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blackgang

I sure the fuck hope they do not get a pass on that healthcare,
Just what the country needs.
Another HMO only this one completely unafordable and ran by a darkie in the WH.

sabang

Well the Liberals are getting pissed off, but thats probably comforting to the fiscally conservative-

But the concessions Waxman made to the fiscally conservative Blue Dog Democrats infuriated House liberals. They denounced the proposed new structure of the government-run insurance option, which was originally designed to be based on Medicare rates. The new structure says rates would be negotiated with providers as occurs now with private companies, which could result in more expensive care.
"This agreement is not a step forward toward a good health care bill, but a large step backwards," 57 Progressive Caucus members said in a letter to House leaders Thursday. "Any bill that does not provide, at a minimum, for a public option with reimbursement rates based on Medicare rates — not negotiated rates — is unacceptable."
Liberals threatened to vote against the bill if it comes to the floor without a stronger public plan. Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., an Energy and Commerce member, said they probably had enough votes to block the Blue Dog deal in committee.
Some details of the deal remained murky. As part of the agreement the Blue Dogs are insisting they won't vote for a bill that costs more than $1 trillion over 10 years, but that would require Democrats to make more cuts or raise more money. It wasn't clear how much, or how it would be accomplished.

Also-
Highlighting the frenetic activity the overhaul has spurred in Washington, health interests have reported spending $262 million lobbying in the first six months of 2009, more than any other portion of the economy, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics.

The Associated Press: Health bill inches forward in House

I certainly think the US needs a decent national healthcare system, and it was probably Obamas biggest campaign promise. Otoh can understand concerns over the cost, given the financial mess right now.

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Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Boon Mee

Betsy McCaughey, one of the very few who have read the entire ObamaCare bill, details a few of the Nazi-like horrors BO wants to inflict on Americans:

AntRobertson

"Nazi-like horrors"

That's more offensive than you obviously realise - and not because of the association with Obama (that's just sad and pathetic really).

There's an entire generation of men who fought the Nazis and saw firsthand the horrors who would probably feel sorrow and anger that such flippant and trite comparisons are being made purely to score cheap points in a childish political game. I wonder what a surivour of Auschwitz would have to say about a health-care plan being compared to Nazi atrocities.

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The Revolution will be televised... Eleven o'clock... Channel 10.

Boon Mee

Well, me old boy fought the Japs. Was held captive by them little yellow buggers for 48 months after going thru the Bataan Death March. Same as those Nazis. But, back on topic - check out page 425: "Counseling sessions" mandated for elderly to pressure them to DIE. And you CANNOT keep your present health plan. Obama lies about that. Are you surprised?

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AntRobertson

Really?? Huh, I would've thought you'd have known better then.

Both my Grandfathers fought in WW2. They'd be disgusted in the sort of garbage that's so readily bandied about these days. At all these internet-tough-guys that talk a good fight.Bollocks. I'll put any money you like that you've just - knowingly or otherwise - misrepresented those counselling sessions.

Do you trust you cut 'n pastes enough to put your money where your mouth is Booners?

Storekeeper

“If you want to know how the proposed overhaul of the US healthcare system may play out nationally, talk to top executives at the biggest medical and life sciences companies in Massachusetts. As the heads of leading hospitals, insurers, and biotechnology companies, they have dealt with the complexities of near-universal healthcare since 2006, when Massachusetts became the first state to mandate insurance coverage. That gives them a unique perspective on the national effort to overhaul healthcare. As the debate in Washington heats up, local executives warn that two goals of the Obama administration — expanding insurance coverage and controlling spending — may prove incompatible. And as Massachusetts strains to deal with the increasing costs of its successful healthcare program, they raise questions about who will pay for the projected $1 trillion cost on the federal level."
Mass. executives wary of healthcare overhaul’s cost - The Boston Globe

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Boon Mee

Too much evidence out there in the public domain to ignore. Why do you suppose he's trying to rush this piece of crap thru Congress? BO and his supporters argue that when healthcare has been absorbed by Big Government, costs can be kept down by preventing innovation. Basically, they are blowing smoke up yer ass:

AntRobertson

So that's a "no" then, thought as much.

I'd feel bad taking money from you anyways, you might need it if the day ever comes that you're ill and the present US healthcare system bankrupts you.

Still for those that are interested in the actual truth rather than just unthinkingly cut 'n pasting and spreading verbatim lies, here's pg425 of the Health Care Bill:Health Care Bill Page 425 - The Truth Nothing in there at all that mandates advocating/euthanasia suicide for the elderly. A load of hysteria over nothing, really shows how desperate the 'right' have become these days all this desperate clutching at straws.

Boon Mee

^
Not to worry...it still won't pass. America ain't as ready for socialized medicine as you may wish for. I won't be taking advantage of any of that Medicare etc anyhow as I'll be living out the 'golden years' in Thailand...

raycarey

...and bought of course it's a 'no'.

this is simply more 'echo chamber' nonsense generated by conservative propagandists.

this sort of crap starts on the rabid blogs, is eventually picked up by the likes of worldnetdaily or newsmax, then it becomes a headline on drudge, which is followed by commentary on FIX news....all in the hopes of it finally making it into the reputable media.....whether it be a question at a press conference or even being totally debunked...as long as the phony story is being talked about, it's a success for the echo chamber.

AntRobertson

Righto, fair enough.

Still if you're going to be anti-something it might help your case to actually be informed on what it is you're opposing.

That being said I'm only too happy to help if there are any other bits of misconceptions, lies, or disinformation that I can clear-up for you? PM me if you like, being that you're an American citizen and this affects you directly... Well, suffice to say that it might be a bit embarrassing having to rely on me for accurate information.

We'll just keep it between the two of us eh.

Norton

The US has over the years experienced health care costs escalating beyond sustainability. Currently the US spends 17% of it's GDP on health care. $2.4 trillion on health care which is inferior to other developed countries who have government programs.

France, considered to be the best health care system in the world is the most expensive in Europe but somehow manages to spend only 10% of it's GDP, a far cry from the 17% in the US.

For as far back as I can remember, all Presidents have ran on a platform which contained some sort of health care reform. Some more serious than others to be sure. From Truman to Obama none have been able to deliver anything meaningful.

Every time serious health care reform legislation is attempted it is blocked by those who are reaping the big bucks. The Insurers, Medical professionals, Hospitals and Pharmaceuticals barrage the public with doom and gloom predictions. Our spineless Congress driven by the fears of their constituents as planted by the special interests, fold like a house of cards.

Wake up America. Our system is inferior to France's as well as several other countries and costs more.

Somebody making a shit load of money here and it ain't the American taxpayer.

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There is such a thing as a nation being so right that it does not need to convince others by force that it is right.

Woodrow Wilson

Norton

Wonder when then? Maybe by 2017 when the costs will be 20% of GDP.

AntRobertson

In all seriousness this is the part that, no matter how hard I try, I simply can't understand - how can so many people be so gullible??

Right back to the days of Reagan fronting the 'socialised medicine = Communisim' campaigns Americans have fallen for it hook, line and sinker. Such is the ingrained fear that many are apparently prepared to accept an objectively inferior system that is failing than try and fix things. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

And the final irony of it all is that it's based on a concerted propaganda campaign - the same tool that the feared 'Commies' would utilise.

sabang

The most agressive Lobbyists are the private medical insurance industry. I'm not sure what will come out, but last thing I read they appear to be getting their way, i.e. there will not be a low cost government alternative- it will just be competing private plans. This is contrary to the public interest.

At least it will be an improvement on the current situation, but it wouldn't surprise me if the whole issue is revisited in a few years, when it is apparent that health insurers greed is still causing US citizens to pay more for health insurance than is necessary, or desirable. But the AMA and HMO industry is basically on board. I doubt health care reform can be stopped politically.

Storekeeper

Yeah, it's the HMOs and investors like Warren Buffet. The US spends more than anybody on its health care system and has a lower life expectancy than either Canada or France. Our system favors admininstrators over nurses. That's why more people these days want a Masters in Health Care Administration than to become nurses or doctors. Our health care system costs Americans jobs. Toyota would rather be based in Canada than have a free factory in Alabama because of US health care costs.

Wake the fuck up Boon Mee ...

Boon Mee

If 'they' can figure out how to keep the illegals from collecting on hard-working American taxpayers contributions then maybe it'll have a chance...

Storekeeper

"They" need to grant amnesty to the illegals and start encouraging Mexican immigration. The US needs cheaper labour. The US needs those Mexicans to become taxpaying citizens as soon as possible. The US can't compete with countries like Thailand who only pay their workers 150 baht a day. Or Chinese companies that get away with 16 hour days and then let the workers go before they pay them.

Boon Mee

Again, you won't be taking any money from me there Ant. The numbers don't lie. It's all because of numbers and the facts. When the CBO, the non-partisan budget office, came in with the real numbers, this piece of crap plan died...

But, if it does come back in some form it'll be a watered-down plan towards end of the year. Besides, what do you care? You've got your socialized nanny-state benefits, eh?