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Bugs

The Associated Press: Obama says Iraq trip could refine his policy


Speaking of the candidate for change, seems Obama might be changing his tune as it relates to Iraq as well. IMHO he created a bit of a problem when early in his campaign he gave a specific timeline (16-18 months) for the removal of combat troops from Iraq. Locking down a firm timeline on an issue like this so early on makes it easy pickin's when the inevitable tweaking takes place.

The red team really took him to task on what some are going so far as calling a flip-flop on Iraq today. I on the other hand am glad to see some refinement on the issue. I applaud him for his commnets (in the morning) in regard to saying that after his pending trip and chance to talk with the folks on the ground that he will "have more information and continue to refine my policy". On the other hand seems he might have been better served had he actually made a trip to Iraq and got the lay of the land prior to outlining an exit timeline in the first place.

I think he might have yet opened himself up to future problems on this issue when in the afternoon he came back out and stuck to his 16-month timeline. Being so adamant about the timeline in the afternoon might come back to bite him later.

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Norton

Perhaps so but the 16 month draw down may be achievable if he can get the Iraqi government to agree and adhere to steps needed to get their house in order. Certainly, US relations with Iran will play a major role in stabilizing the Iraqi situation.

Texpat

I read somewhere this week Iraq has reached satisfactory progress on 15 of 18 points of order necessary prior to assuming full control of their own security. They're having trouble hammering out a satisfactory SOFA, so maybe they're ready to step up and act like they got a pair. Good negotiating tactic regardless of who wins the White House.

Bugs

Indeed there is a train of thought that goes along the lines of "iraq won't ever be ready until they are forced to be ready". As such putting a firm timetable in place may actually end up being benefical to those ends. However, if forcing a timetable on them does not have the desired effect of getting them to step up to the plate, then things could go tits up pretty quickly.

If will be a fine wire to walk in getting them to believe the US is firm on the timetable, and yet on the other hand not being so firm with it as to allow things to possibly get beyond repair should the Iraqies fail to measure up.

Norton

I read this and may be the same you read. Still some debate in Congress over the degree to which the 15 points are completed but clearly progress has been made.

"Whether the new administration starts pulling troops out of Iraq right away, as Democratic presidential hopeful Barak Obama has promised, or refuses to set a timetable, per Republican John McCain's suggestion, most agree that a functional democracy in Iraq could still be years away because of the complexities of the issues involved and the deeply rooted distrust among the nation's sectarian groups.
"Iraq has the potential to develop into a stable, secure multiethnic, multi-sectarian democracy under the rule of law," Ryan Crocker, U.S. ambassador to Iraq said in April when he last testified before Congress. "Whether it realizes that potential is ultimately up to the Iraqi people.""



The Associated Press: New Iraq report: 15 of 18 benchmarks satisfactory

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There is such a thing as a nation being so right that it does not need to convince others by force that it is right.

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chinthee

I've never understood why pundits give candidates such shit about flip-flopping. What exactly is wrong with modifying your position based on better intelligence, reasoning or even political expediency? I think both candidates should be allowed to flip fop around like drunken shrimp.

I have no problems with that, as long as they arrive at the right conclusions.

Boon Mee

Heh - a partial short-list of BO's Flip-Flops:

Taking union money—was against, now for;
Public financing—was for, now against;
Lifting the Cuba embargo—was for, now against;
Cracking down on illegal immigrant employers—was against, now for;
Telecom immunity in the FISA—was against, now for;
D.C. gun ban—was for, now against;
Taking Big Oil money—says he’s against, but takes money from Big Oil execs;
NAFTA—was against, now for; and
Death penalty—was against, now for.

GETLIBERTY.ORG | The Radical Waffling True-Believing Flip-Flopping Obama

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Norton

These are flip flops:



These are rational changes based on situational changes and political astuteness:

This is....err, OK he's kinda like, hell I don't know!:

Texpat

Boon Mee

Putting things into perspective -

"John McCain suffered as a POW longer than Barack Obama has been a senator.

In fact, John McCain was a Prisoner of War 13 times longer than Barack Obama was a US senator before he decided to run for President.


From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he logged 143 days of experience in the US Senate.


In contrast, John McCain has 26 years in Congress, 22 years of military service, and 1,966 days in captivity as a POW in Hanoi"

But, Obama was a community service organizer and he did

go to church.

Thanks to Nobody Says It Better « Sigmund, Carl and Alfred

Milkman

How many voters will consider this relevant enough to vote for McCain over Obama. I don't think "experience" will be an issue, based on what I've seen, read, and heard.

Age, and positions will likely be more of an issue.

McCain's rank in the Navy was fairly low. (No direspect, but he wasn't in a leadership position.)

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Military men are dumb, stupid animals, to be used as pawns for foreign policy

Bugs

Fairly low rank? Not in a leadership position?

About three years after McCain returned from Vietnam he became the commanding officer of the Navy's largest training squadron (VA-174) in Florida, and he retired from the Navy with the rank of Captain.

Sure he never obtained the rank of Admiral but that hardly means he had a fairly low rank (Captain O-6 ain't a fairly low rank IMHO). And sure he was not a front line commander during war time, but I fail to see how one could classify a person that was the CO of the Navy's largest training squadron as not in a leadership position.

Washington Times - Politics, Breaking News, US and World News - "McCain camp: 'Shocked and disappointed'" by Dinan

John McCain’s service record

Boon Mee

Knew there was a reason I don't pick up a copy of Rolling Stone anymore. This Glowbama thing is getting out of hand...

Milkman

Bugs, I stand corrected on McCain's leadership as a Captain. Boon, the "Rolling Stone." What a farce of a magazine, especially in politics.

As for Obama's priorities, both candidates are muddying the waters, becoming more controlled, tightening the leash on surragates (cheerleaders that go on talk shows to support a candidate) and both are flopping and focusing big-time on the low-info voter.

Boon Mee

Still more flipping & flopping by you know who...

Moonbattery: Still More Flipping and Flopping

and another: Moonbattery: Flip Flop Flip Flop Flip Flop

Milkman

There is a lot of flip-flopping on both sides, and will continue as the election nears.

Flip-flopping is necesarry. It's part of the campaign (and sometimes even policy).

sabang

^Yeh, at least Osama doesn't FlipFlop on his policy.
Unlike that bladdy Obama.

Texpat

On a lighter note:

Joel Stein
Los Angeles Times
July 18, 2008

I believe comedic change is possible. Since the New Yorker dropped a bum joke on its cover this week, comedians have appeared on every news outlet to whine about how hard it is to make fun of Barack Obama. Really? They have an arsenal of jokes to use against a 71-year-old ex-POW cancer survivor and Obama is too touchy a subject?

I'm here to help. I called some comedian friends to compile a guide to making fun of Obama. The consensus is there's not yet one standout attribute to pound away on (McCain is old! Clinton cheats on his wife! Bush is stupid! Al Gore is a robot! John Kerry makes me feel inexplicably sad inside!), but there are areas to explore. If we just work a little harder, and sacrifice a little bit, we can achieve greatness. We are the immature jerks we have been waiting for.

He's a nerd. Yes, he seems cool because he plays basketball and fist-bumps and knows about pop music. But that's because we're comparing him with other politicians, all of whom are older than our grandparents. Compare Obama with other 46-year-olds and he's Urkel. He's the kid at the Model United Nations conference who says, "Guys, guys, c'mon. Let's not make fun of Eastern Europe." And the brutal truth is, even if women faint at your rallies, you'll never feel cool inside when you have Alfred E. Neuman's ears.

He's ridiculously earnest. Obama is the kind of guy who not only talked you into showing up for Hands Across America but afterward insisted that it was awesome. On "Saturday Night Live," Fred Armisen plays up Obama's weird pauses and brow furrows like he's Yogi Bear getting bad news from a doctor. Comedian Marc Maron does a really smart bit about how Obama stares out into the distance while giving a speech. "The first time you see him you're like, 'What's he looking at?' But then you're like, 'I don't know, but it's good and full of hope. And he's the only one who can see it. If we vote for him, maybe he'll take us there.' "

He's black. Apparently, the differences between black people and white people can be funny. Trust, me I've seen this on HBO's "Def Comedy Jam."

When I called "Simpsons" writer Matt Selman for help on Obama jokes, he came up with this: "A lot of people are worried about Obama being assassinated because he's black. The solution to that is a much blacker vice president. I'm thinking Flavor Flav." Admittedly, Selman nervously said, "Don't make me look racist!" about 20 times before and after telling me his joke.

He's manorexic. No one loses weight on the campaign trail, when you're grabbing fast food and eating whatever is offered out of politeness, but this guy is always turning down doughnuts. It's like he signed up for running for president because he thought "president" was some kind of 10K race.

As comedian Aisha Tyler told me, "He has the build of an ex-high school javelin thrower. He's the guy on the track team who only does that one event, and he weighs the same as the javelin."

He's effete. He's well-dressed. He eats arugula -- which he buys at Whole Foods. He mocks those who use guns. He is, as we mentioned, quite thin. He may only be half-black, but he's three-quarters gay.

He called his own grandmother a racist. We all have racist grandmothers, but we don't brag about it to everyone. I like to imagine that his granny wasn't that bad and that Obama was just super-sensitive. Like she would tell him it was bedtime and he'd yell, "Oh, I have to go to bed because I'm black!" Or she'd tell him to clean up his room and he'd start yelling, "Oh, clean my room, huh? My people stopped obeying the white woman 100 years ago, Grammy!" Then they'd both laugh and she'd whip him.

His name is weird. The unfunny people beat us to the Osama/Obama bit, which really could have been mined. But Obama also dropped the "Barry" nickname in college. Do you remember those classmates who suddenly found their culture and had to share it with you like they were on the ninth step of AA? You just wanted to trudge through "Portrait of a Lady," but they felt compelled to sit you down in the dorm hallway and explain how they're no longer Susie, they're Mei Mei now. Then they recounted their whole journey of identity by using a lot of words that made it clear that Mei Mei was going to be a lot less fun than Susie was.

His platitudes need deconstruction. "We are the people we've been waiting for"? Actually, I'm pretty sure we're the people who put all our money in Yahoo and then bought a house to flip and now are hocking everything we have. We're the people China has been waiting for.

sabang

^ Like it.

I think any serious political candidate has got to have the piss taken out of him, and most of the Obama stuff has just been unfunny because it comes from a rather defensive Right, baffled by the success of this upstart.

But he is a bit nerdy- what could be more nerdy than organic aragula? I bet he eats burgers with a knife and fork too, and never gets drunk. The coolest thing about him really is that he's half black.

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To err is human. To blame someone else is politics.

Milkman

I know your joking (I think) Sabang. You're one of the more astute poster here, IMO.

Osama is not a politicians. BO's alteration of his stance on Iraq (aka "flip-flop") is a calculated move the may solidify his base, attract more voters on the fence, and give the impression he's pragmatic to more voters, than the move alienates.

I think BO's Iraq adjustment is a good political move.