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  1. #1
    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Convicted Murderer of 22 men, women and children offers apology

    Calley finally apologises for My Lai massacre



    August 22, 2009 - 10:06AM
    William Calley, the former US army lieutenant convicted on 22 counts of murder in the infamous My Lai massacre in Vietnam, has publicly apologised for the first time.
    "There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai," Calley, 66, told members of the Kiwanis Club of Greater Columbus in Georgia on Wednesday. His voice started to break when he added: "I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry."
    In March 1968, US soldiers gunned down hundreds of civilians in the South Vietnamese hamlet of My Lai. The army at first denied, then downplayed the event, saying most of the dead were Vietcong. But in November 1969, journalist Seymour Hersh revealed what really happened and Calley was court-martialed and convicted of murder.
    Calley had long refused to grant interviews about what happened, but on Wednesday he spoke at a Columbus Kiwanis meeting. He made only a brief statement but agreed to take questions from the audience.
    He did not deny what had happened that day but did repeatedly make the point - which he has made before - that he was following orders.
    Calley explained he had been ordered to take out My Lai, adding that he had intelligence that the village was fortified and would be "hot" when he went in. He also said the area was submitted to an artillery barrage and helicopter fire before his troops went in. It turned out that it was not "hot" and there was no armed resistance. But he had been told, he said, that if he left anyone behind, his troops could be trapped and caught in a crossfire.
    Asked about US casualties, Calley said there were two injuries, but neither was the result of enemy fire, adding: "They didn't have time."
    When asked if obeying an unlawful order was not itself an unlawful act, he said: "I believe that is true. If you are asking why I did not stand up to them when I was given the orders, I will have to say that I was a second lieutenant getting orders from my commander and I followed them - foolishly, I guess." Calley then said this was not an excuse; it was just what happened.
    The officer Calley said gave those orders was Captain Ernest Medina, who was also tried for what happened at My Lai. Represented by the renowned defence lawyer F. Lee Bailey, Medina was acquitted of all charges in 1971.
    That same year, Calley did not fare as well.
    After four months of testimony in a Fort Benning courtroom and almost two weeks of jury deliberation, he was convicted of premeditated murder. After the verdict was read, but before sentencing, he was allowed to address the court.
    "I'm not going to stand here and plead for my life or my freedom," Calley said. "If I have committed a crime, the only crime I have committed is in judgment of my values. Apparently I valued my troops' lives more than I did those of the enemy ..."
    Calley was sentenced to life in jail, later reduced to 20 years, then 10. In the end he served three-and-a-half years, under house arrest.
    Many at the time considered Calley a scapegoat, forced to take the fall for those above him. That sentiment had been very strong when the late federal judge J. Robert Elliot released Calley from custody after a habeas corpus hearing. An appeals court reversed Elliot's ruling and Calley was returned to army custody, but the army soon paroled him.
    Calley then settled in Columbus, Georgia, married a young woman named Penny Vick and worked in her father's jewellery store here for years. He now lives in Atlanta with his 28-year-old son, Laws, who is doing doctoral work in electrical engineering at Georgia Tech.
    Calley has been free now for years but he remains stripped of some of his civil rights.
    "No, I still cannot vote," he said. "In fact, I'm not even supposed to go into the post office, I guess."
    MCT
    Calley finally apologises for My Lai massacre




    Three and a half years house-arrest for murdering 22 people . . . nice . . .

  2. #2
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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  3. #3
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    so many American soldiers have been guilty of war crimes,

    another reason why the US don't want to participate in the WCT,

    they would be guilty on all charges and it would expose the US Army for what it is, "I was following orders", got to love that line

  4. #4
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    Wars and combat is not always fun and not always civilized, especially in wars as has been fought since the end of the WW ll when it seems the end of uniformed combat and an entry into Guerrilla war has came into vogue, and it is not always the USA that is to fault as is proven down thru history as seems even the most civilized people can commit atrocities.

    Solidarity Online Australian atrocities at war
    Germany was vilified for the use of mustard gas during that war in trench warfare on the Western Front. Yet MacDougall reveals that in September 1918, Australian artillery fired mustard gas shells at Germany's Hindenberg Line.
    In the war of "race" against Japan in the Pacific, the Battle of the Bismarck Sea stands out. In March 1943, RAAF Beaufighters strafed (machine gunned) Japanese survivors in the water after one Japanese ship sank.
    Of course, you can already find this fact in Humphrey McQueen's Japan to the Rescue (1991) but at least MacDougall doesn't write it out of history.
    In November 1944, the Australian government, led by Labor's John Curtin, "had firmly decided that its forces' role 'should be on a scale to guarantee her an effective role in the peace settlement'." This is explained by their concern to make sure Australia got its share of the expected colonial carve-up at war's end.
    One result of this policy was "Curtin's insistence that Australian troops expel the last Japanese garrisons from the Australian territories in the South Pacific."
    This ran counter to American strategic planning, which aimed to bypass a number of Japanese island garrisons, even sizeable ones, in order to make a path towards Japan and ending the war by attacking the Japanese capital directly.
    MacDougall sums up how Australia's political decision-making impacted on military matters: "The operations of Australian forces in the Pacific in the last year of the war have been widely viewed as an unnecessary waste of lives."
    Australia attacked Japanese garrisons in New Guinea and the northern Solomons (Bougainville). "The 3rd Australian Division, arriving on Bougainville late in 1944, found a strange truce had been established between the Americans and the Japanese. However, General Savige ordered the enemy cleared from the centre of the island", writes MacDougall.
    In June 1945, at Beaufort on Borneo's north-west coast, upon defeating the Japanese and learning of the 2000 Australian and Britsh POWs dying on the Sandakan Death March, Australian troops let loose indigenous headhunters on some of the 6000 Japanese who surrendered. These Japanese POWs were forced in a death march of their own, the "Beaufort Episode".
    During the Vietnam War, at the village of Binh Ba, five kilometres from the main Australian base at Nui Dat, a battle raged in June 1969. Australian tanks were "devastating the town while infantry fought house to house and helicopters hosed the plantation with fire", tells MacDougall.
    Australian casualties were nine, while more than 100 dead Vietnamese were counted. "A number of them were women and children, a fact that deeply troubled many of the Australians and still does."
    MacDougall intended this book to continue the eulogising of the Anzac myth, "to remind Australians of aspects of their past that are in danger of being forgotten". But his honesty means that, if you can stomach it, he reveals the brutality of Australia's rulers, and the horrors they have unleashed in order to secure a place alongside the world's major powers
    .

  5. #5
    lob
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    obviously some non combatant , non soldiers here. alls fair in love and war. dont ask your troops to do what you cant then moan about it, orders are there to follow, its called discipline. no case to answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang
    it seems the end of uniformed combat and an entry into Guerrilla war has came into vogue,
    erm, vogue is probably not the term your looking, nor is guerrilla war, well that is unless you think of Americans invasions into other nations as a guerilla war.

  7. #7
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    There is all kinds of shit done in combat and those that have not been there will never know what it is like or that you are capable of doing.
    But all that is being done with threads like this is to denigrate other countrys and seems like no one seem to want to look at what their own country has done in a wartime situation. And that goes for any country that has had troops in combat.

    I had a friend that was with the group of our's that was with these Aussies who was killed, but you will not find his name on the wall in DC.

    3 News > World > Story > Veteran's claims raises questions about Australia's military history
    Mon, 13 Jul 2009 6:18p.m.
    Australia’s military history is being questioned, with a Vietnam veteran going public about atrocities committed by its troops.
    He claims bodies of Viet Cong soldiers were mutilated and blown up.
    Veteran Don Tate served and was badly wounded in Vietnam.
    But his biggest fight has been the 40 years since, and his struggle for an investigation into the battle of Thua Thich.
    An Australian platoon of 37 diggers defeated a much larger Viet Cong force.
    What Mr Tate says happened next, will not be found in any of the official histories.
    “Most of the bodies were dragged to a bomb crater and simply disposed of by C4 explosives and Claymore mines.”
    He says it was simply a matter of convenience – though it sounds shocking.
    “Three of the bodies were strapped upside down to the back of an APC and transported into Xuyen Moc.”
    Official reports say all the bodies were buried intact.
    “The last thing the Australian public wanted to hear was anything to do with the mistreatment of bodies,” Mr Tate says.
    The Vietnam Veteran’s Association admits several soldiers corroborate Mr Tate’s version of events.
    “But they’ve never really been substantiated with anything other than talk,” says Ken Foster of the VVA.
    “It certainly is disturbing to hear these stories resurrected.”
    There are arguments over whether Don’s platoon existed – thought the Government recently admitted the ‘second D&E’ had been formed in battle.
    Nearly 60,000 Australians served in Vietnam – 521 lost their lives.
    Surviving veterans fear these types of allegations dishonour the memory of their fallen comrades.
    “It’s caused some controversy and cause great distress within the Vietnam Veteran’s community,” says veteran Barry Billing.
    But Mr Tate says not as distressing as what happened 40 years ago.

  8. #8
    Elite Mumbler
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    That story is about the treatment of dead soldiers bodies.

    My Lai was about the killing of live civilians.

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    War is war..The field of battle will always be muddled.

    Do not hamper the forces that are deployed. Let them fight the way they used to without handcuffs. Blood should be spilt...

  10. #10
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    I know that, I can read and my comprehension is OK too.
    But it just goes to show that anyone, even an Aussie can commit atrocities at times of war, but I can dig up a lot more if you want, or you can too if you just try, and about any army that has ever been in combat.

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Wasn't the 'I was following orders' defence disallowed at the Nurnberg Trials by the US? I guess it pays to be judge, jury and executioner all in one.

    I couldn't help drawing parallels between this and the Lockerbie-Libyan . . . 22 murders and three and a half years house arrest. . . I wonder how the Vietnamese relatives of the murdered feel . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang
    I know that, I can read and my comprehension is OK too.
    Obviously not

    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang
    But it just goes to show that anyone, even an Aussie can commit atrocities at times of war, but I can dig up a lot more if you want, or you can too if you just try, and about any army that has ever been in combat.
    Are you that ashamed of your heritage and country that you throw red herrings and obfuscate on any issue?

    Do you actually have any comment to the news article? Are you stalking me? Stop stalking me . . . well, your definition of dtalking anyway.

    Go away boy, you bother me.

  12. #12
    Elite Mumbler
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang
    But it just goes to show that anyone, even an Aussie can commit atrocities at times of war, but I can dig up a lot more if you want, or you can too if you just try, and about any army that has ever been in combat.
    I don't doubt that, but I think if it was, say, Canadian soldiers purposely slaughtering an entire village of civilians in Afghanistan, I think the punishment would be a little more severe than three and a half years house arrest.

  13. #13
    watterinja
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    Easy to arm-chair debate this one, I guess.

    His choice was probably as follows:
    1. Accept & carry out superior orders; or,
    2. Refuse the orders & be branded a traitor, to be executed - especially if any of the soldiers under his command died in the action.

    A very difficult situation he found himself in. War is never a pretty thing - everyone fears for their own lives. Very few jurors would ever have been in such a situation as this man found himself in, as would very few on this board.

    Sounds like he became the scapegoat in this case. Many, many other atrocities would have gone by the wayside - unnoticed.

  14. #14
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    There were some American soldiers at My Lai that pointed their guns at their fellow soldiers to get them to stop. Sorry, no link, but I saw interviews with them once.

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    Are you that ashamed of your heritage and country that you throw red herrings and obfuscate on any issue?

    Do you actually have any comment to the news article? Are you stalking me? Stop stalking me . . . well, your definition of dtalking anyway.
    To answer your first question, No I am not ashamed of my country or my heritage as you seem to be of yours with your constant denigration of the USA at any slight that you find. Not red herrings as it is fact that you ignore and claim the moral high ground.

    And as to your second
    It is not actually a NEWS article as it is a rehash of 40 year old news, I am not stalking you nor am I quoting you in only part of your statements so as to change the meanings, but then I am not as well qualified in the use of the English language as a professional teacher or TEFLer as it seems to be called here.

  16. #16
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by watterinja
    Easy to arm-chair debate this one, I guess. His choice was probably as follows: 1. Accept & carry out superior orders; or, 2. Refuse the orders & be branded a traitor, to be executed - especially if any of the soldiers under his command died in the action.
    I beg your pardon? Executed?

    You're right, though, it is easy to debate it. It was wrong. Done.

    Many, many other atrocities would have gone by the wayside - unnoticed
    That's true, too. Those guilty, up to and including presidents and prime ministers, should be charged and tried but it doesn't excuse his actions.

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    Hansum Man! panama hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang
    Not red herrings as it is fact that you ignore and claim the moral high ground.
    Ok, . . . humouring time . . . check and read the article and then reply . . . this has to do with Mai Lai, in Vietnam . . . not some red herring you throw in to talk about other issues. That's what a red herring is, BG . . . please try to keep up

    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang
    It is not actually a NEWS article as it is a rehash of 40 year old news
    Please read the article before making such a complete fool of yourself


    Is it acceptable that the guy served 3 1/2 years under house arrest for murdering 22 people? And his commanding officer . . . zero!

    Nurnberg?

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    Originally Posted by blackgang
    14.05.09, 05:52 PM : I am finished with you for all time
    Due to the facy that you are a complete idiot. even if you are a TEFLer

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    Well, it seems that justice is only dished out by the victors!
    And history too seems only to remember the victors! (Because they write it)
    Vietnam seems to be an oddball in history - it's a bit of a "grey area" The Americans lost the war but kind of won the media and perverted history there. Shit on their own troops - a pretty bad show all round really, but what can you expect from a race of downtrodden browbeaten, slaves to the dollar.

    But justice?

    Nurnburg really defines the hypocrisy that the western powers were capable of, Rudolph Hess, almost 50 years in Spandau - no real convictions - murdered by the British Secret Service at the time he was possibly going to be released (by Gorbachev) as a blind old man - out of the 2nd World War for more than 4 years - in the Alchoholic Zionist, Churchills captivity in the UK.

    Slaughtering 22 civilians = 3 1/2 years house arrest! (It really isn't the sentence - that part is a joke - The poor bastard probably regrets this for the rest of his life! and held to account - Who held good old Winston to account for the hundreds of thousands he MURDERED with his area bombing campaigns on the German civilian population?

    Like I say, history is written by the victors!

    But that was war eh, what about Aung San Shu Khi? She got more "time" for nothing!

  20. #20
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    america has has illegal torture chambers around the world, it occupies over 100 countries, it values the life's of non-americans and americans at a level equivalent to a dollar bill, it is without doubt the most evil political organisation since the nazis.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddy View Post
    america has has illegal torture chambers around the world, it occupies over 100 countries, it values the life's of non-americans and americans at a level equivalent to a dollar bill, it is without doubt the most evil political organisation since the nazis.
    Would disagree slightly there - America is WORSE than any Nazi government ever was!

    The Nazi's in most parts abided by the Geneva convention, until provoked by the alcholic Churchill, the USA has destroyed human rights for it's own citizens in a way that degrades humanity!

    The saddest thing is, the fucking idiots LET THEM!

    Sadly, the UK is becoming the same - 20 years ago we would have had a revolution - now everyone just sits there and takes it!

    I probably will get laughed at (as usual - but hey! whatever!)

    1:America is BROKE!
    2: When people start to starve they take extreme measures, war/revolution etc.
    3: Obahma must now make the next step to prevent revolution - repeal the 2nd ammendmant.
    4: The US business/finance sectors are fucked, the healthcare is fucked -there have been too many greedy pigs at the trough!
    5:The whole country is a fragmented dissilluioned mess, they have the highest jail rates of a "civilised " society, they execute people willy nilly - what is to become of the USA?

    They should have pledged alliegance to The Monarchy - instead of being infiltrated by the vermin that now controls that "GREAT" country! - see Canada is not rife with the SHIT that the USA has!
    Last edited by Missismiggins; 22-08-2009 at 08:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missismiggins View Post

    1:America is BROKE!
    Americans are broke. The jews that scammed them are busy counting their trillions.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missismiggins
    instead of being infiltrated by the vermin that now controls that "GREAT" country! - see Canada is not rife with the SHIT that the USA has!
    When you are right, you are right..

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    Quote Originally Posted by pickel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blackgang
    But it just goes to show that anyone, even an Aussie can commit atrocities at times of war, but I can dig up a lot more if you want, or you can too if you just try, and about any army that has ever been in combat.
    I don't doubt that, but I think if it was, say, Canadian soldiers purposely slaughtering an entire village of civilians in Afghanistan, I think the punishment would be a little more severe than three and a half years house arrest.
    As apposed to roughly 10 days in prison for every person killed in the Lockerbie, Scotland TWA bombing???
    Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Missismiggins View Post

    1:America is BROKE!
    Americans are broke. The jews that scammed them are busy counting their trillions.
    I take you at face value - as most people here hate to believe that - but by christ you are 100% right - and the funny thing is - they won't try and do anything until it is far too late!

    In fact - it is too late already - they are fucked!

    The people here keep on about "equality" and "freedom" - its all been taken away from them - Bush and his fucking torture camps - where is the free America?

    Suits can turn up at your door and take you to Guantanemo bay at the drop of a hat - torture you!!! (and they have the fucking gaul to complain about Chinese Human rights) No redress nothing!

    The Americans have sold themselves to the cunts that they allowed to run that country, and to be honest, they have allowed it since they killed Kennedy!

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