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  1. #1
    I am in Jail

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    Racist Scientists??

    Is this racist? if not? why not? so may other similar examples, professional opinions and studies have been considered racist when differences are pointed out, why is this type of conclusion NOT considered racist? I'll give my opinion after some point after discussion has been opened on the topic..

    Print Story: For Blacks, Risk of Heart Disease Starts Much Younger - Yahoo! News

    For Blacks, Risk of Heart Disease Starts Much Younger

    By ALICE PARK Alice Park Fri Mar 20, 10:35 am ET
    For decades, heart disease has had the dubious honor of being the leading killer of Americans. Most heart-related deaths happen among the elderly, by far the largest at-risk group for cardiovascular disease. But a new study finds that an alarming portion of heart failure cases are occurring in a much younger group - under age 50 - and overwhelmingly among African Americans.
    In the first large-scale study to document the extent of the race gap in heart disease, researchers report that one in 100 black adults develop heart failure in their 30s and 40s - a rate 20 times higher than that of similarly aged white men and women. In fact, the heart failure rate among young black adults was more like that of white men and women in their 50s and 60s. "What these data point out is that it's important to recognize that disease patterns differ in different populations," says Dr. Kirsten Bibbins-Domingo, one of the study's authors and co-director of the Center for Vulnerable Populations at the University of California, San Francisco, and San Francisco General Hospital. "We would have completely missed this at-risk group had we only been looking at older age groups. We would have also missed them if we had not been studying African Americans in large numbers." (See the top 10 medical breakthroughs of the past year.)
    The new report, published in the March 19 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, is a large government-funded survey that began in 1985. The aim of the study was to document the frequency of heart disease among young adults, so researchers recruited more than 5,000 volunteers from four cities and tracked them for 20 years, measuring their blood pressure, weight, cholesterol, fasting blood sugar and kidney function. These tests were repeated six times over the two-decade period.
    The black adults who developed heart disease early had at least one of four risk factors - high blood pressure, being overweight, chronic kidney disease or low levels of "good" cholesterol (high-density cholesterol, or HDL). Blood pressure and heart risk rose in step: for each 10 mm increase in diastolic blood pressure (the bottom number of the ratio), the risk of having heart failure in their 40s doubled. For each 5.7 increase in body mass index (BMI), a ratio of weight and height, the risk of developing heart failure increased by 40%. And each 13.3 mg/dL drop in HDL levels also boosted the risk of heart disease by 40%.
    But the largest risk factor for heart failure among this group was chronic kidney disease, a condition that is often triggered by untreated diabetes and obesity. Black adults with chronic kidney disease experienced a stunning 20-fold jump in their risk of heart failure, compared with black adults without kidney disease. "Here we have tangible evidence that heart failure in the young is a real dilemma," says Dr. Clyde Yancy, president-elect of the American Heart Association.
    Although young black adults in the study were more likely than whites to have risk factors for heart disease - on average, the baseline blood pressure of blacks who went on to develop heart disease was 10 mm higher than that of whites - Bibbins-Domingo and her co-investigators also showed that this population did not get appropriate medical treatment for their conditions, if any at all. At the beginning of the study, 75% of black participants with hypertension were not taking medication for their condition; 10 years later, 57% still remained untreated. (The study did not provide a corresponding figure for white hypertension patients, but past research has documented a well-known disparity in treatment.)
    "The number of individuals with controlled blood pressure is embarrassingly low," says Yancy. "That indicates a problem not only of understanding the biology of blood pressure, and why it occurs more frequently in young African Americans, but also why we aren't intervening more aggressively and effectively to treat it. Does it represent some form of bias? Of stereotyping? Or lack of access to care?"
    It is probably a combination of all of those factors that prevents adequate treatment of hypertension in the black community, and the end result is that African Americans are more likely to develop further risk factors for heart disease, none of which are being treated aggressively enough to protect this population from early illness. "Our ability to intervene early and appropriately is limited," says Yancy. "That is something that we need to change because I think it's a crisis." Studies like this one that document the problem could be an important first step in sounding the alarm.

  2. #2
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    Not racist. Eurocentric perhaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    Is this racist? if not? why not? so may other similar examples, professional opinions and studies have been considered racist when differences are pointed out, why is this type of conclusion NOT considered racist? I'll give my opinion after some point after discussion has been opened on the topic..
    the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races
    nope.

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    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Aside from diet, genetics plays a strong role in probability of contracting disease. African Americans have a much higher probability of having Sickle Cell Anemia as well. Nothing racists about it. Just genetics.

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    ^
    Sickle cell anemia protects against malaria, so, could be the product of evolution.

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    Just genetics.
    Indeed. Couldn't be simpler.

    Genetics are the reasons why Kenyans are such good long distance runners, Abos are pretty much immune from contracting skin cancer while white Aussies have the highest rate in the world, and why SEAs are good for not a lot other then simplistic fun.

    Simply genetics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Mao
    Genetics are the reasons why Kenyans are such good long distance runners, Abos are pretty much immune from contracting skin cancer while white Aussies have the highest rate in the world, and why SEAs are good for not a lot other then simplistic fun.
    first off thank you everyone so far for your thoughtful and considered posts for consideration and discussion..

    Ahhhh! now were getting to it!! it is precisely statements like these that in very recent years have been considered racist, more than a few color commentators on sports programs have made such observations regarding athleticism and been resoundingly condemned for it to the point of being black balled and loosing their jobs and having their reputations seriously blemished..

    so why is one any different than the other??

    One such announcer merely mentioned that black basketball players generally have a better ability to jump higher than white players due to the larger gluteus maximus muscles they have which bares out a fair bit of scientific fact and is also related to genetics.. he was immediately assaulted verbally and branded a racist regarding his comments and dismissed from his job after decades of stellar commentating..

    A former professional baseball coach was similarly dismissed in shame for very similar observations and comments..

    these people were also considered experts in their field if not scientists but as experts it is their job to evaluate such strengths and weaknesses in athletes and do that with a wide range of tools to get an edge including scientific research.. They are also college educated and therefore should not be so easily dismissed nor vilified just for espousing such an observation or opinion based on the same sort of empirical experience as any scientist..

    I submit that those examples are not racist and moreover can apply to many different types of athletics in which blacks excel over whites or other races and is not demeaning in any way but more over it is a compliment to their athleticism and body structure and what could be achieved if applied in such positive manners..

    Now I do not see any racism in that statement but as PC goes it could most certainly be considered in that light by many.. there in lies the hypocrisy and confusion..
    Last edited by DrivingForce; 21-03-2009 at 05:11 PM.

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    ^Yes, a similar thing happened in the UK, Ron Atkinson called a player a "lazy black french [at][at][at][at]" and was sacked the next day. UNbelievable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Mao
    Indeed. Couldn't be simpler. Genetics are the reasons why Kenyans are such good long distance runners, Abos are pretty much immune from contracting skin cancer while white Aussies have the highest rate in the world, and why SEAs are good for not a lot other then simplistic fun. Simply genetics.
    well done, you've simplified a subject to the point of idiocy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickA View Post
    ^Yes, a similar thing happened in the UK, Ron Atkinson called a player a "lazy black french [at][at][at][at]" and was sacked the next day. UNbelievable.
    ok hopefully you're taking the piss as that is not at all what the example was..let's not turn the thread into stupid, non-relevent comments please?

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    ^the guy was lazy, french and black.

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    maybe.... and for many those might be valid, legitimate reasons for his being labeled....maybe even me... But for the purposes of this discussion I'd like to make equivalent comparisons..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Aside from diet, genetics plays a strong role in probability of contracting disease. African Americans have a much higher probability of having Sickle Cell Anemia as well. Nothing racists about it. Just genetics.
    So is genetics exclusive to disease immunity or vulnerability? or reasonably speaking does it extend to other various attributes or drawbacks of a given race? and does pointing that fact out make a person racist? if so why the hypocrisy?

    without taking this to a demeaning level I need to use this example.. Mutts in most cases are considered the most intelligent, healthy, loyal breeds of dog over many pure breeds. It seems that cross breeding in many cases strengthens the breed and often eliminates some racially genetic disease vulnerabilities, isn't it probable that other traits can be likewise enhanced and that making observation of that should not be considered racist..

    For example is it just exposure to western education and culture that makes a child born to a westerner here in most cases more intelligent than a local Thai child?

    everything is speaking in general terms here please don't loose sight of that...

    Donkey's and horses bred together make a jackass that has far more durability and intelligence with less stubbornness than just a pure bred Donkey. that question is expressly for our resident expert jackass by the way so BG have at it when ever you're ready....

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    It's the rap music they listen to.

    Heavy beats interfere with the natural rhythm of the heart.

  15. #15
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    For example is it just exposure to western education and culture that makes a child born to a westerner here in most cases more intelligent than a local Thai child?
    A Thai child or an English child have essentially the same "intelligence". Exposure to a superior educational system and parental guidance are the key to a child reaching maximum potential. The question could be reversed. Why do Asian children in western nations academically out score Caucasians? Are Asian more intelligent?
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

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    Why do Asian children in western nations academically out score Caucasians
    Cause their parents will pour boiling water over them if they don't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    For example is it just exposure to western education and culture that makes a child born to a westerner here in most cases more intelligent than a local Thai child?
    A Thai child or an English child have essentially the same "intelligence". Exposure to a superior educational system and parental guidance are the key to a child reaching maximum potential. The question could be reversed. Why do Asian children in western nations academically out score Caucasians? Are Asian more intelligent?
    ok so along that line of thinking why is it that even Thai's think very often that a mixed race child is more attractive over the average Thai child.. again generally speaking..

    same goes for most mixed race blacks with other races..but it isn't generally just restricted to looks there are other notable strengths too..

    I agree with you on the Asian's in western educational systems but that in and of itself could be construed as racist since most of the oldest civilizations in the world are in Asia, why are they so far behind? theoretically they should be generations ahead..

    I also attribute that educational achievement to a differing sense of obligation and commitment where family is concerned and future generations more over an intelligence quotient.. I would even go so far as to suggest that per capita they achieve more in western educational systems over the indigenous population if such a term can be applied.. Is that observation racist? I think there are studies that suggest my conclusion is sound.. I just don't have access to them at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Mao View Post
    Why do Asian children in western nations academically out score Caucasians
    Cause their parents will pour boiling water over them if they don't?
    actually that's a bit more direct than what I meant, but it has some accurate undertones relative to what I said as well in my above post..

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    why is it that even Thai's think very often that a mixed race child is more attractive over the average Thai child.. again generally speaking..
    Who knows? Sure wasn't always that way. Not so long ago, they were considered societal outcasts. Might have something to do with western marketing influence?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    the oldest civilizations in the world are in Asia, why are they so far behind?
    There was a time when they were far ahead. It was the actions of their government's in isolating themselves from industrial nations that caused the big setback. Started when the Ming Dynasty closed all outside contact with the world and continued pretty much up through Mao's rule. They are making a comeback now however.

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    A scientist one told me that genetics is to blame for black people having black skin! Racist fucker!

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    Inbreeding or breeding between people of similar genes leads to specialisms, such as , being tall or fast, but can also lead to diseases or weaknesses.

    Cross-breeding leads to more average people.

    Ask Darwin, he married his cousin and all his kids died.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    For example is it just exposure to western education and culture that makes a child born to a westerner here in most cases more intelligent than a local Thai child?
    A Thai child or an English child have essentially the same "intelligence". Exposure to a superior educational system and parental guidance are the key to a child reaching maximum potential. The question could be reversed. Why do Asian children in western nations academically out score Caucasians? Are Asian more intelligent?
    There is no doubt that environment plays a major role in the mental development of people. But is it not possible that genetics is also a factor in a persons intelligence?

    One may very well be able to find a number of Thai children and English children that have essentially the same "intelligence". But I also think it very likely that one could easily find a number fo Thai children and English children that do not have essentially the same "intelligence". At the same time IMHO it is likely that within a group of English children (or Thai chlidren for that matter) the intelligence level varies within the group at least partially due to genetics.
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion" - Steven Weinberg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norton View Post
    Aside from diet, genetics plays a strong role in probability of contracting disease. African Americans have a much higher probability of having Sickle Cell Anemia as well.
    and std's and aids and a thousand other diseases related to lifestyle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    Mutts in most cases are considered the most intelligent, healthy, loyal breeds of dog over many pure breeds.
    really?

    evidence ?


    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    For example is it just exposure to western education and culture that makes a child born to a westerner here in most cases more intelligent than a local Thai child?
    this is why this whole thread is just wrong and stupid.

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    ^Of course genetics has something to do with intelligence. I watched a program about the School Maths Olympics. It was basically a meeting of Aspergers kids from around the world. Geniuses, but they couldn't buy a bag of sweets from a shop. Anyway, the Chinese kicked arse.

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