Thread: Operation Fast & Furious

Originally Posted by Neo

Things were so much better in the Reagan years.

I know you're joking but Reagan would not even fit in with the GOP that shifted since 2000. He'd be on the fringes of the party.

Barack Obama began his presidency in January of 2009, so, no, Fast and Furiuous did not begin during the Bush administration.






2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious

On October 26, 2009, a teleconference was held at the Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. to discuss U.S. strategy for combating Mexican drug cartels. Participating in the meeting were Deputy Attorney General David W. Ogden, Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer, ATF Director Kenneth E. Melson, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) Administrator Michele Leonhart, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation Robert Mueller and the top federal prosecutors in the Southwestern border states. They decided on a strategy to identify and eliminate entire arms trafficking networks rather than low-level buyers.[3][28][29] Those at the meeting did not suggest using the "gunwalking" tactic, but ATF supervisors would soon use it in an attempt to achieve the desired goals.[30] The effort, beginning in November, would come to be called Operation Fast and Furious for the successful film franchise, because some of the suspects under investigation operated out of an auto repair store and street raced.[3]


Since the end of Operation Fast and Furious, related firearms have continued to be discovered in criminal hands. As of October 2011, guns found at about 170 crime scenes in Mexico were linked to Fast and Furious.[7] U.S. Representative Darrell Issa (R–CA–49), has estimated that more than 200 Mexicans were killed by guns linked to the operation.[35] In June 2011, Carlos Canino, an ATF agent at the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City, testified before Congress that Fast and Furious guns showed up at nearly 200 crime scenes. [36] Reflecting on the operation, Attorney General Eric Holder said that the United States government is "...losing the battle to stop the flow of illegal guns to Mexico,"[37] and that the carnage linked to Operation Fast and Furious is most likely to continue for years, as more guns appear at Mexican crime scenes.[38]


ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by attaboy

U.S. Representative Darrell Issa (R–CA–49), has estimated that more than 200 Mexicans were killed by guns linked to the operation.

Hardly an unbiased source. But it is the fact that Mexico, subject to a violent crime epidemic, gets most of it's guns from the USA- and they are almost all bought perfectly legally, given the virtually non-existent gun control laws in several US states. Such guns as might be in Mexico because of the failed 'Fast n Furious' sting operation are a drop in the bucket.

So here's the rub. Those squealing loudest over operation 'Fast n Furious' are also the most ardent opposers of any tightening of US gun control laws. They believe anyone can buy a gun anywhere, registering it or being a licensed owner (such as with a car) is a threat to their personal liberty, and that they have the right to carry a concealed deadly weapon almost anywhere. In short, staunch Republicans.

Sorry fella's, but your angst does seem rather contrived. This manufactured scandal (like Solyndra) has no legs- you've been trying long and hard enough to make something of it, and they have both been greeted with public apathy. The public grows wise to the ole' dirty tricks brigade- it is much, much harder to 'Swiftboat' someone these days. Remember my parable of that boy who cried wolf?

As far as Obama asserting executive privilege goes, the fact the Opposition will play that up is both obvious and understandable- not like the Dem's would be any different.

In 2007, Mr Obama, then a senator with higher ambitions, chided the then president George Bush for employing his executive authority to block then senior White House adviser Karl Rove from testifying before Congress in a scandal involving the firing of nine US attorneys.

Speaking to CNN host Larry King, Mr Obama had declared the Bush administration had a tendency to ''hide behind executive privilege every time there's something a little shaky''.

Obama however has used his presidential executive privilege less than dubya, and less too than slick willie.

Officials dismissed suggestions the President's action contradicted the position he held as a presidential candidate in 2007. They noted the administration already has handed over 7600 documents and Mr Holder has testified nine times.
The White House spokesman Eric Schultz noted that Mr Obama has shown greater reluctance to use executive privilege than his two immediate predecessors.

Mr Bush invoked the power six times and Bill Clinton 14, according to the Congressional Research Service.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/obama-fa...621-20qup.html

Keep digging- I mean that is your sacred duty as the loyal opposition. But neither FnF or Solyndra have any legs whatsoever, outside of the usual echo chamber. Naturally you can drive the Right into a frenzy at the drop of a hat- but they've been in a state of frenzy since Obama's election. The broad mass of the public however sees Solyndra as the tiny matter it is, and FnF as just a bungled law enforcement operation (one amongst many) that has no bearing on the Presidential office.

Originally Posted by S Landreth

The truth will set you free,……….

the truth means nothing to those trying to hype this manufactured 'scandal'.


taken from attaboy's link:

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) ran a series of "gunwalking" sting operations[2][3] between 2006[4] and 2011.

Well, this Fast & Furious scandal looks to be worse than Watergate as more evidence unfolds. There are many elements that make Fast and Furious #WorseThanWatergate. Brian Terry's death and the deaths of 300+ Mexicans should be first on that list. Nobody died in Watergate, did they? Thought not...

You just don't get it, do you? This 'thing' is only reverberating around the right wing echo chamber. It's got no legs. Swiftboating is so yesteryear.

Originally Posted by sabang

You just don't get it, do you? This 'thing' is only reverberating around the right wing echo chamber. It's got no legs. Swiftboating is so yesteryear.

You are out of touch there buddy. Just because the NY Times calls this a pointless partisan fight doesn't mean the fat chick has sung. The root of Fast & Furious is gun control. That and of course a lot of people have lost their lives due to Holder and Obama thru their criminal actions. Just another nail in Obama's coffin. More he stonewalls, the more this 'thing' will grow longer legs.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The root of Fast & Furious is gun control

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201206210002

Is this what BM is alluding to? Obama's secret scheme to take away the firearms of true Americans? Don't take away their guns so we can lull them to sleep and take away their guns. What a genius La Pierre is.

Originally Posted by S Landreth

Grayson says the GOP House is on a witch hunt, looking for anything that makes the Obama administration look bad -- and anything that deflects attention from real issues.

You quoting that loser Grayson? Even this vid is deleted. This is a scandal. Hey, nobody died in Watergate, did they?

Let's get a few things straight here. We now know that:

• President Obama lied to the American people about his knowledge of Fast and Furious
• Eric Holder lied (again) to Congress

The A.G. refuses to comply with a subpoena. During all that, President Obama, who had never heard of Fast & Furious and knows nothing about it, invoked executive privilege to protect something he’s totally unfamilar with from being made public… whatever it is... Speaking of blaming Bush, the Justice Department just retracted a claim Holder made last week that his Bush administration predecessor had been briefed on F & F. In other words, Holder lied to Congress.

Source

We also know that:

• The Obama administration happily announced the revamped Gunrunner Program (and Fast and Furious) in March of 2009

Project Gun Runner (Fast and Furious) was launched under the orders of President Barack Obama with the knowledge of Attorney General Eric Holder. Deputy Attorney General David Ogden announced the Obama Administration’s new and aggressive ‘comprehensive plan’ on March, 24, 2009. The plan was aimed at disrupting gun trafficking between the United States and Mexico.

Source

• The "constitutional crisis" Holder threatened last week means... he and Obama have been caught red-handed

Is this what Eric Holder meant by his threat [last week] of [an impending] Constitutional Crisis? ... If so, then by their own admission, Obama and the Department of Justice is admitting that they are caught in a corner and the only way out is putting the Constitution in peril.

Source

Executive Privilege is illegitimate to shield an administration from known crimes

In a desperate attempt to prevent the contempt vote in the last few hours, Holder asked President Obama to invoke executive privilege to shield these 1,300 pages of documents from Congress, and the President apparently agreed to do so. Yet that is not the end of the story. Even if properly involved, the Supreme Court has made clear that executive privilege is not absolute. DOJ must provide an explanation why all those documents fit one of the recognized categories of executive privilege. It is questionable whether they all are legitimately subject to executive privilege, for several reasons.

Source

No worries. The Truth Shall Out...heh.

To refresh some folks memories who still believe Operation Fast & Furious began under Bush well, you're mistaken.

"Dubbed "Operation Wide Receiver," the Bush-era operation was run out of Tucson between 2006 and 2007, ending before Bush left office and before Fast and Furious began under Obama in 2009. The differences between it and Fast and Furious are vast, starting with the fact that Wide Receiver produced no dead bodies."

Not the case with Holder's and Obama's Fast & Furious where border agent Brian Terry was killed along with a whole bunch of Mexicans.

Source

Back to you...

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The most corrupt Administration since Tammney Hall...

How Did Obama Know About Fast and Furious Before Eric Holder? - Katie Pavlich

In the interview with Cummings, King shows a clip of stumbling President Obama trying to explain who knew about Fast and Furious and when. The problem? Obama gave the interview in March 2011 and Holder testified before Congress on May 2, 2011 that he had only known about Fast and Furious for a "few weeks."

They are all corrupt.How do you measure who is more?

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The most corrupt Administration since Tammney Hall...

How Did Obama Know About Fast and Furious Before Eric Holder? - Katie Pavlich

In the interview with Cummings, King shows a clip of stumbling President Obama trying to explain who knew about Fast and Furious and when. The problem? Obama gave the interview in March 2011 and Holder testified before Congress on May 2, 2011 that he had only known about Fast and Furious for a "few weeks."

They are all corrupt.How do you measure who is more?

Well, you start by turfing out the evil-doers who are wrecking the economy for starters and that's Obama and his crew.

Originally Posted by Minnie Maugham

This is a scandal. Hey, nobody died in Watergate, did they?

it's time to put a stop to this lie once and for all.

jet, do you have proof that the border agent died because of the guns used in "operation fast and furious"?

no, you don't.

and do you know why you don't have any proof?

because there isn't any.

Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered in December 2010 after a gun battle with a group of five Mexican bandits. Two assault weapons discovered at the scene had serial numbers matching guns that had been tracked in Fast and Furious. Neither could be linked to the bullet that killed Terry, which was too damaged for detailed ballistic analysis. Moreover, these were not "our own weapons." They were weapons that gunrunners purchased and smuggled to Mexico. The fact that ATF agents were watching them do so, and tracking the serial numbers, does not mean they were "our weapons." Precisely the same weapons would have gone to precisely the same places if Fast and Furious had never been launched. Terry would still be dead.

The GOP Is Unbelievably Full of Shit on Executive Privilege

^
Heh, sounds like desperation time there RA.

That river in Egypt?

Holder is going down - take that to the Bank.

Back to you.

They’re Lying and They‘re Hiding it’: Parents of Slain Border Agent Brian Terry Speak Out in Rare TV Interview

The parents of Brian Terry, the slain U.S. Border Patrol agent killed by one of the guns from operation “Fast and Furious,“ appeared on ”Hannity” Thursday night in a Fox News exclusive. They made a desperate and emotional plea for justice for their fallen son.
Kent and Josephine Terry spoke out after President Obama earlier this week asserted executive privilege over Fast and Furious documents, seemingly setting up another roadblock on the path to the truth. They also announced the launch of “The Brian Terry Foundation” in honor of their hero son.
In a compelling and rare TV interview, the Terry family also described how they felt after they first found out their son was killed by a gun that was provided by the U.S. government to Mexican drug cartels, an absolutely life-altering event.
“I was very furious. I was very upset,” Kent said. “(It’s) like it’s a bad dream, like I’m gonna wake up.”
Josephine added she “didn’t believe it“ and there was a ”fog” that clouded her mind during the days after learning of her son’s demise.


The parents also revealed that Attorney General Eric Holder did not contact them before it was reported in the news that Brian Terry’s death was related to Fast and Furious. Even then, they say he only sent a letter and never called.
“Has President Obama ever reached out to you?” Hannity asked.
“At the funeral. He called us. At the funeral home,” Josephine said. “And we didn’t know nothing about the gunrunning, Fast and Furious or nothing about that at that time.”


Source


Of course they are lying. Why would Obama envoke excutive privildge if they wern't?

Update:

Why “Fast and Furious” Matters: Hundreds of people died because of the operation, but no one takes responsibility.

Obama lied, Mexicans died...

This fast and furious mess really showcases what an abject failure the war on drugs has become.

All the political noise and finger pointing around distracts from the real issue:
That the 26 billion budget for the war on drugs is being wasted and serves to make the whole situation much worse.

Arming the cartels just gives the police more excuses to become even more militarized than they already are.

Its pretty insane, and the dim witted crime show addicted public just lets it all happen without a peep.

Totally agreed. Neither would the ATF gunwalking bungles (before FnF there was Operation Wide Receiver, and other probes), no matter how ill conceived, have been considered remotely necessary if there were licensing and registration requirements in place for firearms purchases in the USA. It is no coincidence that most of these operations originated with the ATF in Arizona- which has virtually no controls on firearms sales, and it is certainly no surprise that Mexican drug cartels buy most of their considerable weapons armories in the US, from States like Arizona.

Eric Holder Contempt Vote To Be Held Thursday.

“Both the Washington Post and CNN report that if the House cites Holder for contempt, it will be the first time in history that a U.S. attorney general is held in contempt of Congress.”

Whole lotta firsts with this Obama administrations, huh?