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raycarey · 17-01-2007, 05:04 PM

'scooter' libby was dick cheney's chief of staff.
valerie plame was an undercover CIA agent whose cover was blown in journalist robert novak's column. Plame is married to joseph wilson.

Quote:

U.S. v. Libby boils down to two drastically different versions of the same events in the spring and summer of 2003. The government alleges that Libby was involved in a concerted White House effort to discredit Plame's husband, former U.S. ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, who had publicly accused the Bush administration of twisting information he provided on Iraq's nuclear weapons program. Wilson led a CIA-sponsored mission to Niger a year earlier and found no grounds for claims that Iraq was trying to obtain uranium there.
Eight days after Wilson went public with his claims, Plame's identity as a CIA officer appeared in Novak's column.

WP: Many in the hot seat at Libby trial - washingtonpost.com Highlights - MSNBC.com

Quote:

"When Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff goes on trial Tuesday on charges of lying about the disclosure of a CIA officer's identity, members of Washington's government and media elite will be answering some embarrassing questions as well."I. Lewis 'Scooter' Libby's case will put on display the secret strategizing of an administration that cherry-picked information to justify war in Iraq and reporters who traded freely in gossip and protected their own interests as they worked on one of the big Washington stories of 2003. . . .
"Randall D. Eliason, a former chief of public corruption cases in the U.S. Attorney's Office, said the evidence appears to make it difficult for Libby to claim forgetfulness. 'You have the vice president cutting out a section of the newspaper, circling it and saying, 'Let's find out about this.' You don't rise to the level of being the vice president's chief of staff by letting that kind of thing slip your mind.'"

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

Quote:

"His defense is a novel one: that he was so preoccupied with life-or-death affairs of state that it affected his ability to accurately recall events for federal investigators."Prosecutors have a simpler explanation: He lied. . . .
"At a time when most high-profile Washington criminal defendants cop pleas to avoid the glare of the courtroom, the case should provide a rare display of political theater, a throwback to the days of Watergate and the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages scandal, which played out in the same federal courthouse where Libby's fate will be decided.
"The politically charged case against Libby may be the closest thing that critics of the Bush administration ever get to a public trial dealing with the justifications for the Iraq war."

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yesterday, potential jurors were asked...

Quote:

"'Do any of you have any feelings or opinions about Vice President Cheney, whether positive or negative, that might affect your ability to be fair in this case or that might affect your ability to fairly judge Vice President Cheney's believability?'

"The answers will be crucial for Libby, who is hoping that a sympathetic jury can be selected from a city where Democrats outnumber Republicans more than 9-to-1."

Jury selection begins in CIA leak trial - Yahoo! News

during a time of 'war', the white house is alleged to have outed an undercover CIA operative. and for those on this board who will undoubtedly repeat the fauxnews talking points that she wasn't undercover....don't waste your time (or more importantly, mine), because you're wrong.

Butterfly · 17-01-2007, 05:30 PM

well it's no secret that Cheney was the one who had the idea of the leak. The actual leak was done by Libby, but wouldn't Cheney be as guilty ?

raycarey · 17-01-2007, 05:42 PM

it's too bad cheney wasn't named as an unindicted co-conspirator.

Boon Mee · 17-01-2007, 06:26 PM

Big deal.
Y'all wanna throw someone in the slammer for malfeasence and just generally being a crook? How about Sandy Burgler and the purloined National Archive stuff he ripped off to protect Clinton from further embarrasment re. letting bin laden get away, eh?...

Milkman · 17-01-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Big deal.
Y'all wanna throw someone in the slammer for malfeasence and just generally being a crook? How about Sandy Burgler and the purloined National Archive stuff he ripped off to protect Clinton from further embarrasment re. letting bin laden get away, eh?...

Are you saying 'two wrong make a right'

or that both Libby and Sandy 'Burglar' should be thrown in the slammer?

raycarey · 17-01-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Big deal.

1. GWB says the US is at war
2. plame was an undercover CIA officer
3. the vice president's chief of staff leaked her name because her husband was questioning what proved to be false information.

and your response...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Big deal.

why do you hate america?

Butterfly · 17-01-2007, 07:00 PM

Clinton was not a coward traitor like Cheney and Libbie, so there is no point in comparing them

raycarey · 17-01-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

It was Mr. Libby who helped assemble a dossier on Saddam Hussein and unconventional weapons and ties to Al Qaeda for Secretary of State Colin L. Powell’s speech to the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003, fighting to keep in the speech evidence that Mr. Powell found questionable. It was Mr. Libby, at Mr. Cheney’s direction, who repeatedly spoke to reporters to rebut Joseph C. Wilson IV after Mr. Wilson, a former ambassador, publicly accused the White House of distorting intelligence.

As Trial Begins, Cheney’s Ex-Aide Is Still a Puzzle - New York Times

man with no head · 18-01-2007, 01:01 AM

If you can't defend the guy in power now then bring up something unrelated and irrelevent about someone in power before.

Boon Mee · 18-01-2007, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raycarey

plame was an undercover CIA officer

She was as about 'undercover' as Monica Lewinsky...
A desk jockey was all she was - this is a trumped-up charge due to a lot of reasons. Mostly because of the extreme BDS that pervades Washington...

attaboy · 20-01-2007, 02:32 PM

Armitage admits to CIA disclosure

A US former Deputy Secretary of State, Richard Armitage, has admitted that he first disclosed that Valerie Plame was an undercover CIA agent.

Mr Armitage told the New York Times he had wanted to disclose his role earlier, but had been asked not to by the prosecutor investigating the leak, Patrick Fitzgerald.

No officials have been charged with leaking Ms Plame's identity, although a former adviser to the vice-president Dick Cheney, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, is awaiting trial for allegedly obstructing justice.

No officials have been charged because there was no crime. The two great (as in size and not quality) trolls on this board, ray and BF, know that Libby was not the leak. Nor do they care that Fitzgerald knew it wasn't Libby and he continued to use the pretense of investigation to dig into the lives of administration officials. Fitzgerlad rates right up there with Nifong, the prosecutor of the kids on the Duke lacrosse team.

I ask that this topic be moved to the troll forum. It's a clear troll. That's where it belongs. Ray and BF should be alloted a sub-forum befitting the depths to which their posts plunge. Call it the Partisan Sub-Forum.

man with no head · 20-01-2007, 02:48 PM

Libby isn't being charged with the leak. He's being charged with several felonies related to hindering the investigation. Just because someone else isn't charged in the leak doesn't get Libby off the hook.

attaboy · 20-01-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attaboy

"Scooter" Libby, is awaiting trial for allegedly obstructing justice.

^I'm not saying it does. He must face the charges. It makes me wonder if Armitage had been allowed to come forth as he wished if there would have been any charges against anyone? Ray and BF posted Libby's on trial for being the leak. As I say it's all partisan trolling with them. Perhaps their forum could be nicknamed the SubPar Forum.

man with no head · 20-01-2007, 03:19 PM

What Libby knew or didn't know or what Armitage did or didn't do isn't relevant to Libby attempting to thwart the investigation as charged.

Obstruction of Justice: the crime of interfering with an investigation by a person who is not a suspect of the crime...whether through destroying evidence, lying, a false alibi to support the suspect, or to hide their own activities from the investigation.

Perhaps if Libby had told the truth or been cooperative then none of the charges would be pending.

I can't imagine how Armitage's ability or inability to come forward would have given Libby the ability to suddenly cooperate or tell the truth.

raycarey · 20-01-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attaboy

I ask that this topic be moved to the troll forum. It's a clear troll. That's where it belongs.

explain to me how the the vice president's chief of staff's obstruction of justice trial is not worthy of the US issues subforum on TD?

just because it's not on fauxnews doesn't mean it isn't news...or worth discussing.

if you want to do your part, you could donate to his legal defense trust...

Libby Legal Defense Trust

raycarey · 20-01-2007, 03:26 PM

libby and cheney have a history of declassifying intelligence....

Quote:

Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff testified that he was authorized by President Bush, through Mr. Cheney, in July 2003 to disclose key parts of what until then was a classified prewar intelligence estimate on Iraq, according to a new court filing.

Quote:

The president has the authority to declassify information, and Mr. Libby indicated in his testimony that he believed Mr. Bush's instructions — which prosecutors said Mr. Libby regarded as "unique in his recollection" — gave him legal cover to talk with a reporter about the intelligence.

Cheney's Aide Says President Approved Leak - New York Times

Quote:

In an interview Wednesday with Fox News, Cheney said the case was "nothing I can talk about." But he said he had the authority to declassify material under an executive order that "focuses first and foremost on the president, but also includes the vice president."

CNN.com - Cheney says he has power to declassify information - Feb 16, 2006

it's all speculation at this point, and the jury will have to decide whether or not libby obstructed a federal prosecutor. the 'why' (which seems obvious) will probably not be resolved.

man with no head · 20-01-2007, 03:28 PM

I personally don't think it's a very important issue (despite my general dislike for Bush-Cheney at this point).

raycarey · 20-01-2007, 03:54 PM

now it isn't.

but four years ago when the administration was cherry picking intelligence and hammering down anyone who dared express doubt, this was important.

if blix had been listened to about WMD and wilson about the enriched uranium from niger, then the invasion possibly could have been prevented.....and 100,000 iraqis wouldn't be dead, 3000 american kids wouldn't be dead, 20,000 wouldn't be wounded, and the US treasury wouldn't be short $500,000,000,000

but these boys took care of that.....blix was demonized and wilson's character assailed.

because the truth wasn't able to get out, this is where the US finds itself.

20-01-2007, 02:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
attaboy Elite Member Last Online: Today 02:15 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,422	Armitage admits to CIA disclosure A US former Deputy Secretary of State, Richard Armitage, has admitted that he first disclosed that Valerie Plame was an undercover CIA agent. Mr Armitage told the New York Times he had wanted to disclose his role earlier, but had been asked not to by the prosecutor investigating the leak, Patrick Fitzgerald. No officials have been charged with leaking Ms Plame's identity, although a former adviser to the vice-president Dick Cheney, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, is awaiting trial for allegedly obstructing justice. No officials have been charged because there was no crime. The two great (as in size and not quality) trolls on this board, ray and BF, know that Libby was not the leak. Nor do they care that Fitzgerald knew it wasn't Libby and he continued to use the pretense of investigation to dig into the lives of administration officials. Fitzgerlad rates right up there with Nifong, the prosecutor of the kids on the Duke lacrosse team. I ask that this topic be moved to the troll forum. It's a clear troll. That's where it belongs. Ray and BF should be alloted a sub-forum befitting the depths to which their posts plunge. Call it the Partisan Sub-Forum. __________________ As a kid I always thought my nickname was "attaboy" until I realized they were rooting for the dog: "Attaboy, get 'em! Get 'em!". Last edited by attaboy : 20-01-2007 at 02:34 PM.

17-01-2007, 05:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
Butterfly Suspended Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,842	well it's no secret that Cheney was the one who had the idea of the leak. The actual leak was done by Libby, but wouldn't Cheney be as guilty ?

17-01-2007, 05:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
raycarey texpat's sexual obsession Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: deleting posts in issues Posts: 5,549	it's too bad cheney wasn't named as an unindicted co-conspirator.

17-01-2007, 06:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
Boon Mee Senior Member Last Online: Yesterday 06:47 PM Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,820	Big deal. Y'all wanna throw someone in the slammer for malfeasence and just generally being a crook? How about Sandy Burgler and the purloined National Archive stuff he ripped off to protect Clinton from further embarrasment re. letting bin laden get away, eh?...

17-01-2007, 07:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Butterfly Suspended Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,842	Clinton was not a coward traitor like Cheney and Libbie, so there is no point in comparing them

18-01-2007, 01:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
man with no head Somewhere Travelling Last Online: 11-08-2007 07:39 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,424	If you can't defend the guy in power now then bring up something unrelated and irrelevent about someone in power before.

20-01-2007, 02:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
man with no head Somewhere Travelling Last Online: 11-08-2007 07:39 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,424	Libby isn't being charged with the leak. He's being charged with several felonies related to hindering the investigation. Just because someone else isn't charged in the leak doesn't get Libby off the hook.

20-01-2007, 03:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
man with no head Somewhere Travelling Last Online: 11-08-2007 07:39 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,424	What Libby knew or didn't know or what Armitage did or didn't do isn't relevant to Libby attempting to thwart the investigation as charged. Obstruction of Justice: the crime of interfering with an investigation by a person who is not a suspect of the crime...whether through destroying evidence, lying, a false alibi to support the suspect, or to hide their own activities from the investigation. Perhaps if Libby had told the truth or been cooperative then none of the charges would be pending. I can't imagine how Armitage's ability or inability to come forward would have given Libby the ability to suddenly cooperate or tell the truth.

20-01-2007, 03:28 PM	#17 (permalink)
man with no head Somewhere Travelling Last Online: 11-08-2007 07:39 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,424	I personally don't think it's a very important issue (despite my general dislike for Bush-Cheney at this point).

20-01-2007, 03:54 PM	#18 (permalink)
raycarey texpat's sexual obsession Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: deleting posts in issues Posts: 5,549	now it isn't. but four years ago when the administration was cherry picking intelligence and hammering down anyone who dared express doubt, this was important. if blix had been listened to about WMD and wilson about the enriched uranium from niger, then the invasion possibly could have been prevented.....and 100,000 iraqis wouldn't be dead, 3000 american kids wouldn't be dead, 20,000 wouldn't be wounded, and the US treasury wouldn't be short $500,000,000,000 but these boys took care of that.....blix was demonized and wilson's character assailed. because the truth wasn't able to get out, this is where the US finds itself.

20-01-2007, 04:03 PM	#19 (permalink)
man with no head Somewhere Travelling Last Online: 11-08-2007 07:39 PM Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 5,424