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Old 05-07-2008, 02:26 PM   #1481 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Texpat View Post
Has it ever occurred to you that people sometimes, genuinely, have a change of heart or a change of mind? Why is that so sinister?
Oh, yes. There are real changes of positions on issues. This is usually after a candidate is office, IMO. During a campaign, there may be genuine changes of positions also. And in these instances, the opponents usually make accusations of "flip-flopping," "Waffling" and, being "wish-washy."

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I don't want a leader so rigid and unyielding that he/she is unwilling to change positions if the situation warrants.
I agree. I want a pragmatic person.
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:00 AM   #1482 (permalink)
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Yes, good point, Tex. As things change, I do expect a leader or anyone to adapt. But, Obama blasted NAFTA in the rust belt states, and then backed free trade in others, where it was more politically expedient to do so.
Is his Iraq position changing simply coz Wesley is on board?
The next few months will be time to really get to know the nitty gritty of the candidates.
I think McCain is smart to get some overseas touring in and get to know leaders. Whether the Columbia trip and freeing of hostages was fixed or not doesn't matter. It's good PR. All smart moves, IMO.
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Old 06-07-2008, 02:35 AM   #1483 (permalink)
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Now this is brilliant.

Quote:
the Democratic nominee-in-waiting and Clinton will hold three fundraisers. Two events are scheduled for Wednesday night — one to raise money for his general election campaign and one to help pay off debts from her primary campaign
Let me get this straight. Hilary Clinton, who, together with husband Bill, made 209 million dollars in the past few years, and who lent her campaign 11 million to further her own career and legacy of her husband and herself, is now going hat in hand to ask hard working Americans to pay herself back for her failed attempt to grab power??????

Incredible.

Obama, Clinton to hold joint fundraisers in NY - Yahoo! News
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:29 AM   #1484 (permalink)
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:31 AM   #1485 (permalink)
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Old 06-07-2008, 12:35 PM   #1486 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee
Let me get this straight. Hilary Clinton, who, together with husband Bill, made 209 million dollars in the past few years, and who lent her campaign 11 million to further her own career and legacy of her husband and herself, is now going hat in hand to ask hard working Americans to pay herself back for her failed attempt to grab power??????
Reeks of an extreme case of Republicanism don't it. Hard working Americans contributing to enrich the rich!
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:04 PM   #1487 (permalink)
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Fools and their money.

Can't pay the mortgage on the house, but willing to prop up their heroes.

Not me.
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Old 06-07-2008, 01:17 PM   #1488 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat
Can't pay the mortgage on the house, but willing to prop up their heroes.
Guess they figure a better ROI than paying their mortgage.
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:36 AM   #1489 (permalink)
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:54 AM   #1490 (permalink)
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FOR HIM BEFORE HE WAS AGAINST HIM: "John Kerry says that John McCain lacks the good judgment necessary to be president. Four years ago, Kerry wanted McCain to be his vice president."
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Old 09-07-2008, 10:55 AM   #1491 (permalink)
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Looks like some of the Clinton supporters are still not to keen on moving into the Obama nation:

Quote:
Obama Faces Resistance From
Top Supporters of Clinton

By JOHN R. EMSHWILLER and CHRISTOPHER COOPER
July 7, 2008; Page A1
Sen. Barack Obama, the presumed Democratic presidential nominee, faces dissent from dozens of top fund-raisers and other supporters of former rival Sen. Hillary Clinton, who are angry over how she was treated during their bruising primary battle and are hesitating to back Sen. Obama.
Obama Faces Resistance From Top Supporters of Clinton - WSJ.com

This blogger and Clinton backer seems more than a bit put off by some of Obama's flip-flops/ moves toward the center:
Quote:
OBAMA SIGNALS ENDLESS WAR IN IRAQ, SELLOUTS ON FISA, NAFTA, AND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM

WANTED: 175 HONEST DEMOCRATIC DELEGATES TO LEAVE FRAUDULENT OBAMA IN DENVER!

SENATOR CLINTON MUST BE OUR NOMINEE
DEMOCRATS DID NOT VOTE FOR THE OBAMA WHO HAS BEEN RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AFTER JUNE 3RD

175 PATRIOTS CAN SAVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BY NOMINATING THE TRUER DEMOCRAT

PUMAS URGE YOU TO BRING TO AND END WHAT HAS HAS BEEN A MOST FRAUDULENT CAMPAIGN

Sugar N Spice: PUMA Call to DNC Delegates


And here is a Clinton supporter who lists some of the many other web sites with other Clinton backers who will not let go of the Hillary dream:
Just Say No Deal
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:04 PM   #1492 (permalink)
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Nothing less glamorous than sore losers.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:19 PM   #1493 (permalink)
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Bugs:
Quote:
This blogger and Clinton backer seems more than a bit put off by some of Obama's flip-flops/ moves toward the center


As Norton aptly, noted. Presidential candidates usually (but not always) flip-flop for a calculated political reason. Or, they just change their opinion on a complicated issue.

Obama's flip-flop (was it really a flip-flop?) might have been done to help him politically. Or, perhaps it was a change in his opinion.

(Norton, if you didn't say this, I'll delete my sentence and retract.)
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:25 PM   #1494 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milkman
As Norton aptly, noted. Presidential candidates usually (but not always) flip-flop for a calculated political reason. Or, they just change their opinion on a complicated issue.
Yep. I said that or the equivalent in one of the many threads where flip flops are a recurrent theme.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:27 PM   #1495 (permalink)
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^ Are you sure? is that your final answer? Not to late to change your mind... ?
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:27 PM   #1496 (permalink)
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I don't think Norton said that. I think he's flopping to appear congenial. How pathetic.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:43 PM   #1497 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat
I don't think Norton said that. I think he's flopping to appear congenial. How pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntRobertson
^ Are you sure? is that your final answer? Not to late to change your mind... ?
For today I mean it. However, I do reserve the right to do a complete U turn if it is in my best interests.

There is a very fine line between idealism and stubbornness.
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:54 PM   #1498 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat View Post
I don't think Norton said that. I think he's flopping to appear congenial. How pathetic.
Has ant got you on Ignore too, Tex?
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:24 AM   #1499 (permalink)
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Obama is showing his political swirly dirlies, that's all. Chasing the populist wind, IMO. And now to show his great appeal, he will stage the Dem convention in an open space so all of his adoring public can come, too. What a guy.
The more he shows hisself, the more I think he is a poser-monger and he will do nothing good for the country. He's just a "look at me, I'm a star, everyone loves me, I can do no wrong" kinda guy. He starts losing that appeal with weird policies, he will collapse. As prez, he cannot abstain from taking a stand on issues like he has as senator. People need to understand his run-away policies. Fluff with no substance. IMHO.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:33 PM   #1500 (permalink)
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