The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

Milkman · 09-06-2008, 06:12 PM

Folks, this is a worldwide phenomenon, and affects people all over the world. But it seems the US public, which has been used to cheap gasoline for so long is finally realizing that the days of cheap gas are over. Because so many Americans live in suburbs and commute by car to work - often long distances - the cost of going by car is a fixed expense.

This thread is for discussing what your relatives tell you and email you about their personal situation and is for articles related to gas prices, peak oil, the false political remedies, and how Americans will change their lives and habits because of higher fuel costs.

The concept of the post WWII suburb is one of the biggest mistakes that the US has made in the 20th Century, IMO.

Author and jouranlist James Kunstler makes note of this in his book, "The Geography of nowhere."

Note: gas affects different areas and income levels differently. Here is a chart:

Quote:

The Varying Impact of Gas Prices

Gas prices are high throughout the country, but how hard they hit individual families depends on income levels, which vary widely.

Map: The Varying Impact of Gas Prices - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com#

blackgang · 12-06-2008, 07:56 PM

Well fuck, check this link out for a change,,
Skousen: Gas Price Manipulationâ€”Public Needs to Demand Opening of the Gull Island Oil Field (Alaska) « tobefree

britmaveric · 12-06-2008, 09:15 PM

Amazingly yanks are sitting on a pile of oil, however unable to drill for it. What a bunch of muppets!!!

I have a feeling oil prices are artificially high because they realize their days are slowly coming to an end, better hit now because in future oil will be worthless to what it is now.

blackgang · 13-06-2008, 12:35 PM

The longer they can hold supplies from the market the longer the price per gallon will remain high,,
Let just enough get thru the refinerys to partially satisfy the market, but just keep it a little under fulfilling the peak demand and you have the consumer by the ass.
Get to far under demand and the public will think of something that does not need so much oil, or come in way over demand and the price will sink, so it is just a thing that has to be juggled and held at a certain point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Amazingly yanks are sitting on a pile of oil, however unable to drill for it. What a bunch of muppets!!!

Not UNABLE, but unwilling to start production pumping and ease the tension on the market which would tend to lower P.P.B. of crude.

britmaveric · 13-06-2008, 12:43 PM

Also believe not really supply/demand - think its commodity future speculators at work here. NEED TO SHUT THEM DOWN

Milkman · 13-06-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

At $4 per gallon, a motorist can pay $90 to fill up a Ford Explorer.

DETROIT - Even in northern Wisconsin, where midsize sport utility vehicles are as common as deer, people are starting to abandon them because of high gasoline prices.

It's one of the last places to back away from the class of SUVs, which includes the once-popular Ford Explorer and Chevrolet TrailBlazer. Some industry analysts are already declaring the midsize SUV extinct.

"They're dinosaurs. Put a fork in them," Erich Merkle, vice president of auto industry forecasting for the consulting company IRN Inc. in Grand Rapids, Mich., said in an interview.

....Midsize SUV sales were down 24 percent for the first five months of this year from the same period in 2007. The decline for May was an especially steep 38 percent, according to Autodata Corp.

Link: Is the midsize SUV dying? - Autos - MSNBC.com

As the large and mid-size SUVs sit on car lots unsold, and a lot of people try to sell the the ones they own at the same time, with demand for them low....how many of these vehicles will just be wasted? They were produced, but many won't be sold. They'll just sit I suppose.

britmaveric · 13-06-2008, 01:36 PM

Sold for cheap I'd imagine, alright if u are only going short distances.

Butterfly · 13-06-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Also believe not really supply/demand - think its commodity future speculators at work here. NEED TO SHUT THEM DOWN

what are you, some kind of commie bastard ? governments are already doing the best they can do, that is usually nothing.

Not only they should regulate the oil market, and nationalize oil corporations by seizing their assets (like the Kremlin did), but create financial market regulations to stop silly speculations. Maybe a subsidie tax on very transactions that concern oild futures contracts.

Texpat · 13-06-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milkman

At $4 per gallon, a motorist can pay $90 to fill up a Ford Explorer.

I pay 2,800 ($93) to fill my pick-up truck -- much smaller than a Ford Explorer.

I don't hear Thais calling for an end of Vigos and D-Max and Tritons.

blackgang · 13-06-2008, 04:26 PM

4X4 SUV's in some places in the states are a very necessary vehicle to own not only for convinence but for safety as well and they do not burn any more fuel than any other rig of comparable weight and horse power.
That bullshit that y'all age spouting is just that, Bullshit, If you live in a city in Florida or Georgia in the USA then you do not need one, but if you live in a village in the northern states of the country then there is times when if you do not have 4X4 then you are locked in your house unless you own a sled, and then there is another $5k that you have tied up that can only be used in snow and burns more gas per mile than your SUV.

I got rid of my Toyota SR5 4X4 and got a Honda Civic 4X4 wagon with automatic FWD and a 5 speed manual and it improved my milage from 22 MPG to 34 MPG and I could still get in and out from my house to the plowed hyway unless there was more than a foot of fresh snow.
Depends on where you live, but if you are of the mind of most know it all do gooders that want to control what everyone else does, then why don't you just ride a bicycle and try to force everyone else that lives by you to do the same, you might have to whip some ass, but you might be able to do it, or you might have all the shit kicked out of you in short order.

actually it is none of your business what other folks do or drive.

britmaveric · 13-06-2008, 09:12 PM

I guaranteed you limit future contracts, say need put 50% in than that would prevent lot these bastards from doing so. Actually I have a bad feeling that lot of pension funds/401Ks and other investments are heavily into this. I kind of fear when the bubble bursts it isnt going to be pretty.

Milkman · 15-06-2008, 04:44 PM

This article notes the possibility of $7 per gallon gas by 20012, 3.5 years away.

Quote:

Learning From the Oil Shock

The world may have arrived at the equivalent of Peak Oil. Old fields are in decline, while governments limit new oil projects. We all know that gasoline is at $4 a gallon and oil is at $135 a barrel. But if you think that's the end of the story, don't talk to economist Jeffrey Rubin of CIBC World Markets. By Rubin's reckoning, we've barely passed the halfway point on a steady march upward that will take gasoline to $7 a gallon and oil to $225 by 2012. Though there will be fluctuations, the underlying rise in prices, he says, will have pervasive and often surprising side effects.

The link above should take you to a Newsweek article written by Samualson.

Milkman · 16-06-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Sold for cheap I'd imagine, alright if u are only going short distances.

Fed and state mandates make it mandatory to have 6% to 10% of US gasoline comprised of Ethanol.

The flooding in Iowa will likely cause an increase in prices.

Quote:

Midwest floods may send gas up 15%

Soaring corn prices could increase the price of ethanol, driving up demand for oil and sending gas prices even higher. Some think it's time for Congress to act.

By David Goldman, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: June 13, 2008: 4:37 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Continued flooding in Iowa and Illinois - the nation's top two corn-growing states - is inciting fears that the cost of the high-priced crop could soar even further, driving up ethanol and gas prices, too.

Days of heavy rain across the Midwest Corn Belt region have wreaked havoc on the crop, sending front-month prices to $7.08 a bushel on the Chicago Board of Trade Friday. Corn futures have risen for seven straight trading sessions.

Since ethanol - a mandated ingredient in U.S. gasoline - is produced domestically with corn, rising crop prices could send already-record gasoline prices even higher. "The floods in the Midwest will have a major impact on ethanol," said Phil Flynn, senior market analyst at Alaron Trading in Chicago.

Gasoline in the United States is comprised of only about 6% to 10% ethanol, as mandated by federal and state governments. But Flynn believes gas prices could jump 10% or 15% if corn were to hit $10 a bushel and crude oil maintains its current high level.

With the national average of gasoline at a record $4.07 a gallon, according to AAA, a 15% increase would translate into an additional 61 cents.
"Crude oil is still the predominant factor why gas prices are high, but don't think that 6% to 10% isn't going to matter," Flynn said.

Link: Floods have sent corn skyrocketing, may drive up gas prices - Jun. 13, 2008

And remember: hurricane season is coming up, also.

Milkman · 06-07-2008, 03:06 PM

If we take out the calculator we easily find out how much gas has to be per gallon, and the size of the gas tank to reach a $100 fill-up. The fellow below, probably spent $30,000+ on the new Dodge Ram 2007, but says he's having trouble paying for the gas.

Quote:

Steve Burtch bought a Dodge Ram truck last year, when gas cost $3.75, because he thought gas prices had peaked and would start coming down. Instead, he pumped his first $100 tank in June. “I don’t know how much longer I’m going to be able to keep this up,” said Mr. Burtch, 43, who lives in Marion, Ohio.

It seems that plenty of other drivers are sharing his dismay. An automotive information Web site and market research firm, Edmunds.com, compiled sales data showing that in the last seven model years, Americans have bought 25.4 million vehicles with tanks 24 gallons or larger — the point at which three figures is now a real possibility. A few big trucks and sport utility vehicles have tanks exceeding 30 gallons.

But people who try to pump $100 worth of gas often find that they cannot, since most pumps that take credit cards shut off at $75 to prevent someone with insufficient funds or a stolen credit card from running off with gas. In addition, some older pumps still are not capable of registering triple-digit bills.

“It’s a huge inconvenience,” said Dr. Walter Bahr, a chiropractor in Cape Coral, Fla., who drives a Dodge Ram 2500 pickup and pays $130 per tank.
Many consumers whose tanks would easily swallow $100 worth of gas refuse to pump that much at once, just to avoid the trauma.

“Usually I don’t let it get real empty so that I don’t have to see that $100 on the pump,” said Bob Hammond, 61, of Chesterland, Ohio, who drives an Avalanche. “It’s a mental thing.”

Gary Chamberlain always pays cash for gasoline, so the pump kept right on spinning two weeks ago when he made his first triple-digit fill-up of his Ford conversion van.
“The bill was $104.98, which was a real shock,” said Mr. Chamberlain, 71, of Marion, Ohio. “I never thought I’d see the day.”

Link & Entire: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/bu...hp&oref=slogin

Texpat · 06-07-2008, 03:18 PM

Relatively, the US has cheaper gas than many parts of the world. The issue is distances. Presumably rail and pipeline traffic will increase and discretionary travel will be curbed. It ain't a new phenomenon and it ain't rocket science. It costs a lot more to fill a smaller truck in Thailand than a big beast in the US. It costs far more to fill a Ford Escort in London than a V-10 Titan truck in the US.

bkkandrew · 06-07-2008, 05:14 PM

Direct results on car prices:

Norton · 06-07-2008, 07:15 PM

I'm just an dumb engineer and may be accused of over simplifying a "complex" problem. Having read in a few threads the probable causes for drastic increases in oil and fuel, I have concluded diminishing supply and increase demand seem to be the major factors.

My question to the experts; Did the difference between supply and demand increase proportionately to oil price of $60 to $150 in a year? Somehow, I doubt it so someone is making a shit load of money here!

Spin · 06-07-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norton

Did the difference between supply and demand increase proportionately to oil price of $60 to $150 in a year?

I think the answer that everyone can understand would be "did it bollox"

Someone, somehwere is cleaning up so to speak. I still think its the hedge funds and all the money that isnt parked in the stock exchange sectors that went down the toilet in the sub-crime credit crunch fiasco.

06-07-2008, 07:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
Norton Born Again Pagan Last Online: Today 04:33 PM Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Roiet Posts: 7,039	I'm just an dumb engineer and may be accused of over simplifying a "complex" problem. Having read in a few threads the probable causes for drastic increases in oil and fuel, I have concluded diminishing supply and increase demand seem to be the major factors. My question to the experts; Did the difference between supply and demand increase proportionately to oil price of $60 to $150 in a year? Somehow, I doubt it so someone is making a shit load of money here! __________________ Eat right, exercise daily, live clean, die anyway.

12-06-2008, 07:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
blackgang Senior Member Last Online: Today 09:44 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chiang Mai/San Sai Posts: 6,863	Well fuck, check this link out for a change,, Skousen: Gas Price Manipulationâ€”Public Needs to Demand Opening of the Gull Island Oil Field (Alaska) « tobefree

12-06-2008, 09:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
britmaveric nid aur yw popeth melyn Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pattaya Posts: 2,679	Amazingly yanks are sitting on a pile of oil, however unable to drill for it. What a bunch of muppets!!! I have a feeling oil prices are artificially high because they realize their days are slowly coming to an end, better hit now because in future oil will be worthless to what it is now.

13-06-2008, 12:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
britmaveric nid aur yw popeth melyn Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pattaya Posts: 2,679	Also believe not really supply/demand - think its commodity future speculators at work here. NEED TO SHUT THEM DOWN

13-06-2008, 01:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
britmaveric nid aur yw popeth melyn Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pattaya Posts: 2,679	Sold for cheap I'd imagine, alright if u are only going short distances.

13-06-2008, 04:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
blackgang Senior Member Last Online: Today 09:44 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chiang Mai/San Sai Posts: 6,863	4X4 SUV's in some places in the states are a very necessary vehicle to own not only for convinence but for safety as well and they do not burn any more fuel than any other rig of comparable weight and horse power. That bullshit that y'all age spouting is just that, Bullshit, If you live in a city in Florida or Georgia in the USA then you do not need one, but if you live in a village in the northern states of the country then there is times when if you do not have 4X4 then you are locked in your house unless you own a sled, and then there is another $5k that you have tied up that can only be used in snow and burns more gas per mile than your SUV. I got rid of my Toyota SR5 4X4 and got a Honda Civic 4X4 wagon with automatic FWD and a 5 speed manual and it improved my milage from 22 MPG to 34 MPG and I could still get in and out from my house to the plowed hyway unless there was more than a foot of fresh snow. Depends on where you live, but if you are of the mind of most know it all do gooders that want to control what everyone else does, then why don't you just ride a bicycle and try to force everyone else that lives by you to do the same, you might have to whip some ass, but you might be able to do it, or you might have all the shit kicked out of you in short order. actually it is none of your business what other folks do or drive.

13-06-2008, 09:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
britmaveric nid aur yw popeth melyn Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pattaya Posts: 2,679	I guaranteed you limit future contracts, say need put 50% in than that would prevent lot these bastards from doing so. Actually I have a bad feeling that lot of pension funds/401Ks and other investments are heavily into this. I kind of fear when the bubble bursts it isnt going to be pretty.

06-07-2008, 03:18 PM	#15 (permalink)
Texpat ฝรั่งพูดมาก Last Online: Today 11:44 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nong Khai Posts: 9,484	Relatively, the US has cheaper gas than many parts of the world. The issue is distances. Presumably rail and pipeline traffic will increase and discretionary travel will be curbed. It ain't a new phenomenon and it ain't rocket science. It costs a lot more to fill a smaller truck in Thailand than a big beast in the US. It costs far more to fill a Ford Escort in London than a V-10 Titan truck in the US.

06-07-2008, 05:14 PM	#16 (permalink)
bkkandrew Clingin' on... Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BKK Posts: 4,003	Direct results on car prices:

06-07-2008, 08:02 PM	#19 (permalink)
Norton Born Again Pagan Last Online: Today 04:33 PM Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Roiet Posts: 7,039