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DrAndy

That link says nothing of the sort Andrew, you have made a mistake

try again, get the correct link

and this was hilarious you really know nothing eh?

bkkandrew

^I know you are old and infirm, so I will try and help you.

Butterfly was responding to an article and comment in post 668, which was entirely about Lehman. He admitted in post 669 (which the link was for) that he described Lehman having "limited difficulties".

Perhaps you are too elderly for complex matters discussed on this type of thread. I hear DD has some soup-cooking threads. Why don't you try those?

bkkandrew

While Butterfly hallucinates about Lehman having the best year in their history, I prefer to return to reality:

U.S. Stocks Drop as Recession Concern Outweighs Bailout Passage

By Eric Martin

Oct. 3 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks slid, capping the worst week for the Standard & Poor's 500 Index since the 2001 terrorist attacks, on concern the $700 billion bank bailout isn't enough to unlock credit markets and prevent a recession.

JPMorgan Chase & Co., Discover Financial Services and Lennar Corp. fell more than 7 percent as a the biggest loss of jobs in five years overshadowed congressional approval of the plan to buy banks' troubled assets. Citigroup Inc. dropped 18 percent, its steepest plunge since 1988, after Wachovia Corp. agreed to be acquired by Wells Fargo & Co., snubbing a deal to sell its banking operations to Citigroup.

The S&P 500 declined 15.05 points, or 1.4 percent, to 1,099.23. The Dow Jones Industrial Average lost 157.47 points, or 1.5 percent, to 10,325.38. The Nasdaq Composite Index slipped 29.33, or 1.5 percent, to 1,947.39. More than three stocks decreased for each that rose on the New York Stock Exchange.

``Once you get over one hurdle, you start looking at the next hurdle, and the next one is the weakness in the U.S.,'' said John Davidson, president of PartnerRe Asset Management in Greenwich, Connecticut, which invests more than $12 billion. ```There's doubt that we'll avoid a recession.''

The S&P 500 lost 9.4 percent over the last five days, dragging the gauge to an almost four-year low. The benchmark index for U.S. stocks tumbled 4 percent yesterday as reports on jobless claims and factory orders reignited concern the economy is sinking into a recession. The Dow lost 7.3 percent in the week and the Nasdaq tumbled 10.8 percent, sending both to the lowest levels since 2005.

More here (especially some important news on LIBOR leaping again):

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

Now, I believe that this thread only has a short time to live, before the only thread on this subject of newsworthy nature will be the Martial Law one. Wall Street, commentators and investors are realising the reality and this crash will turn ugly.

DrAndy

Oh you are trying the ageism card, jolly good

can you tell me my age please? or are you just following the crowd, like most financial "experts"?

You are one of those who shout and jump around when someone predicts something you don't agree with, then, after they have been proven right, point a finger and say "that is what I said", or "I said that in February"

of course you did, you are a financial "expert"
expert at following the crowd

and boring too

__________________
keep 'em coming

bkkandrew

68.

Anyway, if you cannot follow a simple thread, when given links and post numbers, most people would draw their own conclusions.

DrAndy

As I have just said, being patronising is merely the resort of the ignorant, Your link was incorrect; if you read it there was nothing in it that made any connection with what you had said. We are not all mind readers. Post numbers? maybe in a different post?

and I am nowhere near 68, so much for numerical astuteness!

bkkandrew

^^^Now, I haven't added all those losses up, but they amount to quite a bit for a company that Butterfly claims is in "limited difficulty". If he would only explain this 'fact' to each of the companies listed, they save shed loads of cash!




The post numbers were in the post you were quoting. You managed to delete them when quoting them. Another example of the effects of age on the mind I would suggest.

Begbie

Bradford and Bingley was a building society before it was ever a bank. Likewise the Halifax in HBOS is dragging that institution down. Many banks have limited expposure to housing loans.

DrAndy

Andrew may drone "correct" and state the obvious, but the fact that B&B and Halifax were building societies has nothing to do with the current problems. These have been created by the later bank managements exposing themselves to high risk loans

bkkandrew

It has everything to do with the problem. The two companies loan books have always been mainly against the UK property sector. The fact that:

a) They have grown massively since conversion, increasing massively their exposure to a property crash and;

b) There has been a massive property crash in the UK.

Were the fundamental reasons why I predicted their failure in April.

bkkandrew

^Correct, it is the mortgage debt timebomb that is the start, middle and end of this crisis.

Butterfly

don't bother the guy live in lala land ?

Butterfly

Lehman brokers was still operating last time I check. Do you understand the meaning of a Holdings company ? and what are the Bankruptcy laws ? you have no clue as usual and keep saying things that didn't happen,

Spin

They are in chapter 11 bankruptcy right now. So yes they are still operating. Chapter 11 basically means they are re-organising and not entering liquidation. I think we can safely say that they aint coming out of this coma they are in right now though.

bkkandrew

Now, the following article is lengthy, so I will just post the link:

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

There are many interesting aspects of the bailout in this article, but the most pertinent are these:

1. The actual amount authorised for 'bad asset' purchase is $250BN.

This amount represents only 2/3 of the Wachovia loans identified as 'bad' and in need of bailout. It is a fart against thunder as by granddad used to say.

2. It describes the purchase of 'troubled assets'.

This is a misnomer. There are just assets. Some assets were valued in a ridiculous manner before and now they are valued realistically. That has caused them to be classified as 'troubled'. This is deluded - an asset is worth what someone is willing to pay. It is like buying a $250K house, setting fire to it and demanding $250K for the burnt-out wreck by discribing it as 'troubled'. This will simply distort the market and ultimately leave the US taxpayer out of pocket, whilst not solving the problem of US banks being insolvent to the tune of $2-3TRILLION.

Butterfly

again "making up" stories that didn't happen,

which one would that be, andrew ?

Butterfly

so much for him to be a financial expert for all that he did was to get his predictions from that BBC blog, making it more funny !!! and since when a journalist is a financial analyst ?

bkkandrew

Incorrect, Robert Peston was behind the curve on this for quite a while. My first post on a specialist financial forum relating to the crash was 12-months prior to the crash commencing, the date which is synonomous with Peston breaking the BNP Paribas story about having trouble with valueing their assets. Now he has caught up, being the BBC's Business Editor makes him a reliable author of source material.

Which is probably why you had never heard of him prior to me including a link on this thread.

Butterfly

The holdings company yes, NOT the brokers arm and a good majority of their business. Check the stories. I know most people don't and will go for the simplification of everything, it's easier. That's how our friend bkka like to read them, over simplification, and the world is coming to an end.

The Holdings company is a different legal structure. The idea is you don't "take down" all your profitable business if you have one business that goes wrong.

Spin

You are quite right, as per this Lehman press release link
It quite clearly states, at the top of the document in huge bold text.....

"LEHMAN BROTHERS HOLDINGS INC. ANNOUNCES IT INTENDS TO FILE CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY PETITION; NO OTHER LEHMAN BROTHERS’ U.S. SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES, INCLUDING ITS BROKER-DEALER AND INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT SUBSIDIARIES, ARE INCLUDED IN THE FILING"