Thread: ANZAC day

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

And how the English were to blame, of course.

You've obviously got a bee in your bonnet about this Marmers, but I have NEVER heard any negative comments about the Brits on ANZAC Day...it's a day for showing respect, not for bitching and moaning...there's plenty of other days in the year for that...

Originally Posted by klongmaster

but I have NEVER heard any negative comments about the Brits on ANZAC Day

Originally Posted by peterpan

In memory of the ANZAC Lads that died needlessly because of the idiot strategy concocted by the English, that sent them in to die on what they knew was a pointless suicide mission.

Nor had I until yesterday.

Originally Posted by klongmaster

Bollox PB: I took three vans yesterday, all left Bangkok at 01:00 AM...we were back home by 4pm have done the Dawn Parade at Hellfire Pass and The Wreath laying ceremony at the War Cemetary...picces to come...

Was there too mate ... if I'd seen a Bangkok Day Tours shirt I'd have said hi.

^PPs felt obliged to take over the mantle left by Ant following his premature departure and before his morphing into Pistol Pilot...

Originally Posted by Wayne Kerr

Was there too mate ... if I'd seen a Bangkok Day Tours shirt I'd have said hi.

Good thinking WK...it's annoying when there are people there you would like to meet but you don't know they are at the same place as you...

next time mate...

Oh...can you see yourself in any of the pics?..

Originally Posted by klongmaster

but I have NEVER heard any negative comments about the Brits on ANZAC Day

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Nor had I until yesterday.

I have. But that was a Turkish tour guide on the Gallipoli peninsula. Seemed to take much satisfaction in pointing out that the British war ships stopped their pre bombardment early to break for tea before some Aussies went over the top. Got the impression that the Poms aren't much liked over there.

Here's a snap of our service in Kalgoorlie.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by klongmaster

but I have NEVER heard any negative comments about the Brits on ANZAC Day

Originally Posted by peterpan

In memory of the ANZAC Lads that died needlessly because of the idiot strategy concocted by the English, that sent them in to die on what they knew was a pointless suicide mission.

Nor had I until yesterday.

You should read a bit of history then marmers.....your mob were kunts.

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

You should read a bit of history then marmers.....your mob were kunts.

You should probably try reading a bit yourself. Start with reading up on the Australian Generals Hughes and Anthill who ordered suicide charges on Turkish positions on 'the Nek' that caused thousands of needless ANZAC deaths.

As it was the first major conflict that Australian and NZ troops lost heavy casualties it caused them to question their sacrifice in the name of the British Empire, and so the campaign shook the confidence in British Command.

^I have.In fact better than that....I have my grandfathers accounts on the matter.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by klongmaster

but I have NEVER heard any negative comments about the Brits on ANZAC Day

Originally Posted by peterpan

In memory of the ANZAC Lads that died needlessly because of the idiot strategy concocted by the English, that sent them in to die on what they knew was a pointless suicide mission.

Nor had I until yesterday.

Read the book "Gallipoli" Marmers, its an eye opener, the ANZAC troops were sent in there on a futile mission, they were sacrificed for no strategic benefit, they had no chance against a better equipped and stronger force. At that time colonial troops were considered as somewhat disposable.
I have no bias in this, its just what happened.

Originally Posted by peterpan

At that time colonial troops were considered as somewhat disposable.

If that is the case, then explain why many more Brits and French were injured and killed?

Originally Posted by EmperorTud

Originally Posted by peterpan

At that time colonial troops were considered as somewhat disposable.

If that is the case, then explain why many more Brits and French were injured and killed?

True, but thats over the whole Dardanelles campaign including the boats sunk, and as a proportion of casualties over population the ANZACs suffered far more, for a war that was half a world away.

One source gives Allied casualties, including deaths from drowning and accident, as about 265,000, of whom some 46,000 were killed in action or died of wounds or disease.

Dr. Bean (Historian) gives Anzac casualties as: Australian 26,094 (7594 killed), New Zealand 7571 (2431 killed). The Australian War Memorial at Canberra gives the Australian casualties as 8709 killed and 19,000 wounded.

The New Zealand official figures given with their World War I statistics issued in 1932 also show a higher proportion of killed, 2721, and a total casualty figure of 7247.

Dr. Bean, whose research was most carefully carried out, gives the total British loss as 119,696 (43,000 killed) and the French as 27,004 (8000 killed).

The greatest visible loss (and to morale, too) was the sinking of six battleships, one French and five British: on March 18, mined during the attempt to force the Straits, Bouvet (French) HMS Ocean and Irresistible; on the night of May 12/13, torpedoed in Morto Bay, near Helles, HMS Goliath; on May 25, torpedoed off Gaba Tepe, near Anzac, HMS Triumph; and on May 27, torpedoed off Helles,
HMS Majestic.

Originally Posted by EmperorTud

Originally Posted by peterpan

At that time colonial troops were considered as somewhat disposable.

If that is the case, then explain why many more Brits and French were injured and killed?

there were a shed more of them...by chance????

Originally Posted by peterpan

True, but thats over the whole Dardanelles campaign including the boats sunk, and as a proportion of casualties over population the ANZACs suffered far more, for a war that was half a world away.

You'll have to accept that British soldiers suffered just as much as their Aussie and NZ counterparts. It's difficult, as Gallipoli was a defining moment in Aussie and New Zealand history but that is the truth of the matter.

Originally Posted by EmperorTud

Originally Posted by peterpan

True, but thats over the whole Dardanelles campaign including the boats sunk, and as a proportion of casualties over population the ANZACs suffered far more, for a war that was half a world away.

You'll have to accept that British soldiers suffered just as much as their Aussie and NZ counterparts. It's difficult, as Gallipoli was a defining moment in Aussie and New Zealand history but that is the truth of the matter.

Can't disagree with that. but i do like this

Some Australian troops considered British regiments stuck too much to regulations when encamped, whereas some British troops thought Australian regiments made bad conditions worse by lack of attention to routine. Birdwood admitted to Lord Kitchener, Secretary of State for War, that, although 'my men are A1 in attack', they are 'curiously callow, and negligent, and the only thing I fear is a really heavy night attack ... as I cannot get the men to bestir themselves and hurry up to repulse an attack at once'. The Australians were usually distinguished by boldness in attack, the British by discipline in retreat. The New Zealanders were widely thought, not just by themselves, to possess both Australian and British virtues in warfare. Perhaps the most remarkable individual achievement of the campaign was that of Lieutenant-Commander Bemard Freyberg, awarded the DSO for swimming naked in an ice-cold sea for two miles to light flares on the coast at Bulair. Freyberg later gained the VC in France and became Governor-General of New Zealand, among other distinctions. The epitome of Australian guts was Albert Jacka, who killed seven Turks in a single engagement and was awarded the VC.

Some Australian troops considered British regiments stuck too much to regulations when encamped, whereas some British troops thought Australian regiments made bad conditions worse by lack of attention to routine.

The same was commonly believed on the Western Front also.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by klongmaster

just the focus of the day is on Okers and Kiwis being how it's ANZAC Day...

And how the English were to blame, of course.

Well, as much as you'd like to, ya can't blame it on George Bush or the Americans, eh?

I guess since this is the lounge we should mention the film. I really enjoyed that film.

Influence on the arts

The Battle of Gallipoli is the subject of a 1981 movie, entitled Gallipoli, directed by Peter Weir and starring Mel Gibson. The film has been criticised for portraying the campaign as a mainly Australian one[citation needed].

In fact around 21,000 British died, 10,000 French, 8,700 Australians, 2,700 New Zealanders and 1,370 Indians. Nearly twice as many Turks died (85,000) as all the Allies combined. However it must also be noted that, relative to its population, Australia suffered more losses than any other nation in World War I[citation needed].

Eric Bogle wrote in 1972 his famous And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda after having watched, in Australia, a parade of elderly veterans of the Gallipoli campaign. Versions of this song were later separately recorded by June Tabor and The Pogues, as well as Tommy Makem and Liam Clancy.

Originally Posted by chinthee

However it must also be noted that, relative to its population, Australia suffered more losses than any other nation in World War I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

We did not become a nation because of men dying in battle fighting for a British Empire under a foreign flag and commanders. What they really happened is that the war correspondent (and later official historian) William Bean interpreted his role as uncritically supporting the Australian fighting man whilst being viciously critical of the British generals. It seems to me that Bean wrote so much effective propaganda that to this day Australians believe that the Australian fighting man is better than any other on earth. Australians now have a tendency to, whenever Australian troops have been killed in battle, to blame foreign commanders (in WW11 the British in Greece, in Singapore and North Africa; the Americans in the Pacific and later in Vietnam).


What really happened at Gallipoli of course was that, along with a large number of British troops, the ANZACs (Australian and New Zealand Army Corp) landed along a coastline in Turkey (on 25 April 1915) where it was suicidal to mount an offensive. The battle for the hills above the beaches at Gallipoli lasted eight months before the generals decided that retreat was the better part of valour.
There is absolutely no doubt that the young men of Australia, made sacrifices and that they suffered per capita casualties higher than many other nations. During the whole of the War Australia lost 60 000 troops out of a total combat force of 300 000. This is a casualty rate of 20% - very high by any standard and it is often said that one out of every two Australian families lost some one between 1914 – 1918.

WW1

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by peterpan

In memory of the ANZAC Lads that died needlessly because of the idiot strategy concocted by the English, that sent them in to die on what they knew was a pointless suicide mission.

Should I feel sorry then?

No,but you should fuck off.

Sorry, I forgot that no British soldiers found themselves in no-win situations due to gross negligence from their leaders.

I have huge respect for those who gave their lives for our freedom, but you guys seems to forget that we were in this together when ANZAC day comes around.

Bollocks.You know bugger all about what happened.Otherwise you would not have made such a fuckwit comment.It was not aimed directly at you marmers......

I know how important ANZAC day and the rememberence of Gallipoli is to those from down-under, but for you to say that some of us know bugger all about what happened or even assume that we didn't have family directly involved is sheer arrogance and ignorance on your part. Members of my family were involved in both wars and in bigger fuck-ups than that little skirmish in Turkey.

The entire British military history is one of ineptitude. How we ever won anything, let alone ruled over 25% of the world's population used to be a complete mystery to me, until I decided to find out about it. I suggest you take you head out of your arse and do the same.

I'm just grateful that my forefathers sacrificed themselves so that I have lived a life where killing people to defend my way of life has never been an issue.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

I know how important ANZAC day and the rememberence of Gallipoli is to those from down-under, but for you to say that some of us know bugger all about what happened or even assume that we didn't have family directly involved is sheer arrogance and ignorance on your part. Members of my family were involved in both wars and in bigger fuck-ups than that little skirmish in Turkey.

The entire British military history is one of ineptitude. How we ever won anything, let alone ruled over 25% of the world's population used to be a complete mystery to me, until I decided to find out about it. I suggest you take you head out of your arse and do the same.

I'm just grateful that my forefathers sacrificed themselves so that I have lived a life where killing people to defend my way of life has never been an issue.

You must have been drinking.

I didn't say that that "some of us know bugger all" I said that "you" know bugger all,otherwise you wouldn't have made that glib comment.Can you please point out where the arrogance and ignorance of my comment was?Or was that comment because you didn't like a negative comment about the British?

Well,well,well.......there has been bigger cock ups apart from a small 'skirmish' in Turkey eh.You don't say.Thanks again for the lesson.You should start a thread about British Military cock-ups,but leave out the small skirmishes.....we'll handle that.

We know about the British ruling the world.(Thanks for pointing that out though)Can you draw us some maps to enlighten us further?

I suppose I could twist your words too......respectfully suggest that when one tells somebody else to remove head from arse,you should remove yours.