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William · 17-11-2006, 06:40 PM

Bush: Iraq could be the next Vietnam

Hanoi (dpa) - On his first visit to Vietnam, US President George W Bush said Friday that the communist country where the United States once fought a doomed war offers hopeful lessons for the unpopular war in Iraq.

"I guess my first reaction is history has a long march to it and that societies change and relationships can constantly be altered to the good," Bush said.

He repeated that the United States must not withdraw troops from Iraq before its infant government is stable, saying, "We'll succeed unless we quit."

The 1973 US withdrawal of troops without victory in the Vietnam War represents a landmark humiliation for many of its citizens, but Bush - who arrived Friday for a summit of Asia-Pacific leaders - offered a sunnier view, noting that Vietnam today is prosperous and has good relations with the United States, now Vietnam's largest export market.

"It shows how hopeful the world can be and how people can reconcile and move beyond past difficulties for the common good," he said after lunching with Australian Prime Minister John Howard.

It was inevitable that Bush would face comparisons with the current war in Iraq as he visits Vietnam, the previous country where the United States faced an unpopular war.

More than 58,000 American soldiers and 3 million Vietnamese died before the United States withdrew its troops in 1973. Communist North Vietnamese forces two years later defeated the US-backed South Vietnam regime, and the country has been communist-run ever since.

In the 3-year-old occupation of Iraq after a US-led invasion to topple dictator Saddam Hussein, more than 2,850 US soldiers have died and tens of thousands of Iraqis have been killed either by US actions or, increasingly, by sectarian violence.

Asked whether there were lessons on Iraq to be learned from the Vietnam experience, Bush cited his oft-repeated theme that history might offer a kinder view than public opinion today.

"We tend to want there to be instant success in the world, and the task in Iraq is going to take a while," Bush said.

Bush arrived in Vietnam without a key trade deal that had been hoped would symbolize the new era in relations with the communist-run country.

Fresh from his party's defeat in congressional elections last week, Bush was expected to focus on free trade and regional solidarity against North Korea's nuclear-weapons programme as he meets with fellow leaders of the 21-member Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) group.

Bush is to meet with Vietnam's communist leadership Friday, celebrating the country's approval to enter the World Trade Organization (WTO). He was also expected to sign a key bilateral deal Sunday paving the way for Russia's eventual entry into the 150-member world trading club.

"The expansion of trade is the most lasting path to prosperity," Bush said Thursday in Singapore, adding that Apec has a "vital role to play" in pushing for the revival of the global trade talks.

Bush's first trip to Vietnam highlights a new era as the country takes its place on the world stage by hosting Apec and joining the WTO.

But the celebrations have been tarnished by the embarrassing defeat in the US House of Representatives on Monday of the bill to normalize trade relations between the two countries. The bill failed to get the required two-thirds majority to pass without debate.

US Trade Representative Susan Schwab downplayed the measure's initial defeat, saying there is "strong bilateral support" for permanent normal trade relations (PNTR) and Congress would likely approve the bill by a simple majority when it reconvenes in December.

At the Apec summit, Bush was expected to greet fellow leaders, including Chinese President Hu Jintao and Russian President Vladimir Putin, with whom he met briefly Wednesday during a stopover in Moscow.

Putin and Bush were expected to ink a bilateral trade deal Sunday for Russia's own accession to the WTO although Moscow still must navigate multilateral requirements before joining the trading club.

Although the Apec summit is primarily an economic meeting, US officials also are meeting with key allies on the sidelines to strategize a restart of six-nation talks with North Korea on its nuclear programme, made more urgent by Pyongyang's nuclear test last month.

Bush acknowledged in Singapore that North Korea "took an encouraging step when it agreed to restart the six-party talks."

However, in a speech Thursday, he highlighted the dangers of a nuclear North Korea and urged allies to stand united in attempts to enforce punitive UN sanctions and force Pyongyang to abandon the programme.

"The most imminent threat of nuclear proliferation comes from North Korea," said Bush, addressing Singapore government leaders, dignitaries and students at the National University of Singapore.

"The greatest danger is that terrorists can get their hands on weapons of mass destruction to blackmail free nations or end up killing on an unimaginable scale," Bush said Thursday in the only scheduled speech of his weeklong Asian visit.

man with no head · 17-11-2006, 07:03 PM

Amazing:

Change this:

Quote:

However, in a speech Thursday, he highlighted the dangers of a nuclear North Korea and urged allies to stand united in attempts to enforce punitive UN sanctions and force Pyongyang to abandon the programme.

Into this:

Quote:

However, in a speech Thursday, he highlighted the dangers of a nuclear Iraq and urged allies to stand united in attempts to enforce punitive UN sanctions and force Baghdad to abandon the programme.

And hundreds of thousands of people would be alive today and we'd be $500 billion less in debt.

Except that NK has no oil and has powerful allies. So we pick on the weak instead.

Milkman · 17-11-2006, 08:40 PM

There are many similarities it seems (of course I'm not an expert).

Inter-agency fighting.

Civilians making decisions with the "8,000 mile screw driver."

Lying to the public.

An out of touch DoD leader (Rumsfeld) and DoD Deputy Secretary (Wolfowitz) who went in short of hundreds of thousands of troops short.

Not listening to the JCS and other Generals.

the CPA which failed terribly as Paul Bremer tried to emulate McArthur and had 20 people directly reporting to him.

An insurgency that adapts, is determined.

A weakening public support.

man with no head · 17-11-2006, 09:50 PM

And there are oil fields around Vietnam (in the coastal waters) aren't there?

Milkman · 18-11-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surasak

And there are oil fields around Vietnam (in the coastal waters) aren't there?

Good cut.

Yes, off of the coast of Vung Tau.

There are platforms and there is some exploration and drilling going on, also.

17-11-2006, 06:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
William Senior Member Last Online: Today 03:01 AM Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In jail Posts: 5,862	Bush: Iraq could be the next Vietnam Bush: Iraq could be the next Vietnam Hanoi (dpa) - On his first visit to Vietnam, US President George W Bush said Friday that the communist country where the United States once fought a doomed war offers hopeful lessons for the unpopular war in Iraq. "I guess my first reaction is history has a long march to it and that societies change and relationships can constantly be altered to the good," Bush said. He repeated that the United States must not withdraw troops from Iraq before its infant government is stable, saying, "We'll succeed unless we quit." The 1973 US withdrawal of troops without victory in the Vietnam War represents a landmark humiliation for many of its citizens, but Bush - who arrived Friday for a summit of Asia-Pacific leaders - offered a sunnier view, noting that Vietnam today is prosperous and has good relations with the United States, now Vietnam's largest export market. "It shows how hopeful the world can be and how people can reconcile and move beyond past difficulties for the common good," he said after lunching with Australian Prime Minister John Howard. It was inevitable that Bush would face comparisons with the current war in Iraq as he visits Vietnam, the previous country where the United States faced an unpopular war. More than 58,000 American soldiers and 3 million Vietnamese died before the United States withdrew its troops in 1973. Communist North Vietnamese forces two years later defeated the US-backed South Vietnam regime, and the country has been communist-run ever since. In the 3-year-old occupation of Iraq after a US-led invasion to topple dictator Saddam Hussein, more than 2,850 US soldiers have died and tens of thousands of Iraqis have been killed either by US actions or, increasingly, by sectarian violence. Asked whether there were lessons on Iraq to be learned from the Vietnam experience, Bush cited his oft-repeated theme that history might offer a kinder view than public opinion today. "We tend to want there to be instant success in the world, and the task in Iraq is going to take a while," Bush said. Bush arrived in Vietnam without a key trade deal that had been hoped would symbolize the new era in relations with the communist-run country. Fresh from his party's defeat in congressional elections last week, Bush was expected to focus on free trade and regional solidarity against North Korea's nuclear-weapons programme as he meets with fellow leaders of the 21-member Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) group. Bush is to meet with Vietnam's communist leadership Friday, celebrating the country's approval to enter the World Trade Organization (WTO). He was also expected to sign a key bilateral deal Sunday paving the way for Russia's eventual entry into the 150-member world trading club. "The expansion of trade is the most lasting path to prosperity," Bush said Thursday in Singapore, adding that Apec has a "vital role to play" in pushing for the revival of the global trade talks. Bush's first trip to Vietnam highlights a new era as the country takes its place on the world stage by hosting Apec and joining the WTO. But the celebrations have been tarnished by the embarrassing defeat in the US House of Representatives on Monday of the bill to normalize trade relations between the two countries. The bill failed to get the required two-thirds majority to pass without debate. US Trade Representative Susan Schwab downplayed the measure's initial defeat, saying there is "strong bilateral support" for permanent normal trade relations (PNTR) and Congress would likely approve the bill by a simple majority when it reconvenes in December. At the Apec summit, Bush was expected to greet fellow leaders, including Chinese President Hu Jintao and Russian President Vladimir Putin, with whom he met briefly Wednesday during a stopover in Moscow. Putin and Bush were expected to ink a bilateral trade deal Sunday for Russia's own accession to the WTO although Moscow still must navigate multilateral requirements before joining the trading club. Although the Apec summit is primarily an economic meeting, US officials also are meeting with key allies on the sidelines to strategize a restart of six-nation talks with North Korea on its nuclear programme, made more urgent by Pyongyang's nuclear test last month. Bush acknowledged in Singapore that North Korea "took an encouraging step when it agreed to restart the six-party talks." However, in a speech Thursday, he highlighted the dangers of a nuclear North Korea and urged allies to stand united in attempts to enforce punitive UN sanctions and force Pyongyang to abandon the programme. "The most imminent threat of nuclear proliferation comes from North Korea," said Bush, addressing Singapore government leaders, dignitaries and students at the National University of Singapore. "The greatest danger is that terrorists can get their hands on weapons of mass destruction to blackmail free nations or end up killing on an unimaginable scale," Bush said Thursday in the only scheduled speech of his weeklong Asian visit.

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17-11-2006, 08:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
Milkman Gone Off Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: shelf Posts: 9,584	There are many similarities it seems (of course I'm not an expert). Inter-agency fighting. Civilians making decisions with the "8,000 mile screw driver." Lying to the public. An out of touch DoD leader (Rumsfeld) and DoD Deputy Secretary (Wolfowitz) who went in short of hundreds of thousands of troops short. Not listening to the JCS and other Generals. the CPA which failed terribly as Paul Bremer tried to emulate McArthur and had 20 people directly reporting to him. An insurgency that adapts, is determined. A weakening public support.

17-11-2006, 09:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
man with no head Somewhere Travelling Last Online: 11-08-2007 07:39 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,424	And there are oil fields around Vietnam (in the coastal waters) aren't there?

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