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lom · 28-02-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Both candidates look like sh*te -- Hill's face has tightened (sorry, someone else mentioned that already) and OB's is drawn and gaunt (those nose to chin lines are getting deeply etched) . Also, Obama was fidgety with his hands.

Ahh, now we are down to the essentials for becoming a US president.
Aren't there any retired movie stars available nowadays?

Jet Gorgon · 28-02-2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Both candidates look like sh*te -- Hill's face has tightened (sorry, someone else mentioned that already) and OB's is drawn and gaunt (those nose to chin lines are getting deeply etched) . Also, Obama was fidgety with his hands.

Ahh, now we are down to the essentials for becoming a US president.
Aren't there any retired movie stars available nowadays?

I forgot to mention Hillie got a hair cut and streaks just for the debate it seems. But, the one streak in the centre right above her forehead looks like a coverup for a sprout of gray.

Bamboy is sick coz his collar don't fit no mo.

I also noticed that not only Bammy is a southpaw but so is McCain!!!!!!!!!!!!! But, Bammy writes funny, like he scrawls with his hand curled. I, on the other hand, oh no, I mean I on the same hand, have an unusual proper left hand pen-grasping ability. Must be coz I paint, too.
Aren't you guys glad I'm covering the personal details for ya?

good2bhappy · 28-02-2008, 09:23 AM

Hope Obama wins

AntRobertson · 28-02-2008, 09:23 AM

^^ Or alternatively someone with a jaundice causing illness that gives the impression of a 'healthy' tan.

Norton · 28-02-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Aren't you guys glad I'm covering the personal details for ya?

Yes and thanks.

Being a lefty will not be a problem for Obama but anything with the word left associated with McCain could have a political backlash!

lom · 28-02-2008, 10:52 AM

I noticed that Hillary looked a lot paler than Obama, maybe it's she who is sick..

Milkman · 28-02-2008, 11:16 AM

Thanks for the reply and observations, Jet.

I saw portions of the debate on Youtube, which takes 10 portions based on 1 or 2 topics. I like it this way. I could watch the topics I wanted to see.

I am biased, but I thought Hillary didn't make any new points.

Norton · 28-02-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milkman

I am biased, but I thought Hillary didn't make any new points.

She didn't and after all the speeches and debates I doubt either her or Obama can or would make any new points. Hillary's campaign started with the assumption she was a shoe in for the nomination and the underlying theme was "experience". 20/20 hindsight makes it clear she and her advisor's underestimated Obama's ability to deliver his message of "change" and the real sense of the voters that change is needed. All she can do from this point forward is stay the course she has set. Obama on the other hand need make no new points as the one that has propelled him into his winning position is working.

Hootad Binky · 04-03-2008, 03:01 AM

Can you imagine how sick the candidates are of campaigning?

but they deserve it.

Now O and H are saying they're going to renege on or "renegotiate" (!) the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) with their largest trading partner, Canada, and Mexico.

Wait a second, can/should/might the US withdraw unilaterally from an agreement as large as this? I think the candidates are talking through their hats just to get votes.

I don't think the US business community and its army of lobbyists are going to let any administration lose preferential access/control of:

- Canadian oilsands
- Mexican corn
- a dispute-resolution mechanism that frequently rules in US favour

Could it be the 20,000 or so layoffs in Ohio in recent years have something to do with it?

John McCain, to his credit, has scoffed at such a politically-transparent, policy-of-the-moment, which will no doubt be forgotten once in office; undoing a major trade agreement is no minor task.

NAFTA was a big deal in Canada before it was signed; since then the Canadian economy has become more diversified and is actually less tied to the US.

H & O have to be careful, in their current manic zeal for delegates, not to trip over their tongues...

Quote:

Canadian memo recounts Obama adviser's meeting

Updated Mon. Mar. 3 2008

Sen. Barack Obama's campaign was thrown on the defensive today after a memo surfaced showing the U.S. presidential candidate's senior economic policy adviser told Canadian diplomats that Obama's call to renegotiate NAFTA was only campaign rhetoric.

The Canadian memo supports what CTV News reported exclusively last week, that Obama adviser Austan Goolsbee assured Canadian officials that the senator's tough talk on the North American Free Trade deal should not be taken seriously by the Harper government.

"Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign,'' said the memo.

"He cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plans.''

The memo is the first documentation to emerge publicly out of a meeting that CTV reported on between Goolsbee and the Canadian consulate in Chicago. But the memo's contents are being disputed by Goolsbee.

On Monday, Obama's Democratic rival Sen. Hillary Clinton held up the memo as evidence of doublespeak, saying it shows Obama's campaign was giving Canadians "the old wink-wink" about North American free trade.

"I don't think people should come to Ohio and tell the people of Ohio one thing and then have your campaign tell a foreign government something else behind closed doors," Clinton said in a statement.

"That's the kind of difference between talk and action and that I've been pointing out in this campaign."

The debate over NAFTA emerged after both Obama and Clinton took aim at the North American Free Trade Agreement in a Democratic presidential candidates' debate last Tuesday.
Obama said he would use the agreement's six-month cancellation clause as a leveraging tool to renegotiate it.

"I think we should use the hammer of a potential opt out as leverage to ensure that we actually get labour and environmental standards that are enforced," he said.

Prior to Obama's comments on NAFTA, Clinton said she would also opt out of the trade agreement unless it was renegotiated.

When asked if she felt the agreement was a mistake, she said, "NAFTA was a mistake to the extent that it did not deliver on what we hoped it would."

CTV also reported last week that sources said the Clinton campaign has made indirect contact with the Canadian government, trying to reassure Ottawa of their support despite Clinton's words. The Clinton camp denied the claim.

The Canadian embassy has denied it was ever called by either the Clinton or Obama camps.

more at: CTV.ca | Canadian memo recounts Obama adviser's meeting

Boon Mee · 04-03-2008, 04:22 AM

"If Obama can't handle a goody two shoes country like Canada how the heck is he going to deal with Iran, Syria, China, Russia, France and other countries that have a somewhat higher level of difficulty? . . . This is like watching someone get bucked off one of the coin op kiddies horses they have at the supermarket."

Instapundit.com

No shit...

Hootad Binky · 04-03-2008, 04:28 AM

It's a trade issue, what does

Quote:

Syria

have to do with it?

McCain doesn't want to renegotiate NAFTA, does that make him a patsy, too?

The issue is how good America's word is after they've signed an international trade deal after many months of negotiation.

I found this comment interesting:

Quote:

The interesting thing to me about this whole episode seems to be that both the Obama and Clinton comments are, in essence, saying that they absolutely DO intend to be protectionist, anti-trade presidents if elected. And both seem to be more stridently painting themselves into this corner as the charges and counter-charges are thrown around.

Neither candidate has the least intention of renegotiating NAFTA, imho (in addition to the more pressing concerns of healthcare, immigration, the war(s) and the faltering economy). Obama's camp blundered and got caught.

Jet Gorgon · 04-03-2008, 07:10 AM

^ I think Boonie's quote refers to how will OB handle potentially explosive political situations in other countries rather than trade. The quote seems to mock OB for pandying to golly-gee Canada.
I thought Ohio lost more than 20,000 mfg jobs? Anyway, where did they go? Certainly not to Canada (we have a mfg industry? Oh ya, cars in Ontario and um, um, um. Help me out here, Hootad.) Maybe Ohio papers don't post world news, but I know, once a thought is ingrained in people's minds, they just flog it to death and beyond.
I am surprised they have not mentioned the loss of jobs to China, India and other low-cost economies. I'm also waiting to see some real numbers put down for taxes, healthcare, mortgage rescue, defense, social welfare, etc. I like to see the facts.
Obama is also in deep doodoo for retracting on his public finance only funding claim. Uh oh. He came into this as the honest joe, and he's waffled on two issues now. Sure, nobody gives a dam about where his campaign will be financed from, but his reneging on that is making him lose face as is his call to the CDN ambassador that his anti-NAFTA words are just campaign rhetoric. Not a good sign. I said it before, his main credibility is being honest and a-political in the sense of following the "old guard".
Tuesday night in Ohio and Texas will be interesting. A pal in Ohio says Hilde's clan members called her three times today. She told them, "How many times do I have to tell you I am a Republican?" hehe

Hootad Binky · 04-03-2008, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

The quote seems to mock OB for pandying to golly-gee Canada.

I presume you meant "pandering;" if so, how do you think Obama pandering to Canada?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

I thought Ohio lost more than 20,000 mfg jobs?

Quote:

Ohio alone had lost a net 50,000 jobs as a result of NAFTA, according to a 2006 analysis by the Economic Policy Institute in Washington.

...Three-way trade has soared and unemployment in the U.S. is substantially lower now than it was 14 years ago -- 4.9% in January 2008 compared with 6.6% in January 1994. American shoppers have benefited from lower prices on imported goods, and U.S.-based multinational companies have boosted their competitiveness by whittling production costs.

Yet there is growing wariness among the public that the U.S. is giving away more than it's getting. After all, the nation has lost 3.1 million manufacturing jobs since 1994, and its trade deficit with Mexico and Canada has risen to $138.5 billion last year from $9.1 billion in 1993.

Sign Up

Jet Gorgon · 04-03-2008, 06:43 PM

^^^^^^ What did I say in this post, Hootad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Canada (we have a mfg industry? Oh ya, cars in Ontario...

Our main mfg is cars. As noted in your quote, our main exports are timber and oil. Maybe throw in power to the US. Not mfg really. That chart is misleading (mfg growth in US & Cdn). The base of 100 is disparate -- it indicates growth but not the actual number of folks, and that graph obviously shows the jump in jobs in the auto industry that shifted to Canada when the loonie was lower than the US dollar over 1980-2003. Please tell me what products in your house were "mfg" in Canada besides Habitat pea soup and maple syrup. Service industry? Ya, cheap jobs in tourism. Face it, Canuck super industries are all based on our natural resources, not Canuck innovation. Oh, except the Blackberry.

Hootad Binky · 05-03-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

^^^^^^ What did I say in this post, Hootad?

Yes, our export economy is based mostly on raw materials, which we aren't running out of anytime soon. But we also have a large manufacturing base and the largest part of our economy is actually the service sector. The graph is from Statistics Canada.

So anyway looked at CNN this morning, still too close to call... I hope Obama wins just to settle things. Hilary has more experience but we've been seeing her face for 16 years now and it's time for a fresh approach.

good2bhappy · 04-03-2008, 07:29 AM

So who is it going to be
Osama or Hillarious?

Jet Gorgon · 04-03-2008, 08:12 AM

^^ Thanks, Hoots. But dem der mfg jobs never vanished up to Canada, now did they? Our trade surplus went up from our natural resource exports, nothing else. (I don't need facts to back that statement, coz we don't have anything else worthy of export, except mebbe my writing services

).
I meant pandying, but in a "phony" backslap of hand way.

Hootad Binky · 04-03-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

But dem der mfg jobs never vanished up to Canada, now did they?

Why is that impossible?

The Rising Dollar: Explanation and Economic Impacts

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Our trade surplus went up from our natural resource exports, nothing else. (I don't need facts to back that statement, coz we don't have anything else worthy of export

Quote:

Canada is the home to the eighth largest economy in the world [1](measured in US dollars at market exchange rates)[2], is one of the world's wealthiest nations, and a member of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and Group of Eight (G8). As with other developed nations, the Canadian economy is dominated by the service industry, which employs about three quarters of Canadians[citation needed]. Canada is unusual among developed countries in the importance of the primary sector, with the logging and oil industries being two of Canada's most important. Canada also has a sizable manufacturing sector, centred in Central Canada, with the automobile industry especially important.

International trade makes up a large part of the Canadian economy, particularly of its natural resources. The United States is by far its largest trading partner, accounting for about 79% of exports and 65% of imports as of 2006.[3] Canada's combined exports and imports ranked 8th among all nations in 2006 .[4].

Canada is a mixed market or social market economy,[5] which, according to the Heritage Foundation ranks higher on the "index of economic freedom" than most western European countries but lower than the U.S.[6]. Canada ranks among the most developed countries on the Human development index, with a GDP per capita lower than and a median household income roughly equal to that of the United States.

Economy of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Norton · 04-03-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

But dem der mfg jobs

My, my jetty! Seems Michelle Obamaism's are even beginning to catch on with her critics!

Milkman · 04-03-2008, 11:06 AM

As for the NAFTA.

NAFTA is not going anywhere. It's not going to be changed. This is election rhetoric.

In a few weeks, we probably won't hear about NAFTA again.

Tomorrow morning, I'll wake up, and find out the results of Ohio and Texas (and two other small states).

With the proportional delegate allocation, both Hillary and Obama may still be close in delegates, and Hillary just stated she's staying in the race regardless of the results of Ohio and Texas, which are seemingly neck and neck at the polls.

04-03-2008, 04:22 AM	#10 (permalink)
Boon Mee Thailand Travel Forum Last Online: Today 07:30 AM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 12,913	"If Obama can't handle a goody two shoes country like Canada how the heck is he going to deal with Iran, Syria, China, Russia, France and other countries that have a somewhat higher level of difficulty? . . . This is like watching someone get bucked off one of the coin op kiddies horses they have at the supermarket." Instapundit.com No shit... __________________ ผมเป็นคนบ้านนอก

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28-02-2008, 09:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
good2bhappy Thailand Travel Forum Last Online: Today 12:56 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Klong Samwa Posts: 11,056	Hope Obama wins

28-02-2008, 09:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
AntRobertson Ich Bin Ein Auslander Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,721	^^ Or alternatively someone with a jaundice causing illness that gives the impression of a 'healthy' tan.

28-02-2008, 10:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
lom #&§~ Last Online: Today 12:35 PM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dark side of the room Posts: 5,158	I noticed that Hillary looked a lot paler than Obama, maybe it's she who is sick..

28-02-2008, 11:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
Milkman Gone Off Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: shelf Posts: 15,355	Thanks for the reply and observations, Jet. I saw portions of the debate on Youtube, which takes 10 portions based on 1 or 2 topics. I like it this way. I could watch the topics I wanted to see. I am biased, but I thought Hillary didn't make any new points.

04-03-2008, 07:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
Jet Gorgon Jihad Barbie Last Online: Today 04:50 AM Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Near Libbies Posts: 12,470	^ I think Boonie's quote refers to how will OB handle potentially explosive political situations in other countries rather than trade. The quote seems to mock OB for pandying to golly-gee Canada. I thought Ohio lost more than 20,000 mfg jobs? Anyway, where did they go? Certainly not to Canada (we have a mfg industry? Oh ya, cars in Ontario and um, um, um. Help me out here, Hootad.) Maybe Ohio papers don't post world news, but I know, once a thought is ingrained in people's minds, they just flog it to death and beyond. I am surprised they have not mentioned the loss of jobs to China, India and other low-cost economies. I'm also waiting to see some real numbers put down for taxes, healthcare, mortgage rescue, defense, social welfare, etc. I like to see the facts. Obama is also in deep doodoo for retracting on his public finance only funding claim. Uh oh. He came into this as the honest joe, and he's waffled on two issues now. Sure, nobody gives a dam about where his campaign will be financed from, but his reneging on that is making him lose face as is his call to the CDN ambassador that his anti-NAFTA words are just campaign rhetoric. Not a good sign. I said it before, his main credibility is being honest and a-political in the sense of following the "old guard". Tuesday night in Ohio and Texas will be interesting. A pal in Ohio says Hilde's clan members called her three times today. She told them, "How many times do I have to tell you I am a Republican?" hehe

04-03-2008, 07:29 AM	#16 (permalink)
good2bhappy Thailand Travel Forum Last Online: Today 12:56 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Klong Samwa Posts: 11,056	So who is it going to be Osama or Hillarious?

04-03-2008, 08:12 AM	#17 (permalink)
Jet Gorgon Jihad Barbie Last Online: Today 04:50 AM Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Near Libbies Posts: 12,470	^^ Thanks, Hoots. But dem der mfg jobs never vanished up to Canada, now did they? Our trade surplus went up from our natural resource exports, nothing else. (I don't need facts to back that statement, coz we don't have anything else worthy of export, except mebbe my writing services ). I meant pandying, but in a "phony" backslap of hand way.

04-03-2008, 11:06 AM	#20 (permalink)
Milkman Gone Off Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: shelf Posts: 15,355	As for the NAFTA. NAFTA is not going anywhere. It's not going to be changed. This is election rhetoric. In a few weeks, we probably won't hear about NAFTA again. Tomorrow morning, I'll wake up, and find out the results of Ohio and Texas (and two other small states). With the proportional delegate allocation, both Hillary and Obama may still be close in delegates, and Hillary just stated she's staying in the race regardless of the results of Ohio and Texas, which are seemingly neck and neck at the polls.

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