Thread: 10% service charge

If this is compulsory, why not include it in the menu price? Surely a restaurant provides a service for which they charge a price already.

If this is optional, why mention it at all?

Just an accounting measure. Then the joint knows exactly how much is to be split among staff each month, as I know it. Heck, the gardeners, maids and laundry workers at one swish resort made an extra Bt30-40,000 a month from these mandatory tips in high season.

At our restaurant we include service charge only when there is 6 or more adults and they are all dining. We don't add it if they are just drinking or if people in the group are coming and going separately.

The reason that it is not included on the menu price is because the menu price on the tax receipt is what the restaurant keeps, then the 10% service charge goes to the waitress's, bar staff and kitchen staff.

This also the same reason that vat is added separately, it keeps it all separate and the vat man is happy.

Also if a customers bill has service charge on it then the staff don't expect a tip.

I cant vouch for all restaurants giving 100% of the tips and service charge back to the staff, but I do.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by The Fresh Prince

The reason that it is not included on the menu price is because the menu price on the tax receipt is what the restaurant keeps, then the 10% service charge goes to the waitress's, bar staff and kitchen staff.

This also the same reason that vat is added separately, it keeps it all separate and the vat man is happy.

Also if a customers bill has service charge on it then the staff don't expect a tip.

I cant vouch for all restaurants giving 100% of the tips and service charge back to the staff, but I do.

Hope this helps.

I see, but that means it is a compulsory tip, which isn't what tipping is all about, and also that you make your customers' bills more complex to make the vat man's life easier, which seems backwards business sense. Fine in a business to business transaction, but it seems bonkers in a restaurant where people expect menu prices to be menu prices.

I dont know about Thailand, but you are not obliged to pay service charges in some countries.

Originally Posted by lesmiles

but that means it is a compulsory tip

Yes, but as I said, its only on dining parties of six or more and its stated on the menu so they know what they're getting before its ordered.

Originally Posted by lesmiles

If this is compulsory, why not include it in the menu price? Surely a restaurant provides a service for which they charge a price already.

If this is optional, why mention it at all?

WTF are you talking about? In every post you've made so far you've shown that you're yet another victimised self-pitying tosser, grow a pair and deal with it properly - stop whining to a bunch of people who couldn't care less about your imaginary problems.

Originally Posted by The Fresh Prince

The reason that it is not included on the menu price is because the menu price on the tax receipt is what the restaurant keeps, then the 10% service charge goes to the waitress's, bar staff and kitchen staff.

Sorry FP, sounds like a load of rubbish to me. Your menu is priced for the convenience of the VAT man over your customers?

The obvious reason why there is the menu price, plus 10% service charge and 17.5% tax is to make the items appear cheaper to customers so they order more. It's not much more than a sales technique.

Originally Posted by tjyflhol

and 17.5% tax

You're in uk mode there dude I think Thailand is 7% isn't it?

Actually the Uk has been reduced to 15% between Dec 08 to Dec 09.

^ Is VAT that high now? Sheesh. I do agree that the service charge is a crock. Thailand never had tipping before, then the farang come in and start feeling sorry for the staff, who often would rather sit and chat, read mags and ignore you, once they stood there to make you order right away. Never had a place where the waitress served and then came back to check if all was OK. They just don't mind their tables. I only saw VAT and service charges at the high-end joints, mostly hotel restaurants. I saw it as a way for the venue to pay lower wages and have the clientele fill in the gap.

^^ You are right there Spin. Not even been in the UK for 8 years either.

^ Agreed Jet. It's a forced 10% tip for staff that often don't give the service that warrants it. Lot of smaller places in Thailand do this now, not just hi end restaurants.

And then they try to tell us it's for the bookkeeping.

The reason that it is not included on the menu price is because the menu price on the tax receipt is what the restaurant keeps, then the 10% service charge goes to the waitress's, bar staff and kitchen staff.

Then you should up your menu prices and pay your staff a decent enough wage that they don't need to survive on the service charge.

If it's just a bonus to their wages, then customers should be allowed to choose whether they pay it not, based on how good the service was. Now you have a situation where your staff can give slack service and they still get a share of the forced tip.

Agree with you all. I didn't eat out much as I liked to cook my own chow the way I like it. Could never eat the whole portion either, so the dogs were happy.
I think tipping is more a North American thing. 15% at least or you get crap service next time. And, the service here has gone downhill; can't believe how stupid the waiters/waitresses are.
Do you tip in the UK? I don't remember doing it at the pub. France yes, but other countries?

Tipping is OZ is only expected in restaurants.
But we do pay our service people a decent wage.

Was told by a waitress in Florida that they are taxed on projected tips whether they earn it or not. Is that true?

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Do you tip in the UK?

Only when eating out somewhere nice in my experience.

There is VAT, and there is Service charge. A bill that has both added is "++", a typical example being a four star hotel in Thailand.

VAT is legit, SC is bullshit- but theres nowt you can do about it.

VAT- basically, larger operators will add VAT seperately, smaller operators will not. Reason being, smaller operators either don't pay any VAT, or a minimal amount. They are small, and below the radar as far as the Taxman goes. Biggies do not have that luxury- especially if foreign companies!

SC- the concept may seem sound, but the reality is all too often bullshit. Add 10% which is spread between the service staff, so a form of tip, right? Well, maybe. Farang owned businesses tend to do it this way, Chinese owned businesses not. Many Cinese (and no doubt Thai) owned businesses do not distribute SC to staff, or only a part of it. Justification- 'it's to go towards their uniform', or nonsense like that.

At their worst, some Chinese owned businesses even keep the Tips you leave over and above the bill! I'm not kidding- a perfect example is Mom Aroi's in Naklua (and a couple more of them in Pattaya & Bangers). The owner is a rich man, but if you want the lowly staff to receive any of that tip, press it into their hand. How mean is that?

And in Asia, if you do leave a Tip don't add it to your credit card bill. Leave a few notes. The tipping model here tends not to be a percentage of the Bill either, it tends to be a cash amount. Twenty bht is fine for a normal meal, 50- 100 well appreciated for an upmarket meal. It is mostly tourists that go beyond that, although no doubt they love you for it.

One more thing- if theres a place that adds SC without it being mentioned on the menu, it's a place that caters mainly for dumb tourists. Pay up, then avoid it like the plague, and tell others. Chances are it's no frikkin good anyway, just trading off it's touristy location. There are far better, cheaper places you can find.

At our restaurant we include service charge only when there is 6 or more adults and they are all dining.

do dining parties of 6 get better service at the table than dining parties of 4, or 2 ?

^ 5555

Originally Posted by Panda

Was told by a waitress in Florida that they are taxed on projected tips whether they earn it or not. Is that true?

I got dinged by the IRS years ago when I waitressed from tips on credit card invoices. The jerks averaged those and based on my total ringout for the year, tallied my tip taxes accordingly. Oh ya? How about D&Ds, tips to my busboys, bartenders, chefs, doormen, and zip tips on some cash tables? They said "prove it."

^ Surely the onus was on THEM to prove otherwise? You should have contested - sounds like you were bullied.

At their worst, some Chinese owned businesses even keep the Tips you leave over and above the bill! I'm not kidding- a perfect example is Mom Aroi's in Naklua (and a couple more of them in Pattaya & Bangers). The owner is a rich man, but if you want the lowly staff to receive any of that tip, press it into their hand. How mean is that?

Not just Chinese business, my wife worked for a Western owned one here in udon, the staff were promised a bonus, never eventuated, and any tips they kept for themselves.

If I can avoid I don't patronize any place that has a separate service charge. I used to eat at Bourbon st In Bangkok, when he surreptitiously added in small print at the bottom. +10% service and + VAT charge I stopped going. I always tip but like to decide myself the level of tip I am giving

Originally Posted by Panda

Tipping is OZ is only expected in restaurants.
But we do pay our service people a decent wage.

Was told by a waitress in Florida that they are taxed on projected tips whether they earn it or not. Is that true?

Yes it is. I can't recall what the IRS assume- I don't think it is the "standard" (as in expected no matter how crap the service) 15%.

I have a Discount card for FP's place which is for more than the service charge and was given to me free after I had been there a couple of times, however I do find the service there worthy of a tip.

If I go to a restaurant and think that the service didn't justify the charge, like PP I would not frequent the place again, but if we avoid going to places where there is a 10% service charge our choice becomes very limited as most decent restaurants apply a service charge. Can't argue with the VAT of course because that is the law and they either have to show it as included or as a separate item.

I actually expect there to be a service charge and accept it as part of the cost of the meal or the room rate. By the way, The Sukhothai Hotel has a suite at 82,000 baht ++ per night, the cheapest room is 10,000 baht ++ so the staff must be on a good earner from the service charge alone.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

stop whining to a bunch of people who couldn't care less about your imaginary problems.

It seems that a lot more people want to discuss my "imaginary problem" whine than your whine about my thread subject matter. Bye.

Originally Posted by lesmiles

Bye.

Where are you going?