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bkkandrew

Canada? - Nope, same structure as US.
Germany? - Nope, same structure as US.

bkkandrew

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Your basic assertion was flawed. You simply looked up the Wiki table of Government debt, but didn't bother to note that it was innaccurate.

For example, the US debt figure is Federal Debt ONLY, yet for Canada? I quote:

Source:

Talk:List of countries by public debt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, your comparison table is CIA produced nonsense. Using it as your central argument is indeed a blatant mistake, misconception, an assumption and complete misunderstanding. (To coin a phrase.)

Butterfly

here we go, going into circular mode as expected

first, I didn't look at that wiki where you claimed I got my numbers, it was from a different source, not wiki, so your whole conspiracy theory about me missing the "dispute" from the CIA was completely over the top and typical of your paranoia and silly clown mentality, I didn't even look at the page

Second, you seem to infer that the Federal Government is responsible for all debt, even private, indirectly by extra polling a scenario of the FDIC defaulting ??? I mean WTF, are you really that clueless ? why not go the whole route of USD debt in foreigner countries then ? should the Federal government be also responsible for Eurodollar defaulting ????

you say, but since you do not have the brain to analyze and discuss those kind of matters, I would suggest you stick to copy/paste of news clips.

Btw, still waiting for you to answer the question ? why not include Corporate Debt in your "estimate" ? I mean surely they are "important" as you put it ?

back to you troll,

bkkandrew

So where did you get it from then?

Seems a long paragraph to avoid telling us...

bkkandrew

The CIA Handbook that has measured debt to GDP %ages strangely excludes all debt other than Federal for the US figure, yet includes Municipal and State debt for comparable countries, such as Canada.

Quoting like with like would be a start.

bkkandrew

The FDIC, under its charter, would have to replenish its shortfall from the Treasury. After Indymac et al, the current reserve ratio is too low (according to its charter) and, indeed, this would add to the Federal debt.

bkkandrew

Corporate debt is not underwritten by the Treasury, except in exeptional circumstances (of which we are about to get a case in point - the Freddie and Fannie show).

Most US corporates simply file for bankruptcy when they become insolvent and unsecured creditors face the loss. So, no, apart from those institutions that have specifically been underwritten by the Treasure, the corporate debt figures have no place in the equation.

bkkandrew

Butterfly, much as I have enjoyed exposing your lack of knowledge over the past months, would it be possible to post in a slightly less rude manner and stick to the facts?

Butterfly

I think those posts above speak for themselves, troll

Exactly, same as the State debt, and the Municipal Debt, it's not written by the Federal Government so why should the US Treasury be liable ? it doesn't, and those debt are NOT FDIC insured eitheir, troll, despite your attempt of derailing the discussion to those silly assumptions you were making. So got it now ? it's like asking should Germany be liable for the debt of France or Italy back in the days before the ECB. Of course not.

and to that same conclusion, those state debt have "no place in the equation"

Game, Point, Set !!! thanks for playing troll

bkkandrew

LONDON, Sept 1 (Reuters) - Bradford & Bingley Plc (BB.L: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) said on Monday its sales director, Mark Stevens, had resigned, days after Britain's biggest lender to landlords warned conditions would continue to worsen.

Chief Executive Richard Pym said: "I had wanted Mark to stay but he has made a personal decision to leave us."

Last Friday, Bradford & Bingley announced it had sunk to a first-half loss, hit by 155 million pounds ($280 million) in writedowns and investment losses, and said bad debts had risen more than half since the end of 2007.

Its shares, which have lost 80 percent of their value since January, closed 4.6 percent lower at 46.75 pence. (Reporting by Dan Lalor; Editing by Quentin Bryar)

bkkandrew

Bradford & Bingley's long-term IDR cut to 'BBB+'; outlook negative - Fitch



MUMBAI (Thomson Financial) - Fitch Ratings said it has cut UK-based Bradford & Bingley Plc.'s (B&B) long-term issuer default rating to 'BBB+' from 'A-' after its 2008 results announcement, citing the agency's view of the deterioration in the bank's underlying performance.

Fitch said it views positively the completion of the rights issue boosting the bank's capital position and the arrival of a new experienced chief executive.
The outlook on the rating is negative, reflecting B&B's deteriorating asset quality and profitability.

Fitch lowered the individual rating to 'C' from 'B/C', subordinated debt to 'BBB' from 'BBB+' and the preferred stock to 'BBB-' from 'BBB+'.

Bradford & Bingley's long-term IDR cut to 'BBB+'; outlook negative - Fitch - Forbes.com

I'll miss the bowler hats (not)...

bkkandrew

^No, you have missed the point. I was not saying they should or should not be included. I was saying that if you compare the figures between countries, the same class of debts should by calculated.

In the CIA handbook, by including State and Municipal debt for most countries, such as Canada, and not for the US, they are skewing the comparison. And as the direct comparison was what you started on this part of the thread, you have to admit now that the comparison was wrong and foolish to mention. A fact that you would have realised if you had bothered to read the background information on the figures.

So, point, game and set to you before I responded, but game, set and match to me.

Butterfly

not they are not, but again you completely missed the point and failed to answer every questions that were brought,

in true circular clown mode


hahaha, claiming your imaginary victory again, exactly like our good troll AA

bkkandrew

^Right, what questions did I not answer? (Yawn)

And one for you, if the fact that the debt figures quoted for the US excludes all debts other than Federal debts, yet for Canada and most other countries includes a raft of debts, such as Municipal and State, why is this comparison not skewed?

Spin

M3 money supply data was supressed in 2006. I wonder why?

Bugs

In March 2006, the Federal Reserve Board of Governors ceased publication of the M3 monetary aggregate. M3 did not appear to convey any additional information about economic activity that was not already embodied in M2. Consequently, the Board judged that the costs of collecting the data and publishing M3 outweigh the benefits.
The Money Supply - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

__________________
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion" - Steven Weinberg

bkkandrew

^Yes, how convenient.

Accidental Ajarn

So, I see here is yet another BKKA thread claiming the American economy is going to crash and burn. Amazing, I don't see the major hedge funds growing crazy and selling everything dealing with America short. How does BKKA know more than the heads of these multi-billion dollar hedge funds?

He must be one amazing guy.

But, I see he has predicated the end of the world as we knew it with the USA being the world's economic leader a number of times, but his predications never seem to come true.

So, should I take what the leaders of multi-billion dollar hedge funds are doing as a guide or should I believe this crackpot on an internet forum who has gotten it wrong in every previous prediction?

hum, tough choice, eh?

Spin

Maybe you should open your eyes then?

Billions of dollars recently went short on commodities and the long energy short financials trade was recently reversed big time.

Butterfly

because, I repeat slowly again, Canada, and probably for other countries Treasury Department, those public debts (Munies) are guaranteed by the central government, which is the not the case in the US, then there is a need to remove those State debts from the stats.

However, it would be interesting to add also those debt in the computation regardless, even though it would be a biased computation. Anyway, that doesn't take away the validation of the original argument that Japan with 120% debt over GDP and being the second world power didn't put the world into complete financial cahos despite the size of its debt.