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AntRobertson

Ahh yes so as I thought you haven't, as per, actually read it...

... so what's all this about then?

stroller

A quick look in any dictionary for "liberal" and "fascism" will show how ridiculous this term is.
Is the US 'right' really that intellectually impoverished that they embrace Coulter and now this crap?

Correct, as I alluded to for the term "capitalism". But what does this have to do with "liberals", if anything at all? What's your point here, BM?

"Popular" isn't quite right, but intellectuals of the left as well as the right have found his work relevant. What do you know about Schmitt? -or is this just a cheap attempt as defamation by association?

So? Scared or not, what is your point?


This notion has merit, the two meet in the extreme, for example, communists and Nazis collaborated for a while (before they were fighting each other to the death). The resulting authoritarian intolerance is similar, see Stalin and Hitler.
But, once more, no relevance at all to US liberals, or "the left" as such.

Yes, for its utter stupidity and the fact that it is taken seriously.
Right-wing blogs are 'incensed' at every notion of Bush=Hitler, does that make it true?

Once and for all, Booner:
The extreme left is not "liberal".

stroller

Coming back to the Nazis and socialism, the figure of Gregor Strasser is highly relevant here, who was the leader of the Nazi left wing (yes, there was such a thing) until he was murdered by the Gestapo in 1934 - they didn't take too well to socialism, if it went beyond popular vote gathering.

Boon Mee

Let's put aside the terms 'liberal' & 'left' for a moment within this discussion. Principally because, after all this time, you cannot grasp the distinction used in the states (recall John L's lectures) vs. what y'all on the 'continent' are familiar with.

As I've pointed out ad nasuem, the liberals if you will are becoming evenmore 'left' within the US. The old Democratic Party is unrecognizable today. Fair enough, there is the Ann Coulter element on the right but getting back to Goldberg's book - his main point as I understand it, is that those on the left today are becoming 'fascist'. Many examples: Intolerance of disenting opinions, editorial pages of MSM bleeding into the 'news'. Unhinged, extreme BDS as evidenced by the 8 millon dollar 'study' to insure Dubya's poll numbers don't go up. The list goes on and on.

__________________
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sabang

I don't claim to be too close to US domestic politics, but in recent hisory Democrat governments have been much more fiscally and monetarily conservative than Republican. This is backed up by hard facts such as US government debt, trade deficits, overall debt levels in the US economy, and softer facts such as corporate covernence scandals, the performance of the USD, even the fact that no senior White House official remains in this administration bar Bush & Cheney.

What am I missing?

__________________
To err is human. To blame someone else is politics.

stroller

^
Trying to hi-jack yet another thread with your 'special needs'?

Ahem, "John" is quite correct in his take on the difference between 'classic' and contemporary liberalism - one of the very few issues he managed to grasp, I should add. But it is a few years ago this individual contributed anything to my understanding.
I have specifically referred to "US" liberals, as of today, not to any continental European notion of the term.
- so this is another shot into thin air, Booner.


Well, you keep pointing it out, but if it is true is doubtful. I certainly don't see any "extreme left" with any popular base in the US.

What about addressing the other points/questions in my post?

Hootad Binky

"Liberal Fascist" is a McCarthyist smear - plain and simple. Anyone remember McCarthy? All the misery he caused, lives ruined? Of course McCarthyism is discredited now ... isn't it?

According to the logic of the OP, Roosevelt's New Deal should be viewed as the greatest Communist infiltration in American history! Same with Medicaid/Medicare and Social Security! Left-wing media bias! Um, erm, Hilary's a Fascist! Hilary's a Fascist!

__________________
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone elses opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. -Oscar Wilde

Boon Mee

The following excerpt most defiinitively defines what Goldberg is talking about when he refers to the unhinged Left as fascists:

"The white male is the Jew of liberal fascism. The “key to solving the social problems of our age is to abolish the white race,” writes the whiteness studies scholar and historian Noel Ignatiev. Whiteness studies is a cutting-edge academic discipline sweeping American higher education.

Some thirty universities have WS departments, but many more schools teach the essentials of whiteness studies in other courses. The executive director of the Center for the Study of White American Culture explains, “There is no crime that whiteness has not committed against people of color . . . We must blame whiteness for the continuing patterns today . . . which damage and prevent the humanity of those of us within it.” The journal Race Traitor (ironically, a Nazi term) is dedicated “to serve as an intellectual center for those seeking to abolish the white race.” Now, this is not a genocidal movement; no one is suggesting that white people be rounded up and put in camps. But the principles, passions, and argumentation have troubling echoes.

First, there is the left’s shocking defense of black riot ideology and gangsterism. The glorification of violence, the romance of the street, the denunciations of “the system,” the conspiratorialism, the exaltation of racial solidarity, the misogyny of hip-hop culture: all of these things offer a disturbing sense of déjà vu. Hip-hop culture has incorporated. On college campuses, administrators routinely look the other way at classically fascist behavior, from newspaper burnings to the physical intimidation of dissident speakers. These attitudes ultimately stem from the view that the white man, like the Jew, represents every facet of what is wrong and oppressive to humanity. As Susan Sontag proclaimed in 1967, “The white race is the cancer of human history.” Meanwhile, Enlightenment notions of universal humanity are routinely mocked on the academic left as a con used to disguise entrenched white male privilege."

Bold/italics mine.
The above sorta speaks for itself. Whitey can't get a break - we have to 'pay dues' for all the wrongs' we've inflicted...

One more quote: " One of the most fascistic things that kids on college campuses say is that, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." In other words, there is no safe harbor. Either you agree with where the movement wants to go or you are a problem and problems need to be solved by definition."

Pretty heavy, eh?

sabang

"Look, I think liberals have reasonable gripes with Fox News. It does lean to the right, primarily in its opinion programming but also in its story selection (which is fine by me) and elsewhere. But it's worth remembering that Fox is less a bastion of ideological conservatism and more a populist, tabloidy network."

Jonah Goldberg (at least I agree with him on something)

It turns out, Jonah Goldbergs mother Lucianne was the person who advised Linda Tripp to record her conversations with Monica Lewinsky, and save the dress. His career as a right wing pundit was launched then, when he wrote an article in the New Yorker about the ensuing media seige on her apartment. Previous to this, he taught English in Prague after graduating from an obscure college in 1991, then got a job with the American Enterprise Institute, a Conservative 'Think Tank'.

Clearly his academic qualifications and the depth of his research would make the likes of Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein shake in their boots, which is presumably why I can find not one serious academic critique of this erm, book.

It is easy however to position it from a marketing perspective- find an easily digestible 'theme', in this case that Fascists on the far Right and loonies on the Far Left have in common the aspect that they are rabid Idealogues- if you are not one of them you are an 'enemy of the people'. Conveniently employ the term Liberal to encompass all far Left lunacy (common US right wing doggerel, straight out of the PR manuals), and thus compare Liberalism to fascism. Fail to mention inconvenient differences- e.g Goldberg rails on about this theme that Liberals are 'ashamed to be white, 'want us to Lose' etc, Fascists however believe in Aryans as the Master Race, and believe military conquest and victory is a legitimate tactic to maintain our 'superiority'.

Hey Presto- prepackaged Pap for the party faithful, marketed to the usual audience thru the usual channels. Strait out of the Coulter school of 'how to make a buck in life'- no surprises then they used to work together. In short- get a public profile, define your target market, find a theme, produce something for their consumption. Don't use real big words or use too many footnotes and references.

Seeing as I could not find any serious review of this 'book' (no booner, Blogs don't count), I thought booner might enjoy the following Review :-

GAY PATRIOT- the 'Internet home for the American gay Patriot'.

Liberal Fascism offers a startling new perspective on the theories and practices that define fascist politics. Replacing conveniently manufactured myths with surprising and enlightening research, Jonah Goldberg reminds us that the original fascists were really on the left, and that liberals from Woodrow Wilson to FDR to Hillary Clinton have advocated policies and principles remarkably similar to those of Hitler’s National Socialism and Mussolini’s Fascism.

Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term “National socialism”).

.... I’m glad this must-read is on its way to me now!

-Bruce (GayPatriot)
Gay Patriot » #1 Amazon Book: Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg

Yep, Bruce the Gay Patriot has deemed it worthy to review this ground breaking scholarship even before he has read the 'book'.

stroller

Well yes, Goldberg's out-of-context quotes, intentional misconstruing and skewed comparisons read like something straight from the right-wing blogsphere - spin with no substance.

About as credible as Kosfiles.

Boon Mee

"Liberal Fascism offers a startling new perspective on the theories and practices that define fascist politics. Replacing conveniently manufactured myths with surprising and enlightening research, Jonah Goldberg reminds us that the original fascists were really on the left, and that liberals from Woodrow Wilson to FDR to Hillary Clinton have advocated policies and principles remarkably similar to those of Hitler’s National Socialism and Mussolini’s Fascism."

I have absolutely no issue with that quote. In fact, agree 100%.
My point is, Goldberg has hit a very sensitive nerve with the far-left moonbats who recognize their shortcomings but don't want to confront them.

stroller

Well, you would.
Never let truth get in the way of smearing your political opponents.

Hootad Binky

^ Takes two to tango!

Anyway, if this is the best the Conservative Right in America can up with, then... I'm happy, actually!

Their other deficit is in humour, they have nothing that can stand up to Michael Moore, The Daily Show or the Colbert Report, and they're constantly being laughed at.

They have nothing, utterly nothing, in the important realm of documentaries, either. The most prominent recent work has been Moore's work, as well as many excellent documentaries about the Iraq War, docs about corporate malfeasance, like The Corporation or Who Killed the Electric Car? to docs about insane Christians.

The Left really does control this particular discourse; I think this is what the Conservative Right means when they talk about the "liberal bias" of the media. Evangelicals, gun nuts and money-grubbing corporate types themselves just aren't funny people.

But who can resist making fun of Republicans when they are chasing pageboys, running up huge deficits, funding Al-Queda and having gay sex in public toilets? Is this not "Conservative Gay Hippy Pinkoism" run amok?

Now that makes fun reading.

stroller

Yep, just like "with us or against us", whoever is not with our current policies, is the enemy, by definition.

Hitler also borrowed extensively to finance the war machine - same as Bush. Heh!

Bush=Hitler.

The left and the right in the US are all fascists.

Boon Mee

Well, as much as it pains me to reveal this dear readers, Jonah Goldberg's book has been nominated for a Pulitzer...heh..

Hog On Ice

stroller

Sure, Boner...

Boon Mee