    Jews in the US have been arse banging the US government for decades. The President merely reacts to this pressure and as such, Netanyahu can tell the US to get rooted and not fear any negative consequences in the long term.

    The reason why the Israelis get away with sticking it to the Arabs is because of the Arab states' reliance on tribal associations. Like the blacks in Africa, they can't form a united front. If they could, the Israelis would still not be easy meat, but they would be beatable and that threat would be enough to prevent a full blown conflict in the Biblical lands.

    The collective arrogance of the Israelis is bloody annoying but it is not misplaced. They have power, nuclear weapons, unmatchable support from their bum chums in the US and they can keep the populace motivated through the retelling of 'poor-bugger-me' stories stretching back from WW2, all the way to Soloman and beyond.

    If the Israelis strike Iran, it will be because the US government will, for once, put its citizenry's concerns ahead of it's financial mates, and refuse to go in first. However, if the Israelis strike first, it will only be after Netanyahu gets sanction from the US and a promise of post attack support.

    It won't create WW3, it will remain a regional conflict alone and will do little more to the west than to further embarrass the finances of the US, and to cause an upsurge in violence against US targets worldwide. The Israelis win either way...the Yanks will continue to take it up the bum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    Israel should attack Iran alone. It should be made obvious that, in no way shape or form, do 'We' (the West) pay for that or condone that. Israel goes it alone and learns it's own lessons, it's own way, with it's own shekels. It is a sovereign nation, and the USA is not it's Colony- that would be Palestine.
    A bit difficult when in fact we have supplied the exact weapons needed (aka bunker busters) to do a very bad job of hitting their sites. By very bad job I mean Israel won't hit everything because even our biggest penetrators won't get through the newest installations.
    Fuck Israel, IMO, if they go for it.
    They'll deserve everything they get in return, IMO.

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