Thread: Do Thais have a communication problem ?

Originally Posted by Spin

Originally Posted by keda

lo and behold the entire storefront was devoted to a special promo, Terminators 1 and 2

One of the first adjustments to make here is to disregard the farang idea that just because someone is working in a store that they might be in any way aware of that stores contents.

Probably true. They may have just been hired or maybe could not read English, or even Thai. A shelf stacker usually knows her own shelves but none of the others

Originally Posted by DrAndy

They may have just been hired or maybe could not read English, or even Thai

That may be true, maybe Thais are not as inquizitive (thats spelt wrong for sure!) or curious about their surroundings? They're certainly "different" to farangs in this aspect. No big problemo though, its not like our lives depend on finding the silicone sealant in Home Pro in record time is it?

I don't experience too many problems on a day to day basis. But, I will say, that after many years of experience driving and asking for directions, local people who live in their own moo baan, village or town for their whole life can't give you directions a few blocks away.

This has happened to me countless times, and I could never understand why my wife was so reluctant to just stop and ask for directions. I later understood it was because nobody except motorbike taxis and taxis knew where anything was.

Last week, in the maze of Phuket Town, I stopped and asked an old man shopkeeper who was sitting outside his shop (I've seen him there for at least 9 years) how to find a road in the center of town. He had no idea. I asked two others. Mai roo. Finally, I stopped the car and phoned two local Thais I knew and they drew a blank too, though they had a hint of the general direction.

I had to go back home that day, look on my Phuket town map, and easily found the road. It was a very well marked road. I found it easily the next day, but no thanks to at least 4 local Thais.

An acid test.

Ask a Thai to find a telephone number for you...

How many would immediately search for a telephone directory? (Yes, they do exist).

^ a bit harsh, because in these days and age, nobody remember or look for phone numbers, that's why we have mobiles SIM

^ I think a lot of this kind of goes back to FF's comments and are cultural. I've noticed that rather than find out the resources themselves, Thais tend to depend on a large group of contacts to phone up and know something they don't. They will in every case, call a friend to find something out, rather than try to find the resource themselves. And you're right, even simple phone directories, or Bangkok information, which can easily give the number - but no, let me try my friend, niece, whatever... That circle jerk goes on until you give up and do it yourself.

^ Exactly what I've encountered.

Go through ten conversations & still end up with no phone number.

Originally Posted by chinthee

I had to go back home that day, look on my Phuket town map, and easily found the road. It was a very well marked road. I found it easily the next day, but no thanks to at least 4 local Thais.

I've been in CM four, five years ( ). Still don;t know the name of 99% or the streets or highway numbers, I dubt there is anywhere in town I can't get you, but giving directions? it's all landmarks and left or right after or before. and it gets kind of confusing if there's more than one or two turns involved. My Ol' lady has been in town for 13 - 14 years she knows less road names than I do.

^ One thing you also have to remember is that for non-Bangkok Thais, roads are not important as a route to somewhere like they are for westerners. If you want to get somewhere, knowing the nearby market or hotel is much more useful, and the directions will similarly be something like 'big bridge - talat kwai - hotel California - K. Somchai's garage .... ' and so on.

^Excellent point. tried to green you for that.

You must under stand that in school they are tort not to think, just to copy

I'm going to do a little bit of a generalisation here. Not something I like to do, as I really don't like to stereotype, but on this subject I'm afraid it fits way too well.

There are two types......

Type One...... subservient, spend all their time Khraping or Khaing and bowing.... don't listen to a bloody word you say at all as it is more important to keep up appearances.

Type Two...... superior, it matters not one jot what you say as you are not Thai, therefore do not know best, it isn't a case of in one ear and out the other, it never make it past the first ear.

I know a few Thais that do not fall into either of those categories..... but they are in the minority.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Texpat

If you're given instructions and have to ask a question to clarify -- either you're stupid or the instruction-giver is stupid. Better to just go and do the task incorrectly rather than expose someone as dumb. Likewise, if the instructions are perfectly clear and the project falls on its face, the boss has nobody to blame.

In most western cultures, asking questions is often a sign of desire to fully understand the task. Here it's a sign of incompetence. The truth-avoidance trait also plays a part. The less you know, the more you're able to deny.

That is very nicely put and makes a lot of sense, and could explain why things are so slow here to accomplish anything meaningful,

I think the answer is not only in the culture or lifestyle (thinking of one day at a time, sabai sabai) but also in the complexity of the language.

Language vehicle thoughts, so the complexity of the vocabulary will express and articule those thought more effectively. It's no suprise that the more complex languages like German and French have also produced the greatest thinkers and philosophers, just because the language was there and complex enough to vehicle their elaborate thinking.

A bit off topic though, but "primitive" languages would only be concern with "reality" or things that "immediatey matters", not meta or fundamental thinking.

Originally Posted by DrAndy

Education should teach you to think and give you some logical thought processes; the lack of education is difficult for most of us to comprehend.

Probably, but even the "educated" ones have that communication problems here. The only Thais with no or little communication problems are those overseas Thais, who usually speak perfectly another language, and who live in an environment that stimulates their communication skills. Even those without education do "well" under those circumstances, so lack of education is not the only excuse.

good points ButtF, language does help make a civilisation. Your last point is interesting, as it does show that Thais can understand and think logically etc. I reckon living in another country and learning another language could broadly be classed as education.

as Ratchaburi said above

You must under stand that in school they are tort not to think, just to copy

that is part of the problem, even the education here does not help Thais think ahead or question what is happening

I was very pleased with the guy that helps me on the rice farm, he acts smart, thinks about things and is generally a good worker. I found out that he had been working in Saudi for four years, which seems make a big difference...or maybe he was always like he is?

I found you could ask them almost any question. You get a big pause. Then you ask again with a bit more clarification. Big pause, he/she talks to Aunty about what kind of curry they want for lunch. Ask again. Big pause, then a big "Ahhh. Over there." Etc.
Could never figure out if some are really thick or just pulling your wire. I did always love the chin jerk to indicate a direction. Rude to point, of course. And forget about north, south...

A bit off topic though, but "primitive" languages would only be concern with "reality" or things that "immediatey matters", not meta or fundamental thinking.

Define "primitive language".
Yes, there is a strong correlation between thinking and language, the Thai seems more geared towards allegory, imagery and corresponds closely to a feeling level, where it offers a subtle variety most farangs are unable to appreciate - just as we come across as emotionally naive and uneducated in polite interaction.

well Jet, was all your conversation in English or Thai? always a problem when one side does not really speak the others language well.

and why did you want to know what kind of curry they were having?

Originally Posted by stroller

A bit off topic though, but "primitive" languages would only be concern with "reality" or things that "immediatey matters", not meta or fundamental thinking.

Define "primitive language".
Yes, there is a strong correlation between thinking and language, the Thai seems more geared towards allegory, imagery and corresponds closely to a feeling level, where it offers a subtle variety most farangs are unable to appreciate - just as they come across as emotionally naive and uneducated in polite interaction.

Yes, I would hesitate to call Thai a primitive language, just because it lacks the same structure as western languages. certainly different.

but I don't understand your point about polite interaction; it seems to me that Thais are incredibly polite, not naive or uneducated at all in their interaction.

If the person you are speaking to has any level of education and respect for you, it shows in the way they address you.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

^ If you want to get somewhere, knowing the nearby market or hotel is much more useful, and the directions will similarly be something like 'big bridge - talat kwai - hotel California - K. Somchai's garage .... ' and so on.

This does work, except ,as I discovered, there are two Saphan Daengs in my area and three restaurants with the same name. So the conversation is usually about which red bridge and which restaurant.

Part of the problem seems to be that Thais are convinced that, since they know Thailand better than us, any instructions we give are bound to be incorrect and so we frequently wind up getting what they think we want.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

As for not saying 'hello' / 'goodbye' etc., in village life, is it really necessary? They just come and go as they like and are like inventories more or less. But if somebody has been away for a longer time, it seems to be different as they do seem to say hi and goodbye then.

I don't have any problem with the culture difference, that's perfectly acceptable, and I don't understand why everyone is focusing on the culture specifics, it's not the issue. The issue is they don't communicate, may it be cultural or otherwise, it doesn't matter, the one fact remains, they don't communicate, and that brings a lot of problems in their interaction with others.

Originally Posted by stroller

Define "primitive language".
Yes, there is a strong correlation between thinking and language, the Thai seems more geared towards allegory, imagery and corresponds closely to a feeling level, where it offers a subtle variety most farangs are unable to appreciate - just as we come across as emotionally naive and uneducated in polite interaction.

A few interesting points stroller, and I agree with the emotionally naive and impolite interaction, that's probably the one thing I like about the Thai language,

I used "primitive" in the broad sense, it does lack complexity in the grammar structure, vocabulary is also limited compared to other "sophisticated" languages etc... maybe "limited" language would be more appropriate than "primitive",