Is reproduction a right?

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I doubt I will ever lead a conventional life, be settled, make a good husband or be very wealthy.

I have grown comfortable with my lifestyle, had lots of experiences and made many friends and even if I tried to force myself to lead the type of 9-5 existence that our society blindly dictates we should, I would probably be a very unhappy person.

I don't believe in marraige and I would like to continue seeing parts of the world and enjoying the uncertainty of where this adventure will take me next.

Does that mean I forfeit the right to fatherhood?

[tsicar]

I

Does that mean I forfeit the right to fatherhood?

no, but should you father a child, your life as you know it will never be the same again.
i have met many people who i believe should never have been allowed to breed.

[Driventowin]

Noooooo not necessarily....um, but I'm sorry somehow I'm missing your point?

[Dalton]

I'm kind of in the same boat, been working abroad for many years, and have for the last 12 years been in Thailand, and not in 9 to 5 job. I always do what people say cant be done, I wanna beat the odds, so the business I have is pioneering here, and it get alot of attention from aqua-culture universities, we have students here almost full time, never a doll moment. That means that my time with family is limited, I cant spend the time that I would like to. My wife want to have another child, but I'm putting my foot down and say no, we have one son (my wife have) he was only 1 year old when I met his mother, so I consider myself as his father.
A lot depends on your partner as well, how does she see things ?? It's not easy to advise in a matter like this.

[Mid]

Is reproduction a right?

Yes ,

and it carries with it the DUTIES of nurturing the progeny .

[The Gentleman Scamp]

^^ It certainly isn't easy! ...The potential mother in question is the same woman I have been with for a year now. We are incompatible mostly because of the state that our lives are in and where we're both at in life.

Without going into detail and explaining the full situation, I can say that a child would complete her life and make all of her family extreemly happy. She would also make a great mother, though maybe a little over protective. I could never live in her country and I doubt I would ever be happy in mine.

Because I am still 'finding myself' I need to be alone to make money to support a child if I did have one, and I also admit that I don't want the hassle of the first few years and it is very convenient that I would be totally useless if I stayed with the mother and kid in tyhe Philippines as opposed to visiting twice a year and sending money on a regular basis.

It is risky I know, but then again how many children in this world have a conventional life? The child would have plenty of love, spoiled for attention, never see it's mum and dad fight, would be eligable for a UK passport, have the advantage of being half caucasian, and have a father who may not always be there but would do anything for his son/daughter and would be there like a best friend more than a bossy, stressed out and impatient dad which is the type I would be if I forced myself to become a bible friendly 'Hollywood' dad.

If it sounds selfish then lets not forget that having children is a selfish act anyway - we only have kids for our own enjoyment and pleasure, to bring them into this difficult and painful world is truly selfish, but then - selfishness is completely natural and nessessary for survival and it's only the tadal wave of political correctness and Christianity upon our society that has given selfishness a bad press.

and it carries with it the DUTIES of nurturing the progeny

Of all the replies that will be against me on this, the above will take some beating and yes I tend to agree - but by staying with the hyperthetical child over there, I can be the doting dad but not provide, and by all of us moving to England I am taking a big risk as I have nothing there except roots and will be taking the kid from the family that needs it the most, and by living in Thailand I am making things so expensive supporting all three in an alien country that it would compromise the support I could give were the child 3 hours flight away and surrounded by the doting sister in laws of mine who gave up on the idea of finding a man a long time ago.

[Driventowin]

So after seeing some leading posts I guess I can say I am in exactly your position and it's because I take my responsibility to my wife and family seriously that I am a stay at home father while my wife is working.

Though that's not a conscious, nor an easy choice since I can make so much more salary than she can (if I could find it). It is the only one at the moment because with the few opportunities available here anyway, it doesn't seem to be respected by anyone I have attempted to work for.

It has gotten so serious that we have and continue to consider my returning home where I no longer have any resources with our 2 boys while my wife remains here and keeps working until we can get on our feet enough to be able for her to follow us.. It's a real dodgy situation to put it mildly... These are the sort of issues you need to consider very carefully...For me I didn't have that luxury...

They need an education and obviously other things so if things don't change soon there may not be any other choice..

[The Gentleman Scamp]

They need an education

I am not a fan of Frank Zappa and I was surprised to hear he never took drugs but one of the best quotes I ever heard was "Keep your children away from schools and churches".

I agree on the latter more than the former, although you can educate your child yourself - school provides the social and interactive template to prepare you for the real world.

As for churches, it would be most likely raised in the PI which being poor is a very religious country, but that would be out of my control.

Any parent who burdens their child with religion is guilty of child abuse.

[Ivor Biggun]

Is reproduction a right?

It sure is because without it you would not be here. It's not a case of "Is reproduction a right" but the having 'freedom of choice' in everything.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

^ I know that to be true but society/religion/political correctness/all combined has been at loggerheads with mother nature for a while now and has clouded opinions for decades.

[Dalton]

It is risky I know, but then again how many children in this world have a conventional life? The child would have plenty of love, spoiled for attention, never see it's mum and dad fight, would be eligable for a UK passport, have the advantage of being half caucasian, and have a father who may not always be there but would do anything for his son/daughter and would be there like a best friend more than a bossy, stressed out and impatient dad which is the type I would be if I forced myself to become a bible friendly 'Hollywood' dad.

If you explain this to your partner and she is understanding to the situation, then I cant see why not. However I think visit only twice a year is not enough, if posible every 3rd month would be better, specially for the mother..

[Happyman]

Without getting too deep into this on the subject of religion - the edict that always makes me wonder "Who the F*ck came up with this one"
If your parents are Muslim you are automatically a muslim- WTF- If when you get older and do not accept the dogma and say that you disagree you are liable to be executed ( in some countries) as a heretic !
Ps I was educated at a Jesuit Monastry school and am ssoooo pleased that the inquisition has gone out of business!!!

[Cujo]

Oh fuck, not another Scampy and Sandra thread.

[terry57]

No, your OK Scamp,

Just keep traveling mate, making friends, shagging lovely ladies and leave the baby making business to the other fellas.

The world dont need any more babies but we all need more friends.

Cheers mate.

[friscofrankie]

Your title asks is reproduction a right then you go on to ask if your lifestyle would cause you to forfeit the right of fatherhood. The two are not the one in the same.

you then go on to describe a scenarios where you basically drop your seed and let some extended family care for the progeny of your coupling. Sounds to me like you've already opted for the forfeiture route and looking for folks here to condone that?

Nothing wrong with being a sperm donor, as far as I can see that is all you want to be. But don't kid yourself into thinking that is fatherhood. Be damn sure this is understood by the family in question. But reading further, we already see that you are planning to get the kid a UK passport and accept it as your own, just not raise and support it.

you will be made to pay for the rest of your life don't kid yourself, you will be forced out of your coveted "lifestyle" in order to pay the ordered child support whether you are there or not if you do not you will be hounded maybe your passport revoked. That's just the financial and logistic reality without going into the morality of abandoning your child to the care of others while you pursue your precious "lifestyle." if you think putting yor name on the kid and giving it the right to a UK passport will be the end of your legal responsibilities, you are be naive, no matter what assurances you get. If you think some pre-partum agreement absolves you of any moral responsibility you are just being an asshole.

If it sounds selfish then lets not forget that having children is a selfish act anyway - we only have kids for our own enjoyment and pleasure, to bring them into this difficult and painful world is truly selfish, but then - selfishness is completely natural and nessessary for survival and it's only the tadal wave of political correctness and Christianity upon our society that has given selfishness a bad press.

This is just bullshit. We have kids because it feels good getting there or the last shred of instinct to continue the species. It's what you do after you've brought a helpless, tiny creature into the world that defines your selfishness or lack thereof. It's up to you to care for and guide that creature, you shirk that duty then you are being selfish (among other things I could think to call it).

You don't want to stop your globe-trotting or make the effort to trundle the bundle of joy with you around the world tie a knot in it.

Yes, you can reproduce it is your right, but fatherhood? Your statements seem to place your precious "lifestyle" above the well-being or your progeny. Give a kid a break; don't make one.

[bkkmadness]

^ Spot on FriscoFrankie, the guy is looking for excuses to shirk his future fatherly responsibilities before he even gets a girl pregnant. Scamp you come across as a bit of a selfish prick, maybe it's time Sandra found herself a real man.

Make your choice, choose your lifestyle of choose a family, or like most people do find a balance between them.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

^ You are right but you put too much emphasis on the words 'passport' and 'lifestyle' - I say this because a UK passport is just something that would be an option to a half caucasian child, the lifestyle bit is not so much the enjoyment/lonliness of being a drifter and a batchelor but the fact that I have more oppertunity to provide here in Thailand than I would do in the Phills.

A Thai gf would have been more deal but things didn't happen that way - a compatible woman with the means to make a living would have been more ideal but things didn't happen that way .

If I could have a child and take care of it myself, stick it in a backpack and show it the world that would be perfect but if I was brave, selfish, nieve or stupid enough to go through with this then I would be doing it more for her than for myself.

The bottom line is that I am not a natural parent type or husband type but I have a strong desire to have a haeir and I hate the thought of growing old without anyone to pass my words of wisdom to.

My father pissed off to the UK when I was 2 years old, I ended up fostered, had my name changed three times and many other complications but I don't resent anyone for it - it's made me who I am, not that who I am is such a great thing.

Come to think of it, had I had a normal and better upbringing I would probably be a very sucessful young man by now instead of the nice but unsettled fuck up that I am.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

And by the way - she wants one badly, I have told her how it is with us and that we can not really be together, but with a kid she'd be ok and at least stay at home.

[Blake7]

Come to think of it, had I had a normal and better upbringing I would probably be a very sucessful young man by now instead of the nice but unsettled fuck up that I am.

Never your fault is it Scampy.

Regards to your thread - you know my situation and I have spoken about this to you before but I will repeat it.

Do not consider having a child with 'Sandra". Firstly you do not really like her and are doing this for the wrong reasons ie to give her something to do because she cant work etc. That is completely the wrong reason to have kids. Secondly you have no intention of looking after it anyway - you make it sound quite appealing being away from your child but in reality you may be hearbroken to be missing out on your child growing up. Thirdly you are in no position to financially like up to your responsibilities.

In actual fact getting rid of Sandra would solve all your problems much more effectively. Having a kid with her will make them 1000 times worse.

[bkkmadness]

^ You are right but you put too much emphasis on the words 'passport' and 'lifestyle' - I say this because a UK passport is just something that would be an option to a half caucasian child, the lifestyle bit is not so much the enjoyment/lonliness of being a drifter and a batchelor but the fact that I have more oppertunity to provide here in Thailand than I would do in the Phills.

So you want to have a nice single bachelor life in Thailand, whilst covering the option of having a kid before it's too late by knocking up some girl in the Philly's and popping over there twice a year. Not much concern for the kid, or the mother, but as long as you are happy it doesn't matter does it Scamp.

A Thai gf would have been more deal but things didn't happen that way - a compatible woman with the means to make a living would have been more ideal but things didn't happen that way .

Why doesn't Sandra have a means to make a living?

The bottom line is that I am not a natural parent type or husband type but I have a strong desire to have a haeir and I hate the thought of growing old without anyone to pass my words of wisdom to.

The bottom line is you want to have your cake and eat it and will make stupid excuses to justify your actions. Excuses which you then try to get validated on the internet.

[Blake7]

^ quite right bkk madness

[The Gentleman Scamp]

So you want to have a nice single bachelor life in Thailand, whilst covering the option of having a kid before it's too late by knocking up some girl in the Philly's and popping over there twice a year.

I suppose that's about the size of it, yes.

Not much concern for the kid, or the mother

Sufficient concern.

Why doesn't Sandra have a means to make a living?

She lacks confidence, qualifications and social skills - I have tried to help with all three - these things take time, she needs help and support, I am the wrong guy for her but I'm all she has and will try what I can - even if at my own cost.

The bottom line is you want to have your cake and eat it

Yes! ...But that's me, I'm not a rapist or the butcher of Kingston Upon Thames.

Never your fault is it Scampy.

It's not about fault it's about there being a reason for the way we are, all of us.

In actual fact getting rid of Sandra would solve all your problems much more effectively. Having a kid with her will make them 1000 times worse.

I know, but I would demolish her by doing so and I do care... I also know that she must help herself before anyone else can.

[Blake7]

In actual fact getting rid of Sandra would solve all your problems much more effectively. Having a kid with her will make them 1000 times worse.

I know, but I would demolish her by doing so and I do care... I also know that she must help herself before anyone else can.

In the short term she may be upset (not sure why) but it the long term it would be for the best. She will get over it the same as people all over the world have gotten over since the beginnings of time.

[bkkmadness]

Not much concern for the kid, or the mother

Sufficient concern.

Not sufficient concern, just excuses to make you feel better. Your main concern with this hypothetical family is yourself. That's not the way it should be.

She lacks confidence, qualifications and social skills - I have tried to help with all three - these things take time, she needs help and support, I am the wrong guy for her but I'm all she has and will try what I can - even if at my own cost.

You mean she's a lazy cow and convinced you their are other reasons why she can't work and you have fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Plenty of people in this world lack confidence, qualifications and social skills but if they can wake up every morning and go to work they earn their living.

If she can't even manage to get a job, not sure the burden of being a single mother will help. Saying that, a nice little cash cow for her.

[Blake7]

[quote=bkkmadness;469902]

Saying that, a nice little cash cow for her.

Perhaps you should hire PWC to do an audit of Scampy's finances and earning potential before you say that. The inheritance will soon be whittled away and then what?