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Jet Gorgon

Even the CBO says so. Sorry, I was out by 2mil. (And this quote is from the libbie NYT.)

An analysis released Monday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office raised the hurdles for draft legislation in the Senate just as its Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee planned to begin voting on Wednesday. The office concluded that a plan by the committee’s Democratic leaders, Senators Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut, would reduce the number of uninsured only by a net 16 million people. Even if the bill became law, the budget office said, 36 million people would remain uninsured in 2017.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/he...y/16obama.html

jim1176

You are describing the current system, what is needed is less free (company provided) insurance and higher deductibles so people take responsibility for themselves. Insurance should be for major medical bills, not a DR visit. The entire current system is a scam. Any Thai in the US should be denied outright or charged double, fcuk off.

Jet Gorgon

Interesting. Why are the unions (being big Obama supporters and all) against this change and the taxation that will likely be applied to these "greedy" folks who get these bennies ($15k-$22k in health benefits for union members a year)?

foreigner

but BS supported by the majority in a democratic society:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/he...er=rss&emc=rss

Americans overwhelmingly support substantial changes to the health care system and are strongly behind one of the most contentious proposals Congress is considering, a government-run insurance plan to compete with private insurers, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.

The poll found that most Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes so everyone could have health insurance and that they said the government could do a better job of holding down health-care costs than the private sector.

__________________

• You can fake an orgasism but you can't fake laughter ~ Bob Dylan
• I've heard it said that they can now make fuel from horse manure.... Now, I don't know if your car will be able to get 10 km per liter, but it's sure gonna put a stop to siphoning.

raycarey

yes, americans do overwhelmingly support a govt. administered health insurance program.



http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll_graphic_ready.html

Milkman

There is a lot of propaganda right now about the health care system and possible ways to improve it. It's so complicated that I don't follow it too closely. But once again, as a US citizen I know first hand how bad the health care is in the US.

Something has to be done. I don't know what but something has to be done. An acquaintance of mine works full time, and has no health insurance. Got in a motorbike accident wearing a helmet. had scrapes and bruises, but also a very bad headache.

He went to ER. Cat Scan of his brain $3,000+ and patches = a total bill of over $6,000+ USD.

Jet Gorgon

^ Huh. Do illegal immigrants have to pay at ER?

Norton

Pretty clear the first step is to get cost under control. If this could be done, I doubt there would be an issue. BTW, getting cost under control is exactly what the Obama administration is proposing.

Jet Gorgon

^ 55555 Costs for who, Norts? What's the CBO estimate for the plan? Over $1.6 tril now innit? Oh ya, but folks' individual costs will go down coz their care with also go down and docs and hospitals will say FO. Hello, United States of Canada/France/UK/Japan.

Norton

Individuals and employers would cover most. Then the "freeloaders" on medicare and the like could continue without a non sustainable escalating cost to taxpayers.

Think it is 1 trillion based Sen. Kennedy "plan". Any plan for public health care will be the outcome of the what Congress pens in the next few months. Until that comes out all cost estimates and debate are simply speculation.

With 72% of the public favoring "public health care" as per the New York times poll above, appears it will happen. Simply a matter waiting to see the details.

For the moment, opponents of public health care will just have to use that oft used label of "socialism" to garner support to retain what by any measure is a failed US health care system.

__________________
There is such a thing as a nation being so right that it does not need to convince others by force that it is right.

Woodrow Wilson

Milkman

Medicare is the ticking time bomb.

Medicare is scheduled to be insolved in about 6 years and 10 months - less than 7 years from now, in the year 2016.

Even with curbing the cost increases (if this can even be done) the 77 million people born from 1946 to 1964 are hitting rolls. It's an "Age Wave."

S Landreth

Why not competition?

Obama:
Why would it drive private insurance out of business? If private insurers say that the marketplace provides the best quality health care; if they tell us that they’re offering a good deal, then why is it that the government, which they say can’t run anything, suddenly is going to drive them out of business? That’s not logical.

Link: Campaign Silo » Obama: If Private Insurers Are Such Crack Businesses, How Can “Incompetent” Government Put Them Out of Business?

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Jet Gorgon

^ Because the government will take over and tell biz what to do?
Perhaps the govt should just take care of the folks who do not have healthcare (and many will not join up), including the 10mil or so illegal immigrants.

sabang

I don't know exactly what shape or form the Healthcare system will take in the USA, it appears several details are still being worked out. Certainly, if large amounts of US people are left uninsured then you are not dealing with a national health care system at all- but I doubt this will be the case.

Currently, if you have either a privately or employer sponsored healthcare scheme in the US that is comprehensive you are one of the lucky ones. By comprehensive, I mean :-
- one that is not full of holes & exclusions (so that you cannot be kicked out of the plan if, for example you are diagnosed with diabetes).
- a plan that covers both yourself and your dependants
- a plan that does not lapse if you lose your job

Most Americans, it would appear, are not in this position- which is a remarkable 'Sword of Damocles' for the citizens of arguably the worlds most advanced nation to have hanging over their heads. Bear in mind the citizens of all other advanced nations are born with this entitlement. Not to mention some distinctly unadvanced nations like Cuba.

So anything has got to be an improvement on the current system! The other aspects that are fairly clear are that substantial cost efficiencies can be extracted from the current healthcare system (or lack thereof)- but no one is pretending State healthcare will be free; and that consumers will have the right to choose between a Government Health insurance plan and a private- although, predictably, private health insurers do not want competition from the government. Well bully for them. In other countries, Private health insurance covers the Premium options, government health insurance the basics. It will likely go the same way in the states.

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Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Boon Mee

This guy is losing it even faster than we thought! BO's MICHAEL DUKAKIS MOMENT on health care. “If ObamaCare isn’t good enough for Sasha, Malia, or Michelle, then it’s not good enough for America.”

rickysymo

I think that during the extreme states in man's life, being so young and being so old, he should be taken cared of. They are usually the helpless portion of society. Infants and kids cannot tend to themselves as yet. The seniors have gone through their lot in life and already needs to rest. Better take good care of them both!

S Landreth

^yes!,.there should be some type of safety net.

Other news,……………..

Public health care option should start from day one!

STFU Senator Kerry! Please!

Under the plan floated by Kerry, a public health care option would only be triggered by private insurance companies failing to meet certain criteria after ten years. Known as the "trigger" in legislative lingo, the idea is vociferously opposed by health care advocates who consider it the death of reform.



Link: Campaign Silo » John Kerry, you said what?

jakehussie

Children should also get free insurance. They do not have the income like the 65+ people and parents are also trying hard to get their own in case of medical emergencies.

S Landreth

My position (also),…………….

You're never going to get a decent healthcare bill by pandering to Republicans, and with 76% of Americans in favor of a public option, you're not going to please them and please the public at the same time. Most likely, pleasing Republicans will just get used as an excuse to do what Kay Hagan wants, which is give the insurance industry everything it wants.



We need a public plan that is:

• available nationwide
• on day one
• and accountable to Congress and the voters

So, let's stop trying to please the GOP, and start trying to serve the best interests of the public. If the GOP isn't on board with something that's so broadly popular, let's just admit we can do this with Democrats, and get it done.



F’em, we’ll go it alone

Jet Gorgon

Let's see the cost again?