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DrivingForce · 16-09-2008, 12:38 AM

the more this comes into focus the more I see the dems in a real conundrum.. they can't even go at her with Hillary because it will be as thin as rice paper knowing what's truly behind it..
there is also the fact that Hillary was not even considered for the VP nomination so to have her go after Palin now at this point is just going to look like a cat fight with Hillary already being 2 steps lower on the ladder making anything she has to say effectively moot, how can it carry any real weight with her in that position?.. as well it is going to be viewed by her supporters as them just using her now that they need her rather than when they should have chosen her..

this is very tell tale as to how they (Obama and Biden) can handle this because right now the turmoil of them being on their back heel on this one issue is speaking volumes towards their ability and experience to handle any such future issues while in office that might put them out of the comfort zone they were in before her nomination.

if they get into office there will be times (3:00am call) when they won't have the luxury of several weeks to sit back and figure strategies given the fluid nature of the circumstances. in my eyes this fumbling with this one issue (minor in the real scheme of things such as world policy) all this time without answers also demonstrated a total lack of planning and forethought as to "what if?" when the reps did choose a woman and why the dems didn't anticipate this contingency in the first place with a game plan..

liken this to a 9/11 and for me it's a deep concern...

here they've been making all of these condemnations of Bush's on the fly policies and the like all the while struggling with how to deal with one little Alaskan beauty queen..pretty thin...

Jet Gorgon · 16-09-2008, 06:23 AM

^ Ya, that's pretty funny. They denigrate Palin for being "a beauty pagenat also ran" but they just can't keep the bitch down. 555555555555

kingwilly · 16-09-2008, 07:14 AM

this is an interesting blog about sarah palin...

Quote:

An Astonishingly Arrogant V.P. Selection

It may be John McCain's birthday, but it seems like he's the one giving out gifts today. The selection of Palin doesn't simply, as others have pointed out, undermine the notion that Obama is too inexperienced to be president; it gives Obama the chance to actually take the edge on national security while making John McCain's age a central issue of the campaign.
Whatever the political calculations involved in picking a veep, the most important qualification for the vice presidency is the ability to assume the presidency in a crisis. Given that of the last 12 presidents, three have either died or resigned, this is hardly a hypothetical consideration--in fact, given that McCain is 72, it is a very real consideration. Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, and Gerald Ford all faced multiple foreign policy crises immediately upon assuming office, whether it was the onset of the Cold War, the North's invasion of South Korea, the Vietnam War, or the withering of détente and the resulting increase in nuclear tension with the Soviet Union. The next president will have to finish the denuclearization of North Korea; prevent the nuclearization of Iran; organize a departure from Iraq that maintains some level of stability; defeat a resurgent Taliban in Afghanistan; establish, nurture, and make the most of a relationship with Pakistan's new leaders; and confront a revanchist Russia while preserving and enhancing its cooperation on nonproliferation and climate change--to say nothing of working with India, China, or our allies.
Could Sarah Palin conceivably manage this task? Her tenure as a small-town mayor and Alaska governor has given her no foreign policy experience whatsoever. True, Obama has little foreign policy experience either, as McCain and others have pointed out again and again. But during his time in national office he has demonstrated a clear commitment to the most pressing issues in American foreign policy. Take nuclear proliferation. Early in his tenure on the Foreign Relations Committee, Obama joined Richard Lugar's efforts to secure weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union. Obama's first trip abroad as senator was to Russia and Ukraine to learn more about those efforts firsthand. In 2007, he cosponsored legislation with Senator Chuck Hagel calling for ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and negotiation of a fissile material cut-off treaty. And he was the first major presidential candidate to embrace the steps laid out in 2007 by Sam Nunn, Bill Perry, George Shultz, and Henry Kissinger through which the United States would fight nuclear terrorism, reinvigorate the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, and ultimately eliminate nuclear weapons.
Perhaps more important than the experience they embodied, these efforts demonstrate that Obama has a worldview. Obama recognizes the greatness and uniqueness of the United States, but he does not translate that exceptionalism into dominance or isolationism as conservatives often have.Instead, he sees it as the basis for U.S. leadership. He has laid out that worldview in myriad speeches and articles, and he has surrounded himself with pragmatists who have a record of translating that understanding of America's role into concrete gains for our national security. By contrast, there is no indication that Palin has even shades of a foreign policy worldview; a Nexis search doesn't turn up a single article that she has written on international affairs.
McCain undoubtedly thinks he has his national security bases covered; picking Palin shows that, unlike Obama, he doesn't need an eminence grise like Biden to add heft to his ticket. But surely McCain recognizes that Palin may have to fill his shoes someday. By choosing her anyway, he has demonstrated hubris well beyond anything Obama has displayed on his most arrogant day: a belief that he can master unforeseen circumstances, physical and otherwise, that are well beyond his control. This is insulting and dangerous and suggests that McCain may want to think twice before accusing Obama of putting his personal ambition ahead of the national interest.
No doubt Michelle is right that the Obama-Biden team will have to be careful attacking Palin's frighteningly thin resume and tenuous grasp of foreign policy. But surely a campaign that has been charged with being too naïve to manage rogue state dictators can have a bit of fun with the idea that a one-time Miss Congeniality could effectively face down Vladimir Putin, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or Kim Jong Il. Surely, Obama's "eight is enough" quip ought to apply not only to President Bush's economic and foreign policy travesties, but to the elevation of mediocrity that has characterized his appointment of Michael Brown to FEMA and his nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court. And surely we can agree that if the McCain campaign was desperate to transparently court voters put off by Hillary Clinton's loss, there is no dearth of women with far greater intellectual, executive, and political abilities--abilities that would allow them to assume the presidency in a heartbeat.
--Peter Scoblic
Related: More on Sarah Palin from TNR

Posted: Friday, August 29, 2008 4:35 PM with 124 comment(s)

An Astonishingly Arrogant V.P. Selection - The Plank

Mr Earl · 16-09-2008, 08:01 AM

^Yep interesting, if Palin as VP is astonishingly arrogant, what does that make Obama as Presidential nominee?
Obama's resume is even thinner than Palin's! Now that's astonishingly arrogant!

sabang · 16-09-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Obama's resume is even thinner than Palin's! Now that's astonishingly arrogant!

Did you bother reading the article above Earl? That is manifestly not the case.

The relief from Republicans is palpable, even ecstatic, because of the sex appeal added by Palin to the tired old McCain campaign. Fair enough.

I don't see much hatred of Palin myself, something that the angst ridden Republican Right is quick to charge. There are some of course staunchly opposed to her 'pro-life' views, in particular.

But there is growing unease about Palins obvious juniority. Given all the hype, and the 'post convention bounce', I would say this is inevitable. There is also the growing realisation that some of the claims she has made, or have been made about her, are hyped.

A maverick choice indeed, but I doubt the US Presidential elections has ever involved such an unqualified candidate before- at least for a major party. Heck, until being voted Governor of Alaska less than two years ago she would have been considered junior to myself and several other BM's here.

Obviously Republican supporters want to see their party win, and the neo-con mentality is to win at all costs, worry about the rest later. But I would genuinely like to be a fly on the wall and hear what the Republican 'old guard' are saying about this in private.

Their silence is admirable however.

The one positive thing I can say about the McCain/Palin ticket is that it is a clear departure from the PNAC/ neo-con cabal that dominated the Bush administration.

Jet Gorgon · 16-09-2008, 11:34 AM

The difference between Palin and Obama is that Palin has common sense and she's not afraid to use it, even if it might offend the lefty elitists.

AntRobertson · 16-09-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texpat

Yes, a furious attempt to get the word out about the shedevil Bush-lover. Unfortunately, she seems to have vaulted her party to the fore and took the novelty out of Obamamania.

Busy topic indeed.

But you're an 'independent' right?

Anyways not so fast, looks like stormy seas ahead for the good ship Lollipop:

Quote:

Palin's halo starts to slip 9:10AM Tuesday Sep 16, 2008

WASHINGTON - There were growing signs yesterday that the "Sarah Palin effect" is starting to wear off and that the Republican candidate, John McCain, has peaked.

Democrats took heart from four national opinion polls which show that despite the bounce caused by interest in Mrs Palin, Mr McCain now leads by an average of just 1.6 points, his smallest margin since the Republican convention.

The latest polls come amid a flurry of critical news reports into Mrs Palin which cast doubt on some of her claims to be a squeaky clean reformist.

Senator McCain's claims that his running mate had not sought special interest funding from Congress have been shown to be wrong.

It emerged yesterday that she had asked the US to fund US$453m worth of projects in oil-rich Alaska for the past two years.

Among the requests was US$4.5m for an airport serving fewer than 100 people on a Bering Sea island and US$9m to help Alaska's already hugely profitable oil companies. Democrats mocked the Alaska governor as "an earmark queen".

The disclosures come on top of evidence that her administration also held on to more than US$500m in federal funds for a much-derided "bridge to nowhere" which she maintains she vetoed.

For two weeks the McCain campaign has wallowed in the media's obsession with Governor Palin.

A huge bounce in the opinion polls followed, with women especially declaring that they were changing their allegiance because they admired her so much.
But that appears to be changing as the focus of the election turns to the economy, especially in northern states.

In Iowa, a poll in the Des Moines Register gives Barack Obama a comfortable lead of 12 points.

In traditionally Republican southern states, however, the McCain campaign remains strong (he has a 20-point lead in South Carolina).
In the final weeks of the race for the White House, both sides are stepping up the attack, with events on Wall Street expected to provide the main focus.
A cacophony of news greets voters every day, including video press releases, blogs, and attack ads on television, on top of newspapers and television.
The Obama campaign is also spending tens of millions of dollars on advertising in an attempt to dominate the news agenda.

The McCain campaign, with less money to spend, relies on cable news channels to give free air time to the attack ads it releases.

The Obama campaign was quick to seize on comments by Mr McCain in Florida yesterday, which it said portrayed him as fundamentally out of touch with voters.
Speaking at a "town hall" meeting with supporters, he said that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong" before adding: "These are very, very difficult times and I promise you we will never put America in this position again."

- INDEPENDENT

Norton · 16-09-2008, 12:04 PM

The splash Palin made following her surprise selection is fading fast. Headlines have shifted from Sarah to the "Black Monday" stock loss of 504 points the largest since 9/11 and the fact she still refuses to take questions from the media at her campaign appearances.

The spotlight will be as it was when Clinton ran against father Bush. The economy.

McCain at his own admission, knows little about the economy and Palin will be no help.

Dems will focus their efforts on showing how McCains policies on the economy are exactly the same as GWB's.

Maybe now the two will debate the real issue.

It's the economy stupid!!!

Mr Earl · 16-09-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabang

Did you bother reading the article above Earl? That is manifestly not the case.

So having a "world view" and being on a foreign relations committee for a couple of months makes Obama qualified! Ok!

Palins 8 years of executive experience in AK certainly pales in comparison.
Honestly she's been a leader all the while Obama was still trying to figure out whether he was black or white!

raycarey · 16-09-2008, 12:24 PM

i looks like palin's got a tax problem...specifically over the outrageous $17,000 she took in per diem payments----for staying in her own home......but putting that aside for a moment.....i hope she paid tax on those payments if she was required to do so.

Quote:

At issue is the location of the governor's "tax home," which the Internal Revenue Service defines as the location where most of the individual's business is performed. Palin stayed in her Wasilla home 312 nights or 54 percent of the time period when she claimed the per diem, from Dec. 4, 2006, until June 30, 2008. She drove 45 miles to a state office building in Anchorage to conduct business. Her staff has said she performs most of her work from the Anchorage office.

That would appear to make Wasilla the governor's tax home, which would mean that under IRS regulations, any per diem she received for staying in that home is considered taxable. </p>

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

raycarey · 16-09-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Palins 8 years of executive experience

yeah, we know....

britmaveric · 16-09-2008, 12:26 PM

Don't pay taxes on per diem - its work related Ray.

raycarey · 16-09-2008, 12:27 PM

brit you've proven many times that you have very little knowledge of things american, so i'd suggest you read the link.

one can only hope that you know more about your own country...but i have my doubts.

Quote:

That would appear to make Wasilla the governor's tax home, which would mean that under IRS regulations, any per diem she received for staying in that home is considered taxable.

if she hadn't been such a greedy bitch and tried to screw the alaskan taxpayers out of that $17K (for staying in her own home for god's sake), she wouldn't be facing these allegations right now.

Bugs · 16-09-2008, 12:30 PM

I would agree some of the luster has worn off the Palin pick. But she did wonders to turn this race on it's head. Sure there is a chance that the gains McCain has made since her selection will eventually all be eaten away. But I don't think any other VP pick (out of those mentioned time and again as options) would have place McCain ahead in the weeks after the conventions.

Hot off the presses:
The Associated Press: In Palin, GOP sees chances with swing voters

Not only has she helped to shore up the red team base:

Quote:

Palin's greatest gift to McCain so far appears to have been in shoring up support for him among core conservatives, who have held the Arizona senator at arm's length but embraced the Alaska governor enthusiastically. She's a darling of the GOP base for her conservative positions, most notably her strong opposition to abortion in almost every case, telegraphed vividly each time she appears with her infant son Trig, who has Down syndrome.

She also seems to be helping with independent and some ex-Clinton supporters:

Quote:

Beyond that, though, Palin is giving McCain an opening with a crucial group of swing voters — many of them women like Thibault — who espouse traditional values but are working class and mostly concerned about the economy.

Some of them had previously supported Clinton because she connected with them on pocketbook issues.

No doubt McCain-Palin won't get the majority of ex-Clinton supporters, but they will get some, and as tight as this race seems to be every bit helps.

And this artical is even giving Palin some credit for attracting Reagan Democrats:

Quote:

Like the so-called "Reagan Democrats" of the 1980s, they are economically liberal and socially conservative. In bad economic times, they lean toward Democrats who promise help on key pocketbook issues, but they're drawn to Republicans because of their stances on cultural issues.

More on McCain-Palin's growing appeal to the independents:
Independents swing toward McCain - John P. Avlon - Politico.com

Quote:

In the wake of Sarah Palin, John McCainhas opened up a 15-point lead among independents, according to a new Gallup Poll — and Barack Obama has a real problem.

Norton · 16-09-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugs

But she did wonders to turn this race on it's head.

Fully agree. She did pull the party together. Also, the bump in the polls will subside in a few days.

She will now have to prove she was a good choice by showing she has what it takes to play in the big league.

Texpat · 16-09-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

i hope she paid tax on those payments

Per diem is not taxed, Ray.
Brit is right and you're angry.

raycarey · 16-09-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texpat

Per diem is not taxed, Ray.

normally it isn't.
but when palin decided to screw the taxpayers of alaska out of 17K, it seems like she she opened herself up to a legitimate tax liability.

why doesn't she just release her returns and let the american people and the IRS take a look?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texpat

you're angry.

oh man...far and away the angriest poster on TD (and quite possibly the angriest person in thailand) is calling someone else angry.

aging one · 16-09-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norton

She will now have to prove she was a good choice by showing she has what it takes to play in the big league.

We will soon find out she cant hit the fastball or the hard curve and she will be sent back down to triple A ball.

raycarey · 16-09-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aging one

triple A ball

triple A?

she purely bush league.

pun obviously intended.

aging one · 16-09-2008, 01:05 PM

Do you think this could be John McCain looking for Sarah Palin. And sorry.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 604x401.

16-09-2008, 12:38 AM	#841 (permalink)
DrivingForce I am in Jail Last Online: 30-10-2009 12:02 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 3,556	the more this comes into focus the more I see the dems in a real conundrum.. they can't even go at her with Hillary because it will be as thin as rice paper knowing what's truly behind it.. there is also the fact that Hillary was not even considered for the VP nomination so to have her go after Palin now at this point is just going to look like a cat fight with Hillary already being 2 steps lower on the ladder making anything she has to say effectively moot, how can it carry any real weight with her in that position?.. as well it is going to be viewed by her supporters as them just using her now that they need her rather than when they should have chosen her.. this is very tell tale as to how they (Obama and Biden) can handle this because right now the turmoil of them being on their back heel on this one issue is speaking volumes towards their ability and experience to handle any such future issues while in office that might put them out of the comfort zone they were in before her nomination. if they get into office there will be times (3:00am call) when they won't have the luxury of several weeks to sit back and figure strategies given the fluid nature of the circumstances. in my eyes this fumbling with this one issue (minor in the real scheme of things such as world policy) all this time without answers also demonstrated a total lack of planning and forethought as to "what if?" when the reps did choose a woman and why the dems didn't anticipate this contingency in the first place with a game plan.. liken this to a 9/11 and for me it's a deep concern... here they've been making all of these condemnations of Bush's on the fly policies and the like all the while struggling with how to deal with one little Alaskan beauty queen..pretty thin... Last edited by DrivingForce : 16-09-2008 at 12:46 AM. Reason: addendum

16-09-2008, 12:04 PM	#848 (permalink)
Norton Days Work Done! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Roiet Posts: 12,966	The splash Palin made following her surprise selection is fading fast. Headlines have shifted from Sarah to the "Black Monday" stock loss of 504 points the largest since 9/11 and the fact she still refuses to take questions from the media at her campaign appearances. The spotlight will be as it was when Clinton ran against father Bush. The economy. McCain at his own admission, knows little about the economy and Palin will be no help. Dems will focus their efforts on showing how McCains policies on the economy are exactly the same as GWB's. Maybe now the two will debate the real issue. It's the economy stupid!!! __________________ There is such a thing as a nation being so right that it does not need to convince others by force that it is right. Woodrow Wilson Last edited by Norton : 16-09-2008 at 12:36 PM.

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16-09-2008, 06:23 AM	#842 (permalink)
Jet Gorgon Take No Prisoners Barbie Last Online: Today 02:02 AM Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Near Libbies Posts: 13,293	^ Ya, that's pretty funny. They denigrate Palin for being "a beauty pagenat also ran" but they just can't keep the bitch down. 555555555555

16-09-2008, 08:01 AM	#844 (permalink)
Mr Earl worm man Last Online: Today 05:48 AM Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ranong Posts: 5,912	^Yep interesting, if Palin as VP is astonishingly arrogant, what does that make Obama as Presidential nominee? Obama's resume is even thinner than Palin's! Now that's astonishingly arrogant!

16-09-2008, 11:34 AM	#846 (permalink)
Jet Gorgon Take No Prisoners Barbie Last Online: Today 02:02 AM Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Near Libbies Posts: 13,293	The difference between Palin and Obama is that Palin has common sense and she's not afraid to use it, even if it might offend the lefty elitists.

16-09-2008, 12:26 PM	#852 (permalink)
britmaveric nid aur yw popeth melyn Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pattaya Posts: 4,135	Don't pay taxes on per diem - its work related Ray.

16-09-2008, 01:05 PM	#860 (permalink)
aging one Elite Member Last Online: Yesterday 07:17 PM Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,703	Do you think this could be John McCain looking for Sarah Palin. And sorry. This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 604x401.

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