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sabang

^ Oh yeh, several. Really, Obama just needs to worry about the Blue Dogs now. The GOP'ers can answer to their voters, whichever way they swing.

Thats Politics Baby.

Jet Gorgon

I think it's the Dems who need to answer to their voters, hence, the delay.

raycarey

lots of fear mongering and lies on this thread, but below are the facts.

three of the absurd claims most common on this thread:


FACT CHECK: Distortions rife in health care debate - Yahoo! News

Storekeeper

I'm a Republican (I think) and I support Obama on health care. Why ? Because everywhere else in the world the government handles health care just like they do education, the police and things like parks & recreation. This is a major burden on companies that put Americans to work. Our government would be helping companies by helping the people.

Health care should not be a business. It's a right of every civil society it seems except in the US.

I hate his arrogant, know it all attitude ... he's a troll fuckwit and needs do some serious work on his social skills ... but raycarey is right about the Republicans on this particular issue.

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Storekeeper

And about that Medicaid prescription drug act passed under GWB ... it totally prevents the government from negotiating lower prices and makes damn sure the elderly pay above the market rates for their prescription drugs.

The Democrats sold out on this one for votes ... totally sold out ... Rangel knew what it really was ... Pelosi knew what it really was ... more subsidy to the wealthy few ... courtesy of both parties.

Sorry Boon Mee ... but one reason I voted for Obama was to get people your age out of office.

Boon Mee

In the form of some watered-down anemic thing that may pass towards end of the year. Socialism is still a foreign & evil concept for the majority of Americans...

Boon Mee

So America wants this kind of shit? It's coming if BO and his cronies have their way. sk don't care tho as he lives in Thailand...

Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling injections

Tens of thousands with chronic back pain will be forced to live in agony after a decision to slash the number of painkilling injections issued on the NHS, doctors have warned.


Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling injections - Telegraph

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Boon Mee

Heh...Ed Morrissey : Ten leading indicators of American health-care superiority

1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.

2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.

3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.

4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.

5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.

6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom.

7. People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.

8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians.

9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain.

10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) : 10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care

Boon Mee

Time to revisit the best President America has had in living memory...

Humbert

^ I'm sure he was well paid for mouthing someone elses words on the subject

Boon Mee

Milton Friedman's Question, the Obamunists' Answer

Milkman

Boon mee, thanks for the clip on Ronald Reagan. Because of the referance to Truman I assume it's from the 1950s.

Humbert

In the mid 1950s with his acting career on the wane, he turned to becoming a paid spokesperson for large American corporations and other special interests.

jim1176

Why don't you stop yanking our cranks.

You are not talking about "Americans" you are talking about "Americans who have Health Care Insurance paid for by someone else"

Lets take one example:

6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom.

you mean:

6. Americans who have Health Care Insurance paid for by someone else spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom.

The reason they spend less time waiting is because the people without insurance are excluded ya dumb twat

sabang

WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--Democrats will not hesitate to forgo bipartisanship to pass a health overhaul bill if negotiations fail in the next month, U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said Monday.
Schumer, on a conference call with reporters, indicated that Democratic leaders are actively exploring options to pass the health bill that would not require Republican votes. He pointed specifically to budget reconciliation, a parliamentary tactic that would allow passage of a bill with a simple majority, rather than the 60 votes generally required in the Senate.
Reconciliation is "clearly one of the contingencies on the table," Schumer said. "We want to get a bipartisan agreement, but if we don't, it's not going to stop us from moving forward with health care."

Article - WSJ.com

So the naysayers may as well get used to it.

Every major social initiative that I can think of has always had a vocal, if minority opposition. Social welfare, Womens rights, Universal suffrage, Health care- including, in the US, Medicare & Medicaid, you name it. The conservative resistance is typically marshalled and trumpeted by vested interests that benefit fronm the status quo- in this case, the private Health Insurance lobby. But the most important vested interest- the AMA, which represents the Doctors, has already put it's weight behind health care reform. Another important vested interest, big Pharma, has accepted it also. Most importantly of all, most people want it. Well, perhaps even more important than that (outside of Politics)- the bluddy nation needs it.

Health care costs reduce the competitiveness of American industry- and they continue to spiral, seemingly out of control. Meanwhile, too many Americans are not covered by health insurance- and a shocking amount are underinsured with shoddy policies that screw you over if you have the temerity to get, say, diabetes. That is why a hideous 76% of all US bankruptcies are contributed to by health care costs- I sure wouldn't want to have that sceptre hangong over my families heads.

Frankly, I think a lot of the opposition comes from people who don't like having a President with a funny name, who doesn't look like the ones on dollar bills. Unfortunately for them, Obama will be the President who pushed through the most important Social legislation since Medicare. It's pretty much a fait accompli, imo.

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Jet Gorgon

Shooting yerself in the foot, there, Jimbo. If everyone is on govt care (like those folks on Medicare/Caid, etc, without private insurance) then you'll all be waiting a long time, like we do in Canada or the UK.

OK, the people are waking up and they ain't taking this Obama crap:
Breaking News | Latest News | Current News - FOXNews.com

sabang

Maybe Obama should commission an overseas survey, one question-
"Would you swap the Healthcare system you have for the US Healthcare system".

Just ask a few people from some backward nations like, say, Oz, NZ, HK, Singapore, Germany, France, UK, Canada, Ireland, Sweden, Japan, Korea, Italy, Germany, Denmark, Spain and (why not) Cuba.

I wonder what the answer would be?

Humbert

I agree with your sentiments, Sabang, however I think you may be too optimistic.

If you listen to reasonable voices, unlike some of the commentary in this forum, you have to conclude that the goal of reforming healthcare is bi-partisan. The real, core opposition to the proposals out there is that they will add dangerously to the national debt. Everyone needs to be concerned with that. If the cost of reforming healthcare is higher taxes, it will fail. As an American, I would like to see the healthcare system reformed but timing is horrible. Businesses and individuals may just have to continue to suffer under mounting costs until this nation finds its economic legs again.

Jet Gorgon

Lemmeesee, Singapore: I had national health and paid at the clinic once so I didn't have to wait for a sick leave piece of paper; Japan: paid for my own annual checkups because of the wait time and also paid $5,000 plus airfare for surgery in Canada after the Japs decided I should have parts cut out - the Jap system repaid me about $100; HK: also paid for my own checkups, but got ER free once and the nice doctor told me to schedule a follow-up, which I did and was scheduled for sometime the next year; the UK: 555555555, this I won't forget, three years wait for a bladdy gyno checkup, so paid my own; Canada: well, as I've said before, I got a GP only because he's the fam doc, and hey, my Sis died so there was room for one more. I'm booked for a mammogram (only have to wait til Feb 2010 -- geez, glad I don't have any lumps).
My firm always had mandatory annual physicals, but can't remember if it offered private. Whatever, I never had any. I can get private care (besides the $54/month I pay for FREE healthcare) here in Canada thru my Alumni Assn -- only $100 a month, which includes private room, acute care, some dental. Hek, what a deal.

Please tell us how the other countries fare.

Jet Gorgon

House Democrats are scrambling to come up with tax increases or other means of paying for their $1.2 trillion medical insurance plan. Yet the legislation they're trying to cram through Congress is even costlier than they'd have you believe.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that the House Democrats' legislation would spend $1.2 trillion over the next 10 years. Yet that cost estimate is based on a tried-and-true budget gimmick that members of Congress use to hide how much of your money they want to spend.
In reality, the Democrats' health care bill is at least 50% more expensive than the $1.2 trillion estimate suggests.
President Obama and his fellow partisans want the federal government to guarantee medical insurance coverage to all Americans. According to estimates by the left-leaning Urban Institute, providing health insurance to all of the uninsured would cost just under $2 trillion over the next 10 years.
House Dems Hide Cost Of Health Plan | Michael F. Cannon | Cato Institute: Commentary


Yummy!