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Old 11-09-2008, 08:31 PM   #1821 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon
Just coz my father was a prick doesn't mean I am.
jet has issues because her daddy didn't spend enough time with her.

who would've guessed?
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:10 PM   #1822 (permalink)
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The whole "pit bull with lipstick" slogan which seems to resonate so well with Republicans is puzzling. The slogan implies she is a "kick ass" take no prisoners pit bull kind of person who is going to descend on Washington and clean the place up. This all sounds well and good but let's take a hard look at the implication.

So McCain now has a pit bull as his sidekick. The Congress is, and will likely be more controlled by the Dems after the election. McCain has stated the Congress needs to come together and put aside partisanship for the betterment of the country and I agree. I also have always believed McCain had a good chance do this until his selection of Palin.

His selection of Palin to rally the Republican party, while effective is very short sighted. He has selected a running mate who's views and core beliefs are diametrically opposed to the core beliefs of the clear majority in the Congress.

If Palin was a consensus seeking type person she would have a near impossible task in reaching across the aisle given these differences. A pit bull kick ass personality behavior she has apparently used in Alaska will be opposed by a Congress full of a whole pack of far more experienced pit bulls. Partisan divides which now plague the government will severely deepen not lessen.

It will be a stubborn angry Congress against the Administration resulting in gridlock which is sure to damage the country.

If the McCain/Palin ticket wins, pit bull tactics will never work given the realities of situation. It's going to take vision and good policies coupled with a big dose of charismatic diplomacy to get the parties working together.

Neither McCain or a pit bull with lipstick have a prayer of bringing Congress together and ending the partisanship. No change, just four more years of the same, only worse.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:19 PM   #1823 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton View Post
If Palin was a consensus seeking type person she would have a near impossible task in reaching across the aisle given these differences. A pit bull kick ass personality behavior she has apparently used in Alaska will be opposed by a Congress full of a whole pack of far more experienced pit bulls. Partisan divides which now plague the government will severely deepen not lessen.
What you're really trying to say here Norts is if Palin was one of them appeasement types who prefers reading terrorists their rights as opposed to locking 'em up, the country & world would be a better place?
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:39 PM   #1824 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee
What you're really trying to say here Norts is if Palin was one of them appeasement types who prefers reading terrorists their rights as opposed to locking 'em up, the country & world would be a better place?
Appeasement has nothing to do with it. Why is it folks think negotiation and reaching a consensus is somehow a sell out (appeasement). It ain't it's called making progress toward a mutually agreeable solution. It's what politics and business is all about.

So what are you saying the Dems are the equivalent of "terrorist" so no need to seek consensus. Just use pit bull tactics and beat them into submission. It don't work that way as any successful President fully understood.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:44 PM   #1825 (permalink)
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I think McCain/Palin presidency has the needed tools to get things done in Congress.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:46 PM   #1826 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
Appeasement has nothing to do with it. Why is it folks think negotiation and reaching a consensus is somehow a sell out (appeasement).
Britain was accused of the same thing when negotiating with the IRA. It brought about peace, and peace being the important thing in the end. Someone has to give.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:52 PM   #1827 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britmaveric
I think McCain/Palin presidency has the needed tools to get things done in Congress.
Why do you think that?
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:54 PM   #1828 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britmaveric
I think McCain/Palin presidency has the needed tools to get things done in Congress.
mind expanding in lots of detail??
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:16 PM   #1829 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britmaveric View Post
I think McCain/Palin presidency has the needed tools to get things done in Congress.
I tend to agree, in fact I think we're witnessing a phenomena.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:25 PM   #1830 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by britmaveric
I think McCain/Palin presidency has the needed tools to get things done in Congress.
mind expanding in lots of detail??
They're going to tackle the energy issues with everything they've got. Which will in turn be one hell of a stimulus for the economy.

McCain has promised to use his veto power on pork, and has a track record of keeping such promises.

Palin has already clobbered the old guard politician in AK. Don't expect her to be a shrinking violet in DC.

Between Obama and Biden their track record is quite lame in comparison.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:33 PM   #1831 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton View Post
If Palin was a consensus seeking type person she would have a near impossible task in reaching across the aisle given these differences. A pit bull kick ass personality behavior she has apparently used in Alaska will be opposed by a Congress full of a whole pack of far more experienced pit bulls. Partisan divides which now plague the government will severely deepen not lessen.
What you're really trying to say here Norts is if Palin was one of them appeasement types who prefers reading terrorists their rights as opposed to locking 'em up, the country & world would be a better place?
Sad, little one-track mind man.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:21 PM   #1832 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiff
Just a rather accurate observation.
It's an opinion based on his bias.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:28 PM   #1833 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton View Post
His selection of Palin to rally the Republican party, while effective is very short sighted. He has selected a running mate who's views and core beliefs are diametrically opposed to the core beliefs of the clear majority in the Congress.
It might have been short sighted but let's face it McCain could not afford to look at the long run. He had to focus on what would help him get elected. Palin has been amazing at solidifying the red team base. Before the convention I had some real doubts about how much of the red team base would simply stay home on election day - that is no longer a concern for me. From what I have seen I think the only thing that could have happened to electrify the red team base more than Palin would have been if Obama would have picked Hillary as his VP.

If McCain wins there will be no end to the Obama detractors blaming his pick of Biden over Hillary for his loss. Most of this will be misplaced blame, because picking Hillary would have done just as much for McCain as it would have done for Obama (maybe even more). I do wonder who McCain would have picked for his VP if Obama would have picked Hillary.

As for Palin the "pitbull" not being able to reach across the isle and make things work. Her record in Alaska seems to be to the contrary. She seems to have been able to pull off her share of compromise - even with the Sara Barracuda moniker. So much so that much of the red team party leaders in Alaska did not seem to hold her in good steed (prior to McCain tapping her for the VP slot).

I don't think any elected offical can ever hope to get enough compromise to happen in the current very polarized world of Washington. IMHO the key (regardless if it is McCain or Obama) is to go after things that they are most likely to be able to get compromise to happen, rather than targeting things they want most to happen and try to get compromise on those issues. Once they build up a record of compromise on the easiest things, then they can tackel the harder ones. Having already established themselves as leaders that compromise they can leverage that on the tough issues to force both sides to give more than they want or else being seen as the side that is holding things up.

On the compromise front McCain has said he will include Democrats in his cabinet (no doubt Liberman will be one of them). I have not heard Obama making similar claims - I have heard rumors that both Bill and Hillary Clinton will be offered cabinet seats. Personally I don't have a problem with that (I have doubts that either of them are willing to work under Obama), but I would be surprised if the red team does not eventually use this to fear monger some of their base - make sure McCain gets elected or you'll be stuck not only with Obama, but BOTH Clintons as well.
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:30 AM   #1834 (permalink)
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From the London Times no less: What Sarah Palin Tells Us About Obama. "The character question it raises is not that he is a sexist or that he lacks courtesy. It is that he folds under pressure. Obama has looked amazingly uncomfortable under the pressure that Palin has put him under. He relies on his cool - it is a core part of his appeal. So he looks bad when he loses it. During the Hillary contest he rarely came under any pressure from the media. When he did he reacted badly."

Yeah, right...just what we need when that 3am phone call comes in eh?
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:52 AM   #1835 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by "britmaveric"
I think McCain/Palin presidency has the needed tools to get things done in Congress.
Why do you think that?
Typical elitist interlectshual question from an Obama supporter. LOL
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:44 AM   #1836 (permalink)
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Taking a look at the electoral map it seems things are pretty close, and getting closer by the day.

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

Quote:
Obama leading in states with 193 Electoral College votes and McCain ahead in states with 189 Electoral College votes. When “leaners” are included, it’s Obama 259, McCain 247.
If these numbers hold out until Nov, and we give both sides the benifit of doubt and let them both land their leaners, we would be left with four states that would decide who gets to live the White House, and rent out the Lincoln bedroom.

Quote:
Toss-up states:
CO - 9
NM - 5
NV - 5
VA - 13
So now we have Obama with 259, and McCain with 247, and four toss-up states. If McCain lands VA and CO, and Obama lands NM and NV we now have a tie.

Obama = 259 + 5 + 5 = 269
McCain = 247 + 9 + 13 = 269

WE HAVE A TIE.

The 12 Amendment of the US Constitution says now the House gets to elect the president and the senate gets to elect the vp. McCain/Biden or Obama/Palin, anyone?

An interesting thing about the House vote for who gets to be president is that each state only gets one vote - not each member of the House. The blue team would still control things from that point of view 27 states to 21 - two states have an equal number of republican and democrats (interestingly enough Arizona is one of them). However, there are a number of states that McCain is likely to carry that have a majority of democrats in the house (Indiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, West Virginia).

Do you think the vote would go straight party lines (I tend to think so), or would representatives be willing to vote based upon the popular vote of their state?

Would representatives from say West Virgina be risking not getting re-elected if the popular vote in their state was a double digit win for McCain, but they voted for Obama in the House vote?

Another interesting bit about this is that the Electoral College does cast their actual votes until early Dec. So we would have about of month of press coverage and political pundits that might influence the outcome of things - either in the electoral vote, or in the House vote.

Edit in: The vote in the House would include those voted into office during this election - likely to favor the blue team a bit more.
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:52 AM   #1837 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugs
Toss-up states:
CO - 9
NM - 5
NV - 5
VA - 13
fox news pollster rasmussen doesn't have ohio as a toss up?

shocking.
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:56 AM   #1838 (permalink)
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^Heh...up early there ray...
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Old 13-09-2008, 04:05 AM   #1839 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Mee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton View Post
If Palin was a consensus seeking type person she would have a near impossible task in reaching across the aisle given these differences. A pit bull kick ass personality behavior she has apparently used in Alaska will be opposed by a Congress full of a whole pack of far more experienced pit bulls. Partisan divides which now plague the government will severely deepen not lessen.
What you're really trying to say here Norts is if Palin was one of them appeasement types who prefers reading terrorists their rights as opposed to locking 'em up, the country & world would be a better place?
Sad, little one-track mind man.
Pathetic little rhetoric-spewing empty shill for 'Progressive' causes...
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Old 14-09-2008, 11:59 PM   #1840 (permalink)
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A bit of a follow-up on a possible tie in the electoral college:

Colorado just might make a president -- baltimoresun.com

Quote:
McCain, of course, would become president if he picked up every state Bush won last time. But Obama has a good chance to flip two of them back to the Democrats: Iowa and New Mexico. McCain, on the other hand, could set up the very real possibility of a 269-269 electoral college deadlock by taking New Hampshire back for the Republicans.

Expect to hear a lot more about that scenario if the race remains tight over the next month.
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