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kerux

Chomsky is a fraud. Most of his books go into depth about how the USG is a rogue out of control military empire but then he finds it incredulous that the USG was behind 9/11.

Chomsky's intellectually dishonest.

Finkelstein is an honest scholar who exposes fraud where he sees it and that's why scum suckers like Dershowitz don't like it.

Finkelstein v Dirtbag Dershowitz here: Democracy Now! | Scholar Norman Finkelstein Calls Professor Alan Dershowitz's New Book On Israel a "Hoax"

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sabang

^ I doubt you know much about Chomsky then kerux. Just because he is not a grand conspiracy theorist does not make him a fraud.
Considering he is often called 'the most important intellectual alive in the world today', I don't think I'll bother saying more.

sabang

ANYWAY, on with the speech-



Well, people here read British reviews—if you're in the American intellectual community, you read the Times Literary Supplement and the London Review, so it began to get a little embarrassing. You started getting back-tracking: people started saying, "Well, look, I didn't really say the book was good, I just said it's an interesting topic," things like that. At that point, the New York Review swung into action, and they did what they always do in these circumstances. See, there's like a routine that you go through—if a book gets blown out of the water in England in places people here will see, or if a book gets praised in England, you have to react. And if it's a book on Israel, there's a standard way of doing it: you get an Israeli scholar to review it. That's called covering your ass—because whatever an Israeli scholar says, you're pretty safe: no one can accuse the journal of anti-Semitism, none of the usual stuff works.

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To err is human. To blame someone else is politics.

sabang

So after the Peters book got blown out of the water in England, the New York Review assigned it to a good person actually, in fact Israel's leading specialist on Palestinian nationalism [Yehoshua Porath], someone who knows a lot about the subject. And he wrote a review, which they then didn't publish—it went on for almost a year without the thing being published; nobody knows exactly what was going on, but you can guess that there must have been a lot of pressure not to publish it. Eventually it was even written up in the New York Times that this review wasn't getting published, so finally some version of it did appear. It was critical, it said the book is nonsense and so on, but it cut corners, the guy didn't say what he knew.

sabang

I'LL SKIP STRAIT TO THE FINAL PARAGRAPH-

Still, in the universities or in any other institution, you can often find some dissidents hanging around in the woodwork—and they can survive in one fashion or another, particularly if they get community support. But if they become too disruptive or too obstreperous—or you know, too effective—they're likely to be kicked out. The standard thing, though, is that they won't make it within the institutions in the first place, particularly if they were that way when they were young—they'll simply be weeded out somewhere along the line. So in most cases, the people who make it through the institutions and are able to remain in them have already internalized the right kinds of beliefs: it's not a problem for them to be obedient, they already are obedient, that's how they got there. And that's pretty much how the ideological control system perpetuates itself in the schools—that's the basic story of how it operates, I think.

THATS THE WAY THINGS WORK.
They don't usually need to shoot you, jail you, or make you disappear in our system for saying or thinking an inconvenient truth. The system handles it even more effectively.
Sadly, more people in the USA believe "Joan Peters"- an established fraud- than believe Finkelstein.
Now perhaps you understand the difficulty of arguing logic with an American educated person about Israel, Zionism and Palestine- you are coming against an ingrained Belief system.

As you can see from MM's post above, Finkelstein is 'excluded' to this day. He would be a senior Professor by now at a prestigious institution if only he would Lie, or not disclose his findings- he is a brilliant mind and scholar.
Even if he gained 'tenure' he would still be excluded- no big name university would have him, no big publisher will publish his books, mainstream media will not publicise them, most bookshops will not stock them. Thank goodness for Amazon.
The Man-

kerux

I may know more about Chomsky than you think, which is why I label him a fraud. How many people approve of someone or something has little to do with what I think of the subject.

It appears Chomsky has good reason to divert attention from the truth of 9/11:

"My research suggests that CAI - the Teachers ('TIAA-CREF') private equity group - and MIT faculty members, including Noam Chomsky, John Deutch, Paul Gray and Charles Vest, used the online resources and knowledge of MIT Center to coordinate multiple acts of arbitrage, sabotage and fraud linked to the 'al-Qaeda' attacks of 9/11.

Some research findings in support of my allegations can be found at the archive site below. http://valis.cjb.cc/HawksCAFE/"

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum."
- Noam Chomsky

"That's an internet theory and it's hopelessly implausible. Hopelessly implausible. So hopelessly implausible I don't see any point in talking about it."
- Noam Chomsky, at a FAIR event at New York's Town Hall, 22 January 2002, in response to a question from the audience about US government foreknowledge of 9/11. At that time, 9/11 investigators had already presented substantial documented evidence for: prior warnings, Air Force stand-down, anomalous insider trading connected to CIA, cover-up of the domestic anthrax attacks, inconsistencies in identities & timelines of "hijackers", US connections to al Qaeda in Balkans, a Pak ISI-al Qaeda funding connection, etc etc etc.

And with this being a thread on Finkelstein, I'll stop with Chomsky there.

stroller

You fail to apply logic, yet again, kerux.
Evidence of prior warning is mere indication of the CIA/Whitehouse perhaps letting it happen, nothing more.

Anyway, we have a few threads on this subject already, kindly continue there with this subject.

kerux

That was back in January 2002 a mere four months from 9/11. We know so much more now and Chomsky is still talking up the Official 9/11 Conspiracy theory [and the official JFK Oswald as 'lone gunman' as well].

And you talk about logic?

stroller

I am glad you noticed.

sabang

Finkelstein's web site-
Norman G. Finkelstein

Apart from being THE academic that proved Joan Peters to be a hoax (so why can you still buy the book in America today??), Norman Finkelstein has further endeared himself to the US academic establishment and international Jewry by his extensive research on the exploitation of the Holocaust by Jews for the purposes of financial, political and sympathetic benefit.

raycarey

good thread sabang.

Milkman

Nice post, Sabang.

I'll buy and read Norman Finkelstein's books and tell everyone I can that he is a good and proven forensic historian.

Dissent is not tolerated in America.

stroller

He hasn't been deported to some Gulag or had a Fatwa on his head, has he?

sabang

Thanks guys.

sabang

Both stroller.
His Gulag is a professorship at an obscure US university- and it took him ages to get promoted from assistant Professor. They also won't grant him 'tenure' which would normally be a given in his situation. He'd in the normal scheme of things be a senior professor or head of department at a harvard, MIT or Stanford by now. Even the University (de Paul) has been pilloried for having him.
His Fatwa has been declared by the Jewish/academic establishment. Part of this is reflected in his mediocre career for a man of his intellectual calibre and achievement, part in the blatantly unfair refusal to grant him tenure. Read his website- wherever he goes on speaking tours, the local Jewish student association preotests, tries to get him turned away, even tries to load his lectures with hostile students. I doubt he's welcome at synagogues, Academic balls, conferences. I doubt his department enjoys any corporate largesse. He is a Pariah in American academia and Jewry.

That is Fatwa and Gulag the American way. read his website links for more details.

kerux

The reason Finkelstein is being attacked is precisely because he is so effective in exposing the lies of the Zionists.

Wallace

I think you meant to say 'exposing the lies of Joan Peters', Kerux.

I've been off the forum for a while and you're still spouting generalisations that do nothing more than expose your own racism.

It's boring, shallow, and shows you can't debate anything in a reasonable way.

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The truth is out there, but then I'm stuck in here.

kerux

I guess you missed my post where I posted Finkelstein's books:



From a reviewer:

The thrust of Professor Finkelstein's unsettling book is that powerful interests (Israel and Jewish organizations in America) have hijacked what has become known as the holocaust. And while Israel has exploited the holocaust as a weapon to deflect criticism, regardless how justified, American Jewish organizations have used the plight of supposedly needy survivors to extort staggering sums of money from the rest of the world. This was done not for the benefit of survivors, but for the financial advantage of these organizations.



And then there's Finkelstein's exposure of Dirtbag Dershowitz's book:

"Mr. Dershowitz has concocted a fraud. In fact Mr. Dershowitz has concocted a fraud which amazingly in large parts, he plagiarized from another fraud. I found that pretty shocking, shocking coming from a Harvard professor. I find it shocking coming from any professor." --Professor Norman Finkelstein

Finkelstein: Dershowitz's New Israel Book A 'Hoax'

Is that specific enough for you? And your claim that I'm racist is so far out in right field that even the beer swilling unemployed bleacher sitting regulars don't know you exist. Why don't you try a little objectivity in your thinking? Or is that too difficult for you?

Like I said:

The reason Finkelstein is being attacked is precisely because he is so effective in exposing the lies of the Zionists.

stroller

"objectivity" - when will you start, kerux, you may gather some respect if you do that.

kerux

Respect from some of the usernames here would be a disgrace to have. Particularly you. That would be like Finkelstein being respected by Dirtbag Dershowitz.