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Jet Gorgon

^^ Ant, Hanoi Jane, prime example. I also think that folks get brainwashed by the press (I know, I was a journalist and I saw how my copy got mangled by the editors), and the papers will slant the view.

Back to the elec. I see Barack has garnered major grassroot support. Any thoughts on this folks? Will the corporations and industries let him muscle in? Sure, IMO, grassroots is good if you have a plan to sustain and improve the economy. Giving away via taxes the profits of people who have a vision and the motivation to make their biz work (aka Ayn Rand) will only cause these people to move their business elsewhere. Then where will the hand-outs come from?

Hootad Binky

And what if that "first-hand info" was bought and paid for by a Republican donor?

Please explain JG how your information is better than actual Navy records

Hootad Binky

Therefore grassroots is bad if you don't have a plan? Is that your point? Is this how your copy as a "journalist" reads? It's cognitively dyslexic.
Well, thanks for the economics lesson. What are we supposed to do now, ban taxes? GWB's budget dwarfs Reagan's, and guess what: it's based on taxes! It's the largest deficit in American history - from a Republican. Care to explain that for us, too? Your Fischer-Price grasp of the topics at hand is entertaining

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Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone elses opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. -Oscar Wilde

njdesi

This is a good article about Obama that relies on a primary, verifiable source, his record in the Senate. I'll try to find a link to McCain's legislative record for the past four years.

Daily Kos: I Refuse to Buy into the Obama Hype (now a supporter)

His record shows a progressive, but also an emphasis on transparent government and enforcement of anti-fraud measures.

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njdesi

For McCain, go to this website and then select John McCain in the Senator dropdown box in the "Browse Bills by Sponsors"

THOMAS (Library of Congress)

He sponsored bills mostly related to the military and campaign finance reform.

Mr Earl

Obama gets applause for blowing his nose!
Does this say something about his erudite supporters?
link

Hootad Binky

^ No, it says he's popular!
Why is it then that Republicans are incapable of balancing a budget, and GWB took a surplus and turned it into the largest deficit in American history?

Hmmm?

sabang

Fair point, and I am certainly waiting to see some numbers rather than visions and campaign promises from all of the candidates. But give him his due, Obama's a smart cookie- prolly the most cerebral of any of the contenders.

I think the upper 10% of net worth people in the States can expect to pay more tax, whoever gets in. It has never seemed fair to me that they can get away with paying a lower rate of tax to the nation that afforded them their fortune than the middle and working classes.

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To err is human. To blame someone else is politics.

Jet Gorgon

Another Canadian socialist comment from you, Hootie. Of course it's bad if you don't have a plan. No matter what party. Grassroots folk often think the gov has a big fat coffer that they just need to break like a pinata and then everyone will be rich!
Oh, boy, you are a Canadian socialist. Taxes and the fiscal deficit are not related honeybunny. Of course we all need to pay taxes; governments don't sell cola for a living. Duh. Some country admins are better at managing that money, and funds they also receive from the Treasury market (you know, they offer bonds to investors for a certain percentage rate so they can use the money for stuff that taxes do not cover. Duh.)
Face it Hootie, you just want a socialist world, where someone who worked hard to get an education, excel in work and expand in business is cut down coz the people who say they didn't have that chance (ie, were too fekin lazy or stupid to go for it) now want to reap the benefits of the people who did work their butts off to succeed.

Milkman

Please provde a link for the above, quote, Tex. You have to cite it. Can you do so within 2 hours?

And as for taxes: it doesn't matter.

All 3 candidates, including McCain are big spenders.

AntRobertson

Perhaps you'd like to stick to the issue period, Earl. This is a thread about the US Presidential comapaign.

Norton

Well I'll be jiggered. Here all this time I thought if I spent more than I made I would be in debt.

Hootad Binky

Actually, many grassroots groups are anti-tax.
Why not?
Most taxes come from the middle class; GWB cut taxes for the rich. Is that what you're talking about?

Jet Gorgon

^^ True, Norton. I was looking at Hootad's view as income taxes, as that seems to be the predominant focus here. Any govt makes $ from a variety of taxes (altho different levels get different rev sources). I think it is fair to say, that most fed govt's run at a deficit, which means they are not over-taxing and are reinvesting the wealth in social programs and/or lower taxes, etc, to keep the economy going. Sure, the US is mired in the red with its biggest deficit in history. But, translate deficits from the past into current currencies. My mom made $1.50 an hour 40 years ago and maintained a household with three kids; our rent was extravagant at $85/month. It's all relative.

Anyway, for election video lovers, this MSNBC has many NBC news/talk show clips, updated daily. (Sorry to those whose Inet connectins are too slow to receive.)
I like this Tucker host, who asks who is Obama really, and what's he going to do? True, none of the candidates have a solid platform in place, but as commentors note, Obama gives people hope. If he gets in (probable as ChinThee notes), will Ruros and Asians wave US flags and kss Americans?
One unemployed US factory worker in the rust belt said it best, noting that hope is a good thing, and "let's keep jobs in America" jingoism sounds great, but let's see the beef, man.

msnbc.com Video Player

^Sorry, Hootad, you sneaked that comment in on me. Sure the grassroots folks want lower taxes for THEM -- tax the crap outta the rich! Sure, and tax the crap out of the big corporations and then let the unions suck them dry, like they did to the US automakers. That's why most oil companies are flush with cash -- many US oil cos are incorporated in Bermuda or another tax-free haven, and that's what gets the goat of the Dems. Mind, I doubt the Dems will lift the tax off gas at the pump, do you?

Hootad Binky

^ But socialized medicine makes it cheaper for General motors to relocate in Canada, for instance, since they no longer have to cover employees' medical insurance. Which is why auto workers are being laid off in the US and hired in Canada, where these jobs strengthen the tax base and provide local communities with long-term, high-paid jobs.

And what about corporate welfare? What about governments routinely bailing out failed or fraudulent banks and businesses with political connections, like the savings and loan debacle? Or the Enrons and Worldcoms squandering employees' pensions? Who's supposed to pick up the bill for that?

You guessed it, the taxpayer.

You say most governments run on a deficit.

Not "socialist" Canada:

Not "socialist" British Columbia, either.

What "deficit"? Taxes in Canada have remained steady. Meanwhile, property values continue to increase across the country and the economy is still growing. Why do you insist the US, with it's legions of poor, tax breaks for the rich, and gargantuan debt, has a better system?

It doesn't. It's a crap system.

How about posting some actual data for a change.

Hootad Binky

You mean this Tucker host?



He was fired from his prime hosting job on CNN's Crossfire after getting badly owned on live television by Jon Stewart regarding the last primary. Basically, he was full of the usual GOP rhetoric, but with nothing to back it up, and he got stung, and stung very badly, on national television:

Jet Gorgon

That it does, strengthen the tax base. That's a crock about the med coverge, Hoot