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bkkandrew

There is eveything wrong about excluding a section of society from voting based on their non-ownership or non-rental of a house.

Jet Gorgon

^ Aiya! Soon you'll be saying that convicted felons should be allowed to vote, too.

bkkandrew

^Before we move on to that, perhaps you could indicate one way or another if you agree with me on the principle of not excluding those unable to afford a home from democracy?

sabang

It is very non partisan of you to bring this to our attention booner- Alabama is a Republican state after all.

Texpat

Not being able to afford a home does not render someone homeless. There's this newfangled arrangement where you can rent from someone else on a monthly basis. It works pretty well for a lot of people.

Interesting ... never thought about the homeless vote.

What if they're under the railroad trestle tonight and behind the loading docks of the WalMart in an adjacent town tomorrow? Where do they register?

If you let folks vote without requiring an address, aren't you merely welcoming fraud?

bkkandrew

^Affording a home can mean by way of rent or purchase.

If the most 'democratic' and 'advanced' state on Earth cannot find a way of ensuring that citizens, regardless of their housing arrangements, are given the opportunity to vote, then it would cast a shameful shadow indeed.

Texpat

What do you recommend? How is it done in your superior democracy?

How can you assure a person who claims he is homeless won't be snapped up by frauds and repeatedly sold to the next town over?

What would stop people from voting in their hometown and the place where they work?

bkkandrew

^I believe the homeless can lodge their National Insurance (similar to you Social Security) numbers with the local council and be assigned a voting district. All votors are crossed off the list as they enter the polling station. The unique identifying number prevents double registration.

Jaysus - if they can manage it in third-world countries, where there are many homeless, why not in the most 'advanced' nation on Earth?

Texpat

Your condescending tone is unbecoming.
Not all Americans have a social security number -- especially true for illegals (~12 million).
Maybe you'll offer them a vote too? Is that what your superior democracy does?
Perhaps Americans are simply more thorough and conscientious and realize excluding homeless because they're few in number and impossible to verify is a small price to pay in compromising validity of the election.

bkkandrew

I answered your question. If you find that condescending, then perhaps you are not used to having your questions answered?

Are you sure, why wouldn't they have one?

No, why would you offer the vote to anyone but your own citizens?

Have you noticed what has being happening in the past year? Tent cities, people sleeping in cars, etc., etc. How convenient to exclude them and their views from the democratic process. I am really surprised that someone can hold these views, I thought they belonged in the dim and distant past.

sabang

Australia is the opposite extreme- not only do homeless folk have the right to vote, but they- like every other voting age citizen- is required to vote by law.

Can't say I'm sold on either system. Voting rights should not be attached to your financial status or current home situation, rather by your citizenship. But then neither should you be compelled to vote if you don't want to imo- the lazy or apathetic have their rights too.

__________________
To err is human. To blame someone else is politics.

Texpat

^^ Seems we're both pissing into the wind.

Google homeless voters and you'll find several stories like this where local officials are bending over backward to offer homeless a chance to vote.

"Homeless people who registered to vote in Colorado risk being ejected from voter rolls if they don’t pick up a confirmation letter sent by their county clerk. The problem has less to do with partisan politics than with the nature of homelessness and the complexities of life without a permanent address. And, given those complexities, advocates estimate only about half of homeless people cast their vote.

Colorado law accommodates homeless voters by allowing them to register using any physical address. “It can be a park, a street corner or wherever they intend to return to in the evening,” says Meg Costello, public policy analyst with the Colorado Coalition for the Homeless. But the would-be voter must also provide a mailing address like a post office box, a shelter or a resource center such as the St. Francis Center in downtown Denver."

Colorado Independent » Elections bureaucracy jeopardizes half of homeless voter registrations


I'll say again, without accountability, you invite fraud.

bkkandrew

^So, as Jet didn't answer, could you - do you think excluding the homeless from voting is a good thing?

Texpat

I'll repeat what I said in post #65.

I think every US citizen should be afforded a vote. But, if there's no way to account for a particular block, it should be reconsidered or reworked. Obviously many places have figured out a way to account for homeless.

Bloody clever, those yanks, eh?

bkkandrew

^So, that's a yes to being in favour of the homeless being disqualified from voting, but as long as fraud can be prevented (which is fine, they need to prevent fraud on absentee ballots and regular ones too).

I wonder if Jet will agree...

Norton

No slam against Australia but I think there are a lot of folks as in the US who really have such a poor understanding of what or who they are voting for it would be better if they just stayed home and not vote at all. Many of these folks in the US don't bother to vote anyway. Making it mandatory may skew the results of a close election for all the wrong reasons.

Any indication this happens in Australia?

__________________
There is such a thing as a nation being so right that it does not need to convince others by force that it is right.

Woodrow Wilson

sabang

Nothing significant that I've read about Norton, although the parties that get benefited most are doubtless the 'loonie' parties that have no hope anyway. And of course some voters just don't bother filling in their ballots properly, so no vote is registered anyway.


Yep.

Boon Mee

In Cleveland - Dead Voters Submit Ballots From Beyond.

"Now, on the eve of an historic election -- when every vote in Cuyahoga County is considered crucial -- our NewsChannel5 investigation has once again uncovered thousands of dead voters still on the rolls, and ballots still being cast from beyond. The exact number of dead voters is difficult to say this time because Ohio's Secretary of State issued a directive to Boards of Elections across the state to withhold dates of births in public records requests. That information is important in positively identifying dead voters."

OK...

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GooMaiRoo

I don't think the Republicans would have the audacity to steal this election electronically. There will be massive civil unrest if this occurs. The only way to know if this is a stolen election to look at the early evening exit polls, about 7-8pm and compare them to the final results. CNN.COM historically has had good early exit polls. Polling firms will adjust their final exit polls at the end of the night. The early evening polls in the Kerry-Bush 2004 election told me that something fishy was going on. From a 2006 article by Robert Kennedy, Jr:

"For its nationwide poll, Edison/Mitofsky selected a random subsample of 12,219 voters — approximately six times larger than those normally used in national polls — driving the margin of error down to approximately plus or minus one percent. On the evening of the vote, reporters at each of the major networks were briefed by pollsters at 7:54 P.M. Kerry, they were informed, had an insurmountable lead and would win by a rout: at least 309 electoral votes to Bush's 174, with fifty-five too close to call. In London, Prime Minister Tony Blair went to bed contemplating his relationship with President-elect Kerry. As the last polling stations closed on the West Coast, exit polls showed Kerry ahead in ten of eleven battleground states — including commanding leads in Ohio and Florida."




Was the 2004 Election Stolen? : Rolling Stone

Jet Gorgon

Sorry, missed this thread for awhile. I thought the whole point was as long as you have a fixed address and can prove it, you can vote. Look at Acorn giving phony utility bill statements to college kids so they can vote in the place they go to school and then go home and vote there, too.
I remember voting times in Thailand. Half of the people on Samui vanished to go home and vote. They all needed their ID cards to do so. Fine.
And face it, as noted above, most people don't even know who's in the race or what the issues are. Get Acorn or its ilk rounding up homeless, giving them free coffee and smokes and telling them to check Obama on the ballot is not democratic IMO.