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  1. #1
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    A question for the software giants here.

    I had a meeting today with the technical development guys from XXXX (sorry top secret) and with regard to the development of a new rugby ball.

    We have the special machine tools he has been looking for and to assist him on a new project he is working on.

    The new development is with regard to the dimples on a synthetic rugby ball and how his company can develop a better areodynamic ball but not sacrifice handling in wet conditions. If you remove the dimples the ball will fly further because of less in-flight friction but the ball will be too hard to grip in wet playing conditions.

    We done some some different patterns, dimple configurations and height profiles using our 3D Solid Works Programe but then I suggested whether there is a programe that could rate wind resistance and when this new model ball is in flight. Everyone looked at each other and said what a great idea.

    I tried google when I arrived home but nothing come up!

    I am aware that the areospace and the auto industry trial different body shapes and with regard to air flow and wind resistance using C.A.E software so I ask if there are any wise computer programe people here who know of any available software I could use that doesn't cost millions of dollars.

    Thanks in advance for your help.

  2. #2
    In transit to Valhalla

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    That sounds very exiting interesting and fun for you to work with LT, I don't suppose they will give you test time in the BMW/Sauber wind tunnel for free Good luck with your project

  3. #3
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    er , dimples make it fly further

    Golf ball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    or are you talking about bumps ?

    do you make footballs and soccer balls ?

  4. #4
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    ^ Thanks mate and this is exactly what I love about my job at times.

    Maybe if we can crack something new and innovative I will write up a patent and hopefully make some bucks out of it.

    More exciting then designing newer buckets!

  5. #5
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    would you like a design for a football and a soccer ball that is different but serves a purpose ?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick
    or are you talking about bumps ?
    Exactly mate bumps and to enable better grip which again seems to be detrimental to the ball's flight!

    In about 3 hours using our solid work programe we come up with different patterns and bump heights on the ball panels and it would be great to find some software that we can use to simulate its flight and when adapting such patterns.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick
    would you like a design for a football and a soccer ball that is different but serves a purpose ?
    Actually an internationally certified Rugby ball has set dimensions and weights so what we want to do is modify the dimples to achieve better flight when passing and or kicking.

  8. #8
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    a rugby ball will not fly except in a random motion

    it would be very hard to model

    FloWizard: Rapid Flow Modeling Software for Design from Fluent

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick
    a rugby ball will not fly except in a random motion
    Actually not completely correct mate.

    Players are coached now how to pass and kick the ball in a torpedo motion and to achieve more distance and accuracy.

    Next game watch how fast and far these blokes pass the ball.

    Makes for a faster and more exciting game.

    By the way thanks for the link!

  10. #10
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    What about this?

    Piranha Pingke Rugby Ball

    25.00

    RRP 25

    Piranha Pingke match ball. 4 ply ball with enhanced dimple surface. Valve situated on the seam for better flight.

    from Piranha Pingke Rugby Ball [RBPIRP040] - 25.00 : Hawkinsport & Son

  11. #11
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  12. #12
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  13. #13
    watterinja
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    Send me an e-mail (pm). CFD is my stock-in-trade.

    If your requirements are too onerous, I'll help you find someone who may be interested in taking on your project.

    Practically, though - I do believe that initial estimates of surface effects & shape could be developed in a drastically faster timescale than CFD would take. As in 1:100

  14. #14
    watterinja
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    If you remove the dimples the ball will fly further because of less in-flight friction
    Depends on the local flow regime. Dimples actually do quite the opposite - in controlling boundary break-away & hence skin-friction effect.

  15. #15
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy
    Actually not completely correct mate. Players are coached now how to pass and kick the ball in a torpedo motion and to achieve more distance and accuracy.
    yes I fully understand that - but I have never done or seen it done perfectly - it will always wobble

  16. #16
    watterinja
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    This numeric solution is not quite right. The inflow stream should be of uniform colour & not streaky. There seem to be some numeric aberrations... Well, on my laptop screen, at least.

    Seriously to the OP, you are welcome to contact me if you need advice - I run simulations 24/7 for my research interests.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldrick View Post
    er , dimples make it fly further

    Golf ball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    or are you talking about bumps ?

    do you make footballs and soccer balls ?
    yes I was going to say that, the dimples actually reduce surface friction not the other way around..

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy
    Players are coached now how to pass and kick the ball in a torpedo motion and to achieve more distance and accuracy.
    shit I knew you cousins were a bit slower than us on the uptake, but you're just now figuring out what we've been doing in American football for years..

  19. #19

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrivingForce
    shit I knew you cousins were a bit slower than us on the uptake, but you're just now figuring out what we've been doing in American football for years..
    The company that has approached me is probably one of the Global biggest sporting goods designers, manufacturers and suppliers and the shapes and heights of these profiles have never been attempted before.

    Like any existing product design things can and will always be improved and I look forward to being part off and assisting with the development!

    Once and I am legally able I will fill you in on what is happening.

    By the way to all those who have sent me links thank you.

  21. #21
    Dislocated Member

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    How about grooves instead of bump/dimples, kind of like rifle(ing)?

    Still have the grip factor.

    Just a thought.

  22. #22
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    Exactly Rob.

    I have been sitting down this afternoon doing miniature "winged keel" designs which would aid in lift and accuracy with regard to flight.

    The heights of these profiles will vary and depending on where they are postioned on each 4 ball panels.

    Very interesting project and beats designing the best industrial container in the world.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickA View Post
    ^It looks like the surface of a NCAA football.








    Too gay?

  24. #24
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but as a Rugby ball is not a blunt object when if travels point first aren't dimples or surface features always going to be counter productive to it's aerodynamic performance.

    The secret to getting a Rugby ball to travel point first is to impart spin on the ball this provides a gyroscopic effect which makes the balls flight more stable.

    If you want to add surface features for grip all well and good but you will do so at the expense of the balls flight.

    On a related issue if Solid Works triangulates it's models you might have a hell of a job keeping the detail of the dimples when you come to machine your molds. If so have you thought of using a surface modeller like ArtCAM to generate the low relief of the texture.

  25. #25
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    In order to generate spin you must have a heavier side like an American football, that's one reason our balls have threads, it provides a side with more weight so when it is rotated it continues it's rotation through momentum and maintains it's flight and spiraling orientation.

    Something along those lines on one side of the ball be it spiraling as posted above along with some sort of weighting on one side, then technique to use those spirals to create flight is then utilized just as when the quarterback begins his throwing motion that inspires the balls flight or the punter does as well by putting the threads on the top on a slight angle away from his foot so that his foot slides off the bottom and thus creating the rotation that the threads then continue while in flight through momentum..

    The weight of the threads also acts as a center seeking point and counter balance to help in maintaining a tight spiral just as a weight on a cars tire does the same since no ball is perfectly balanced and out of balance will cause wobble..

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