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Old 03-07-2008, 12:41 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sabang View Post
You predictably fall into line to defend all things Amerkin tex
Guess you missed this part:

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Originally Posted by Tex
Toyota makes small cars, (and better cars IMO)
But they are a bit like beer cans.
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
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^ as long as you don't say that about Lexus . one of my favourite cars.
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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But they are a bit like beer cans.
Full of piss, sometimes found half-full with cigarette butts in them, and about 6 of them currently parked in my refrigerator?
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The last six cars I've owned: Toyota, Honda, Toyota, Toyota, Ford, Toyota.

But I would prefer Coupe DeVille, Olds 88, Crown Victoria ...
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:55 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The world wants vehicles that get a zillion mpg, require no maintenance, go anywhere, last forever, and cant depreciate. The motor city twats have failed to deliver.
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:55 PM   #26 (permalink)
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The problem with GM and Ford has been their desire to grab the high margin segments of their main market (the US). This has driven the focus on big vehicles, and has also meant every time gas prices spike they get handed their ass.

Not to give too much credit to Honda/Toyota. When they really made a push into the US market they lucked into great timing - the last "oil crisis". They did not make small fuel efficient cars because they felt that was what American wanted. They made them because that was what they knew how to make.

The margins in the small car market are far worse than the margins in the big tank marget, thus providing less motivation for GM/Ford to improve the weakest segment of their line-up - whereas the opposite is true for Toyota/Honda.

Not to be misunderstood here, I am not attempting to say GM/Ford don't deserve to be in the shit right now, or for that matter that the sucess of Honda/Toyota has been all luck. Regardless of the size of the cars, or the fuel milage/ gas price issue, Toyota/Honda have proven time and again they build to a very high quality standard at reasonable prices. The same cannot be said of GM/Ford.

That being said I must confess that the car I own in the US is anything but fuel efficient and is a US made vehicle. Even if gas hits $25 per gallon I ain't givin up my 5.0L torque monster.
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Old 03-07-2008, 01:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
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About what I said. But much prettier.
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Old 03-07-2008, 02:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Texpat View Post
Hello. It's what people wanted.

I'm amused by the notion that people were only buying what was available -- because that's all that was available.

When gas is $2 a gallon, gimme a barge over a fcuking beer can anyday. The dynamic has shifted, so too will US automakers.
Yeah, and they're shifting right now. Ford made the announcement on product changes a few weeks ago, to stop producing SUVs, and reduce the F-150. The latter is...was...America's number #1 selling vehicle in the USA - until now.

I have thought that most people who drove SUVs didn't need them. The same for the F-150.

GM will be around, IMO. But I don't think they'll be where they were in the past. I believe they've been moving down the chain for quite some time now.
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Old 03-07-2008, 02:17 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by peterpan View Post
GM has survived or years on the back of its finance division, now as sales have tailed off even that hasn't generated enough cash to beak even.
Fukcem,the writing was on the wall years ago for the barges they build but they kept on building them anyway.
A couple of difficulties with this:
  1. GM sold the majority of GMAC (the once-profitable finance arm) in 2007.
  2. GMAC is, itself, is in even more danger of going bust. See:
http://teakdoor.com/business-finance...tml#post655922 (Thailand's Baht, Peso --- Decline)
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Old 03-07-2008, 02:27 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AntRobertson
Technically speaking you'd have to be spouting BS to be a marketing guy. It's what they do.
Think you're confusing marketing with sales. Big difference! Marketing is a key ingredient in successful enterprises. Strategic marketing; the ability to look into the future, move the company to produce the product and promote the product as a must have is the role of marketing. Strategic marketing is where GM has failed miserably as compared to the Japanese.

Will GM go bust? Maybe not but it may become another Chrysler. Correct that, Daimler Chrysler.
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Old 03-07-2008, 02:33 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
GM is performing best is in it's international operations
Which will prop up GM in the few years that the US market will be in the pooh.
Things will improve, but not till 2010.
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Old 03-07-2008, 02:57 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spin
Which will prop up GM in the few years that the US market will be in the pooh. Things will improve, but not till 2010.
GM Corp is in need of a major restructure in the way it does business. Currently way too many decisions regarding major initiatives must be approved in Detroit. If GM can retool their thinking to give more autonomy to their global operations as have Toyota, they may remain a major player in the industry. GM must stop characterizing itself as a US company and think globally. Although GM has made some improvement in this regard, the big boys in Detroit seem reluctant to give up their power for the betterment of their shareholders and customers.
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Old 03-07-2008, 02:58 PM   #33 (permalink)
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^ Ya, Norts. The mgmt strategies need help but the weak balance sheet restricts them big time.

^^ Kinda agree. Spin. Another downer for GM and the US automakers is the dam unions. More pay, benefits, huge pension plans. Fek, no wonder these cos can't focus on new ideas and products. The unions just demand $$ and can't see that the market is crumbling.
The company faces major competition, and sales are turning sour big time with bling-rate gas prices. Hybrid cars? They suck. Electric? OK, good for commuting to and from the subway station. Ethanol fuel-driven cars? 555 Biggest lame fuel alternative ever.
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:02 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bkkandrew View Post
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Originally Posted by peterpan View Post
GM has survived or years on the back of its finance division, now as sales have tailed off even that hasn't generated enough cash to beak even.
Fukcem,the writing was on the wall years ago for the barges they build but they kept on building them anyway.
A couple of difficulties with this:
  1. GM sold the majority of GMAC (the once-profitable finance arm) in 2007.
  2. GMAC is, itself, is in even more danger of going bust. See:
http://teakdoor.com/business-finance...tml#post655922 (Thailand's Baht, Peso --- Decline)
Right, I had forgotten they had sold that div, right before they initiated their no interest financing.
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:10 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
Ya, Norts. The mgmt strategies need help but the weak balance sheet restricts them big time.
I agree. Financial weakness is certainly a limiting factor. Still not too late to right the ship though. Changing the corporate culture at GM is going to be painful but without change GM will become an also ran in the global auto industry.

I can remember many years ago there was a saying "as goes GM so goes the US economy". Jeez I hope this in no longer true.
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:22 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Didn't they have one of their major investor pull out last year after a fall-out on the board of directors for not taking a better direction ? I guess management won and lost at the end,

Delphi went down, and had to be saved or else they couldn't feed their chain to build cars,
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:37 PM   #37 (permalink)
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GM's Z score is 0.52. ie, headed for bankruptcy. The co needs new mgmt infused with making changes that lead the market, not meet it. Its got negative cash flow and is still paying a bladdy $1 dividend.
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Old 03-07-2008, 03:45 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
The Civic has never even been Honda's best-selling car before. It topped the Accord for the first time ever in May. Though the Civic is available as a fuel-sipping hybrid, gasoline-powered Civic still drove the sales trend. Kicking Tires reports, "Of the 53,299 Civics sold in May, 4,676 were hybrids." In further proof that Americans are now thinking small, the Corolla outsold the Camry for the first time last month as well.
As Autoblog comments, "Note to automakers: that would be the sound of the canary in your coal mine hitting the floor."
Great quote, this
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Old 03-07-2008, 09:12 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Hybrids are a waste of time, batteries usually only last 3-4 years and to replace them well is extremely costly. If they could get the cost down below 500quid then they might have smth. However 5-10x as much makes it not worth it.
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Old 03-07-2008, 11:47 PM   #40 (permalink)
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They are limited in use right now, but the point is they are getting better and prices will come down. High oil prices look like they're here to stay, so there is certainly a market waiting for a good hybrid or electric car.

I can well conceive a time when taxi's and delivery vehicles in places like NYC will only be hybrid or electric.
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