IP theft - Thailand does it again...

[watterinja]

Thailand shoots itself in the feet, again...

Thailand - A warning to others - Refrigeration-Engineer.com forums

I wonder how many developers will continue to use the place?

[AntRobertson]

Plenty, particularly now that Thailand has acceded to the WIPO / PCT.

[watterinja]

^

[AntRobertson]

Well I know it's not quite as compelling and persuasive a link to a wholly unsubstantiated and uncorroborated story on another internet forum, but I still don't get what's so funny.

[watterinja]

I think what is incredibly funny is that you'd believe that Thailand would willingly honour WIPO / PCT, or whatever they've signed.

The facts are, they don't care less...

[AntRobertson]

I think what is incredibly funny is that you'd believe that Thailand would willingly honour WIPO / PCT, or whatever they've signed.

The facts are, they don't care less...

That's simply not true; no one is compelled to join the PCT and the process of submission is rigorous and arduous. Why submit to that if you 'don't care less'.

That they are signatories to the WIPO and now members of the PCT is fact. Again, perhaps not as compelling as some apocryphal story on an internet forum but there you go.

[kingwilly]

That they are signatories to the WIPO and now members of the PCT is fact. Again, perhaps not as compelling as some apocryphal story on an internet forum but there you go.

I believe it, and I dont even know what apocryphal means...

[watterinja]

[at]AntRobertson:
Perhaps you'd like to advise the poor sod whose IP has been stolen, on that thread, as to exactly how, as a small player, he could make use of the WIPO/PCT agreement to retrieve his IP, or prevent its blatant theft by the Thai company involved?

It all sounds incredibly academic to me...

[kingwilly]

Thailand - A warning to others
I have been asked to bring this issue to the attention of the members of RE, by a fellow member, whose identity should remain anonymous, for reasons of personal safety. This person is not a Thai national. He is utterly devastated by the events that follow.

Background:
1. A full set of component details suitable for building a prototype heat-pump were supplied to a 'reputable' airconditioning manufacturer, in Bangkok, Thailand.
2. The design of the system was 100% the property of the designer - in other words the intellectual property resided completely with the designer.
3. The 'reputable' company was commissioned to quote on a suitable evaporator, box & fan to meet specification & to assemble the machine to designer's requirements.
4. The designer paid for the first prototype in full before the build commenced.
5. The first prototype was built, after many difficulties, & performance-tested at the builders' premises.
6. The designer then commissioned a second prototype to be built using the same components, but in a smaller box.
7. The second machine was also paid for, cash up-front.
8. The second machine was eventually built - difficulties included.


RHVAC 2009:
At a recent Trade Show (RHVAC 2009, Bangkok), the designer was requested to show his second heat-pump on the assembler's trade booth. This was understood to be in good faith & as a way to encourage new business.

On the first day of the trade show, the assembler's new product brochure arrived. On page 31, they listed a range of new heat-pumps they now manufactured. The picture of the unit was that of the designer's first prototype machine. No request for the picture had been asked for, nor obtained. This company had never previously 'officially' been in the heat-pump business, but did assemble for small designer/builders, upon request.

Upon observing this, the designer immediately instructed the assembler to remove his heat-pump from the booth, package it & return it to his company premises. This was done. This had to be done due to the clear conflict-of-interest situation that had arisen.

A metter of ethics?
When questioned as to why the assembler had acted in this manner, the answer was:
1. They could no remove the offending picture as the brochures had already been printed;
2. They considered it normal practice in the industry for companies to steal the IP from other companies;
3. They were utterly unrepentant in the matter.

Legal protection
Under Thai law, the designer will have very little real recourse to justice. At best, a very expensive, slow, legal battle would ensue, which would invariably exceed its statute-of-limitations of 10 years, before expiring.

Warning to foreigner developers
Please be very careful when building products in Thailand, as your IP will not be protected. Quite the contrary, it will be open season on your know-how.


Please be very, very careful when trusting in Thailand.

Edited by Frank.......Please do not name and shame in public. If you have a gripe with the Company, take it up with them directly.

hmmmmm, gutless wonder, didnt even use his own username

[kingwilly]

This thread was set up without malice, & as a warning to foreign designers wishing to manufacture products in Thailand. My friend's experiences, aftersome investigation, turn out to be a rather common occurence.

sure you did...

[AntRobertson]

[at]AntRobertson:
Perhaps you'd like to advise the poor sod whose IP has been stolen, on that thread, as to exactly how, as a small player, he could make use of the WIPO/PCT agreement to retrieve his IP, or prevent its blatant theft by the Thai company involved?

It all sounds incredibly academic to me...

You mean the guy that is anonymously reporting the events, hearsay, on the behalf of another, apparently seperate, anonymous person or the actual person who is, apparently, the subject of the story?

Because my advice to the former would be don't get involved, and too the latter take better steps to secure your IP rights next time. It's no use crying over spilt milk if you failed to take advantage of the protections that are there.

[AntRobertson]

Please be very careful when building products in Thailand, as your IP will not be protected. Quite the contrary, it will be open season on your know-how.

Complete and utter bollocks.

[kingwilly]

sounds like Dribblin Farce....

[jim1176]

would you really expect anything different from a Thai, they are all sleazy crooks

[lom]

sounds like Dribblin Farce....

Nah, sounds more like Watterinja himself.

[AntRobertson]

^This thread is about Intellectual Property, Jim.

So don't worry you're quite safe.

[DrAndy]

would you really expect anything different from a Thai, they are all sleazy crooks

yes, all of them, every one

what I have never understood about you Jim, is why you frequent this forum

you obviously hate the Thais and Thailand and say anything to put them down

so, why are you here?

[jim1176]

what I have never understood about you Jim, is why you frequent this forum you obviously hate the Thais and Thailand and say anything to put them down so, why are you here?

There are many things you cannot understand Dr. because you are too stupid. Your post assumes is it only possible to like Thailand by denying certain realities, namely that Thais are sleazy operators and should be dealt with very carefully. Now if you had any brains and were capable of producing intellectual property as I have all my life, you would be well advised to tread carefully in exposing this information generally, especially to Asians and above all to Thais. Any fcukwit can figure this out. If you had any money maybe you could do some business deals with Thais and get some first hand experience in their ways instead of spending your time giving it to Ant up the ass every day.

I wonder about you also, Dr. Like why do you call yourself Dr? Did you live your life muttering "I shuda been a doctor"? Did you have a whining mother? When I first joined this forum Dr. you gave me a red on every post. Do you welcome all newbies this way. Ironically, wasn't it you who started a thread whining about unnecessary reds, "What can be done about abusive posters?" Maybe you should ignore my posts and, yes, get back to giving it to Ant up the ass.

Have a nice day

[tsicar]

what I have never understood about you Jim, is why you frequent this forum you obviously hate the Thais and Thailand and say anything to put them down so, why are you here?

There are many things you cannot understand Dr. because you are too stupid. Your post assumes is it only possible to like Thailand by denying certain realities, namely that Thais are sleazy operators and should be dealt with very carefully. Now if you had any brains and were capable of producing intellectual property as I have all my life, you would be well advised to tread carefully in exposing this information generally, especially to Asians and above all to Thais. Any fcukwit can figure this out. If you had any money maybe you could do some business deals with Thais and get some first hand experience in their ways instead of spending your time giving it to Ant up the ass every day.

I wonder about you also, Dr. Like why do you call yourself Dr? Did you live your life muttering "I shuda been a doctor"? Did you have a whining mother? When I first joined this forum Dr. you gave me a red on every post. Do you welcome all newbies this way. Ironically, wasn't it you who started a thread whining about unnecessary reds, "What can be done about abusive posters?" Maybe you should ignore my posts and, yes, get back to giving it to Ant up the ass.

Have a nice day

oh, stop stalking the poor, misunderstood "doctor"
you will have ant in tears again in a minute!
live and let live, i say.......

[Spin]

Please be very careful when building products in Thailand, as your IP will not be protected. Quite the contrary, it will be open season on your know-how.

Complete and utter bollocks.

What about Thailand compulsory licensing of patented drugs?

Were you ever able to read about it or was the rose tinting on your glasses too dark?

[Butterfly]

Nah, sounds more like Watterinja himself.

it does sound like a post written by Watterinja,

didn't he do a picture thread on his heat pump a few months ago ? I remember seeing pics of such a device, maybe part of another discussion.

I am not surprised to see the manufacturer copying such a design, if no lawyers were involved heavily in the beginning

if you want to build it cheap, it's going to cost you eventually, and that IP stealing thing is one of those costs.

[Butterfly]

What about Thailand compulsory licensing of patented drugs?

perfectly legal and in line with IP laws. It's a special provision in International Patents laws. Check the story first

[AntRobertson]

Please be very careful when building products in Thailand, as your IP will not be protected. Quite the contrary, it will be open season on your know-how.

Complete and utter bollocks.

What about Thailand compulsory licensing of patented drugs?

Were you ever able to read about it or was the rose tinting on your glasses too dark?

An entirely different matter, not even comparable to the issue at hand.

Perhaps you need to get some new glasses, those worn out and jaded one obscuring your view?

And why do these threads all go the same way anyways; here we've got a second-hand story being reported by a third-party from another internet forum. That's it. When and why did pointing out facts instead of relying on some apocryphal story become the standard for 'rose-tinted glasses/Thaiophile'. Frankly it seems that some people are in such a rush to believe stuff like this they'll swallow anything.

[kingwilly]

relying on some apocryphal story become the standard for 'rose-tinted glasses/Thaiophile'

damn, thems big words again.

is that like atrophy ?

[AntRobertson]

Kind of, but no not really.

It means a story or whatever of dubious authenticity. For example: DribblingFarce makes many, many apocryphal claims.