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AntRobertson

^ You do realise that Norton was addressing that question to Jet, right?

What has Ray got to do with this? Or me for that matter?

Boon Mee

This isn't a court of Law there counselor.

My post was generic in nature - covering all who defend Kerry - most specifically ray...

sabang

HB provided a post about Kerry's wartime record, which was distinguished.
Whats your point booner?

Boon Mee

Au contraire there K. sabang.
What part of 'distinguished' are you confused about?
Kerry spent maybe 8 months in-country during which time he awarded himself at least two Purple Hearts for extremely minor wounds.

His crew testified what a sham he was/is during the last presidential elections...

btw - if it was all that 'distinguished' why hasn't he released his military records???
Heh...

__________________
ผมเป็นคนบ้านนอก

AntRobertson

^^ Actually your post was ill-conceived and addressed at entirely the wrong persons. Oh well, better luck next time.

sabang

No purple heart for this.

I suppose theres no point getting even further off topic and defending Bush, Cheney & co's wartime record.

chinthee

Clinton faces daunting delegate deficit

Clinton faces daunting delegate deficit - Yahoo! News

raycarey

testified? in which court? and btw, weren't you recently crying the blues about 'swiftboating' just a few days ago.

heh.



oh, well.
your country thanks you.

Boon Mee

Your reading/comprehension skills are really starting to suck there ray. Recall how I went to great lengths to illustrate both sides of the political spectrum now use the term 'swiftboating' indiscrimately.

Put the Bong down...

Texpat

^And you as well.

But unlike your sarcastic response to Earl, I'm sincere. Thanks for staying the fcuk out.







No, really.

Jet Gorgon

Here, Doubters. This all came out in the last prez election. These are the vets who served with Kerry. Can't get any better than that for first-hand info. Of course, Ray will say something about the source, but he continues to quote from that oft-error-ridden dis-info site Wikipedia and then quotes the leftist paper in the US, the NY Times. You sure you're not still not State-side, Rayboy?


"Swift Vets and POWs for Truth has been formed to counter the false "war crimes" charges John Kerry repeatedly made against Vietnam veterans who served in our units and elsewhere, and to accurately portray Kerry's brief tour in Vietnam as a junior grade Lieutenant. We speak from personal experience -- our group includes men who served beside Kerry in combat as well as his commanders. Though we come from different backgrounds and hold varying political opinions, we agree on one thing: John Kerry misrepresented his record and ours in Vietnam and therefore exhibits serious flaws in character and lacks the potential to lead.
We regret the need to do this. Most Swift boat veterans would like nothing better than to support one of our own for America's highest office, regardless of whether he was running as a Democrat or a Republican. However, Kerry's phony war crimes charges, his exaggerated claims about his own service in Vietnam, and his deliberate misrepresentation of the nature and effectiveness of Swift boat operations compel us to step forward."

Swift Vets and POWs for Truth - Service to Country

Urban Legends Reference Pages: John Kerry Swift Boats

Hootad Binky

And what if that "first-hand info" was bought and paid for by a Republican donor?

Please explain JG how your information is better than actual Navy records

sabang

Well thanks for a good reference Jet. The 'urban legends reference page' link is interesting reading- and relatively balanced, if you read it to the bottom and get both sides of the story. It certainly seems his shipmates and immediate superiors held him in high esteem.
Urban Legends Reference Pages: John Kerry Swift Boats

It also seems, when he returned stateside and became actively anti-war, he made a lot of enemies (and presumably friends elsewhere). Up to the reader to decide the truth, there are no doubt some political motivations on both sides of the story.

One things for sure- he wasn't awarded two bravery medals by some political process. They were awarded by the US military.

__________________
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

AntRobertson

I found this quote interesting:

Now without knowing the politics of this Gardner chap and taking it on face value as his true and honest opinion - which I think you can - it still needs to be put in context.

That context being that this so-called "swift boat" thing played a large part in the '04 election. So notwithstanding all the foregoing, how is it when compared to Bush's record - AWOL from his Air National Guard duty whilst his colleagues were being called into active service - you could trust him to be Commander-in-Chief but not John Kerry?

Kerry was crucified on the back of this. It really is funny how public perception plays out at times.

__________________
The Revolution will be televised... Eleven o'clock... Channel 10.

Jet Gorgon

^ Part of his platform was not based on phony acts of heroism. That's why Kerry's crew tattled on him.

sabang

Only one of Kerrys crew members spoke against him though Jet. Many more spoke in high favour of him, at least whilst he was in VN.

The negatives you read, well only one was from his crew. The rest were from other boats, or different branches. See the urban legends link you quoted above.

I think all the controversy comes from the simple fact he returned from VN staunchly anti-war. Several of us would say that history proved him right, maybe even perceptive.

AntRobertson

^A valid point. But it was based on leading the nation in the WOT.

Jet Gorgon

^ Alot of military folks return from war disgruntled. However, they don't turn on their own countries.

OK, back to the current campaign. This just in from Barack's e-mail force:

"News broke yesterday that a few wealthy Clinton supporters are gearing up for a massive spending campaign to boost her chances in the big upcoming contests in Texas and Ohio on March 4th.
The so-called "American Leadership Project" will take unlimited contributions from individuals and is organized the same way as the infamous Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
ABC News reports that this group is seeking 100 Clinton supporters to each give $100,000 to fund its $10 million effort to promote Senator Clinton and "contrast" her positions with Barack Obama's.
That's the opposite of how politics should work, and the opposite of how Barack Obama has run this campaign.
The same day this group's activity was revealed, we announced that nearly 1 million individual people have donated to this campaign.
Stand up against politics-as-usual. Be one of the million supporters who are calling out for change.
If you give as part of our matching program, your gift will be doubled by a previous donor. You can even choose to exchange a note with them about why you are part of this movement.
Make your matching donation now:
https://donate.barackobama.com/match
Groups like this are forbidden from working primarily for the purpose of electing or defeating a candidate.
Yet here we have a committee that springs up on the eve of an election, promotes a specific candidate, and has no history or apparent purpose of lobbying specific issues outside the benefit to the candidate of these communications.
This raises a number of legal and ethical issues, but more than anything it reveals an attitude towards politics as a game that is played to win at all costs.
Americans are ready for change. We are tired of Swift Boat-style groups and smear campaigns."

Oops, guess Obama doesn't like Kerry's vocal opponents either. Hehe

AntRobertson

Why is being anti-war automatically equated to "turning" on ones own country? It's entirely conceivable to be against war yet allied to your country.

Jet Gorgon

^^ Ant, Hanoi Jane, prime example. I also think that folks get brainwashed by the press (I know, I was a journalist and I saw how my copy got mangled by the editors), and the papers will slant the view.

Back to the elec. I see Barack has garnered major grassroot support. Any thoughts on this folks? Will the corporations and industries let him muscle in? Sure, IMO, grassroots is good if you have a plan to sustain and improve the economy. Giving away via taxes the profits of people who have a vision and the motivation to make their biz work (aka Ayn Rand) will only cause these people to move their business elsewhere. Then where will the hand-outs come from?