The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

man with no head

That is a part of the discussion: eliminate SS in favor of individual accounts (instead of pooled money).

But we are carrying the burden....15% of everyone's wages up to $97,000 pays for this burden. What about everyone else?


And because we have a social insurance policy it keeps people from being responsible. You can literally gamble everything away because the government will take care of you.


Banks. The deposits are also insured in case the bank fails, so, there's no risk at all. You turn over some money for a set period of time and you are guaranteed a return. It's not as sexy as stocks and futures but it's guaranteed.

It's not the Treasury bonds that are at issue. It's the special bonds that Treasury only owes to the SS fund.

If the government defaults who will get their money last? A foreign country with a large army? A large brokerage house? Or an agency of the same government?

Really, where is the risk to the politicians if SS goes bankrupt and the Treasury fails to pay back money to the SS account as long as the Treasury still pays its bills to everyone else?

blackgang

You are just spouting again, they take 7.65% from you and 7.65% from your employer up to $97,000 gross income that you make, so it is not 15% from the employee.
It is the same treasury that will pay the banks as will pay to SSA, if they are broke they can pay no one.
Banks have no cash either, just like SSA. everyone does business on paper.
If the treasury ever admits it is broke and the people find out there will be runs on banks so they will never let it be known, how many times have thewy been close? no one will tell but every time they do all they do is print up some mopre worthless $100 bill and let them out on the market, and then the value goesd down, it has gone from a $1 to 15 cents since 1960 just by the practise I am talking about.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Political Correctness: A doctrine, fosteredby a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

man with no head

It's still 15% of your wages because of the tax laws.


It is the same treasury that will pay the banks as will pay to SSA, if they are broke they can pay no one.[/quote]

I'll post this for the last time because it gets old repeating myself: the SS surplus is a paper loan.

If you are in financial dire straits who gets paid first? Mortgage, right? Then comes car payments, furniture, etc (all secured). Utilities, food. Credit cards come last.

In a similar fashion, when the notes come due, do you really think the money will be there? Or will most Americans, like yourself, still have their heads in the sand?

I can walk to my bank right now and demand all my money back.

So, why shouldn't I be able to do the same with my retirement?

stroller

Because it's for retirement, so you won't become a burden to society and have a decent living standard when you're too old to work. It's the 'generation contract', which has replaced the role the large family used to have.

Yeah, this is going round in circles.

Now, if you are self-employed, you're assumed to have shown some monetary management capabilities and you have a choice.

blackgang

Damn rights you should, they are bound to have less than $100 in cash.

And anytime that SSA needs the money in their checking account, the FED will give em the amount they need in the account and subtract so much paper and it is comes to it that the T aint got any paper to swap, then the will print up some more money to cover it,,
They can do that since this day[20] in March 1968, thats the date that the US went off gold standard and started using worthless paper.

There is no way that the US govt is gonna go broke,,jesus christ I thought you were smarter than that, altho from what you post most of the time even I wonder about that.

Maybe you should read "The Crash of 79" it is easy to understand so you shouldn't have to much trouble, maybe your wife can help you..

man with no head

Self-employed also must pay the 15% into SS.

We should all adopt BG's morals and just cheat our way through life. It would be very easy to simply tell the government I don't make a dime from tips and I would save myself thousands of dollars in the process. Hell, while I'm at it I'll take my gun and blow away my neighbor's head next time the stereo is too loud. But then that would lower me to the level of the gutter in which certain other forum members seem to live.

"Don't like the system; cheat."

The only real underachiever on this forum is the one on welfare, cough, I mean Social Security right now. Pretty funny, actually, when you think about it.

Milkman

One of my friends started his own business.

Worked 14+ hours per day.


Got killed because he had to pay his full 15%.


His own business. Only him.


Eventually he said "f*ck it" for this and B & O tax reasons in WA state and worked for someone else.


Socialist.... Insecurity.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

_____________

man with no head

I bet that he didn't know that half of that was deductible against Federal income taxes. Of course if you pay no Federal tax then you're screwed. I took it up the ass as well when I was self-employed. It's such a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that 15% of your working hours are spent so someone else can live in retirement.

The whole system is a mess. Get rid of all of it and have a simple tax that funds everything. And while we're at it let me make my retirement choices.

I think it's ironic that the left wants to allow a woman to make a choice whether or not to keep an unborn child but won't let the child when born make a choice whether or not to participate in mandatory retirement schemes.

Boon Mee

And I'm going to enjoy every minute of mine knowing I have earned it.
We all make choices in life - you want to opt out of Federal tax (earned income) and SS? Get a job working overseas...simple.

stroller

Ah, ok, this is US specific.

I don't see the connection there... What does your friend's business uncompetitiveness in a capitalist society have to do with socialism and insecurity?

man with no head

Simple.

Socialist....meaning not something you should find in a capitalist society. We eliminated welfare in 1996 and it didn't cause people to live in the streets. Can we please eliminate Social Security by 2016?

Insecurity....because it's a scam and it won't be there when neither he nor I retire...or at least on the terms we are being told now. Meaning that when we retire either 'benefits' will be cut, retirement age will be raised, or the SS taxes will go up (again). Meaning unlike the older ones here we're going to be screwed because the system as they know it won't provide us the same level playing field. It's a flawed system since the ratio of workers to retirees is always decreasing. This means that before long there will be one worker supporting one retirees (involuntary slavery). When the system was created about 16 workers paid in while one 'collected.' Now it's broken and the politicians won't fix it.

blackgang

You can,, no one says you have to work, pay taxes or live in a country that you hate as much as you hate the USA.
If you do not like what they do with the money that you are taxed, then do not give it to them, simple really so even as simple as you are you should understand that.
Milkman doesn't like it either, so he has left the security of govt protection that you so crave and went out into the world to make his own way,
He seems to be doing a fine job of it and has no bitch, but you do not have the guts or anything else that it takes to cut the gut and go off and make it on your own, so all you can do is bitch and snivel about how bad you are taking it in the ass.
There is as much welfare being paid today as ever and there are more homeless people than ever before in the history of the country.

Jesus Christ, but you are a simple minded pathetic bastard, why don't you go in the bathroom and drink a can of Drano.

Boon Mee

You know, I've been bashing surasack for a long time now but I think BG has articulated the essence of K. surasack the best. I've also repeatedly made suggestions on how he can avoid taxes and we still get an ear-bashing on how 'unfair' the whole system is.

A congenital complainer...

__________________
ผมเป็นคนบ้านนอก

Milkman

SS was just one of the hits he was taking. B & O hit him, too.

I'm just saying that the small business man is punished, and part of this punished is because of the full payment (not shared) into SS.

lom

A true conservative , a big egoist.

blackgang

Yes MM, but if you are self employed then you can choose not to pay it at all and do what ever you want for a pension plan.
Railroad workers are not on the SSA roles, nor are some muni employees, and they have the RR pension plan, nor are govt employees as far as I know.
But there is no way that you can ever draw from the fund tho if you didn't pay in unless you are an illegal alien in the USA and then you are welcome to draw..
In fact in Chula Vista or San Diego SSA offices there are so many mexicans in the office that they are taken and a citizen might have to wait in line for 2 or 3 days for a small bit of service.

Milkman

I am self-employed now but won't be forever.

I also do assume that I'll return to the U.S. someday in the future for various reasons - temporarily - and will work there a little, or more.

But overseas is where my heart and mind are.

Because I'm overseas, I obviously don't have a 401K, but at least I max the ROTH IRA out and put taxable "retirement" funds in the Vanguard total stock market index fund (low turnover).

As for government employees, I believe they pay into SS now after a change that took plase in the 1980s.


Cheers.

man with no head