Thread: Kim Jong-un ... on a wing and a prayer

Originally Posted by Cujo

How can they say that when they haven't even met yet?

The discussions between the United States and North Korea are ongoing and have moved more quickly than expected," the White House said in a statement.

The meeting between Trump and Kim is just for show the important 'discussions' have been taking place between the offsiders and positions have laid on the table. The US now knows their demands are not going to be met, Kim will not give up his nukes and any talk of disarmament will not be entered into till after a peace agreement is signed between the north and south.

This allows them both to go into the 'historic meeting' knowing exactly the stance of the other and that whatever they say to each other is unlikely to change things. They can then smile talk pleasantly and at the end shake hands as if they have actually done something. Unless Trump throws a wobbly as per his recent attack on the Canadian PM.

^ Yes, it's all hammered out by underlings. This is why Trump boasted that he'd know if the meeting will go well within a few minutes of the meeting commencing, and why he's already re-scheduled his trip home to be earlier.
But he has to be seen to be the great deal maker or deal refuser.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Where do you get this stuff from, Nationalist socialist workers party, nothing to do with Fascism,

As a form of government National socialism, was the most effective from of government the world has ever seen, Germany went from broke to the most powerful nation on earth.

If Hitler had settled for that, without taking on the rest of the world in war, the EU would have come about without a shot fired.

The new National socialist Europe is being born, said on here years ago, all this PC crap, immigration and the problems it brings, was to get the populations to get off their ass.

Yeah right... And the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic right.

As democratic as the bought and paid for "voters who were elected/were advised/had their votes adjusted by their party machine, and "chose", the Kennedy, the Bush, the Clinton and possibly Trump, ameristani royal families. as POTUSE.

But maybe your blinkers will be removed one day.

Originally Posted by OhOh

As democratic as the bought and paid for "voters who were elected/were advised/had their votes adjusted by their party machine, and "chose", the Kennedy, the Bush, the Clinton and possibly Trump, ameristani royal families. as POTUSE.

But maybe your blinkers will be removed one day.

Give it fucking rest will you you one track pony.

Here is a rundown on what went on.

Donald Trump, Kim Jong-un hold high-stakes nuclear summit in Singapore

About the only independent comment, the rest from a US point of view:

While we wait for more to come from the meeting, Stan Grant has written a brief analysis of what's happening.

We are missing a big part of this North Korea story, with the emphasis on denuclearisation or the relationship between Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un, there is not enough talk about reunification of the two Koreas.

This is what is driving Kim Jong-un, the divide between north and south is not just a physical border it is a scar on the Korean soul.

Since taking power Kim Jong-un has spoken consistently about reunification, reuniting the Korean family and finally ending the Korean War.

His weapons program has been about defence, deterrence but also significantly about leverage: how to win a seat at the table.

He has achieved that, this meeting one-on-one with an American president is something that his father Kim Jong-il sought and failed to deliver.

Years, there are issues of sanctions, economic development, but above all this is about the survival of the Kim regime in a reunited Korean Peninsula.

Remember when Kim met South Korea's president Moon Jae-in? The communique they released had reunification as the first priority: not nuclear weapons, not security guarantees, not relations with America but reunification.

As it read: South and North Korea affirmed the principle of determining the destiny of the Koreans nation on their own accord.

That is what Kim Jong-un wants: when we talk about making history this is what Kim Jong-un means.

Another quote from that piece :

"The question is can he actually make a deal that will stick? Because history shows that North Korea has made deals before — notably with the Clinton administration — and then cheated on that deal, continuing a covert nuclear program"

No mention of the deals the US has broken or scrapped one of the latest being the Iran nuke deal that all other parties say is working well so can Kim trust the US to abide by any agreement reached?

So what do each want from this?

Stan Grants view is that Kim wants reunification and going by the talks with Moon that would be correct, but he wants to do it while keeping his nuke deterrent.

Is this possible? Well a two country solution on the same island is working in other parts of the world and the Korean Peninsula is for all intensive purposes an island even if attached to China and Russia so a two country solution each with its own political system and a shared culture and language should be possible if agreed to by the north and south. But there are sticking points, legal and procedural along with the USA which will want to keep its influence (control) over the south.

If an agreement can be reached on a peace treaty then there are many things that follow, not the least of which is nukes and other weapons.

Two countries living side by side in peace, harmony and trade do not need large numbers of either offensive or defensive weapons nor large armies so getting rid of nukes should be part of an incremental and mutual demilitarization of both countries carried out over time with international observers to maintain a balance of power at all times. This should be a no-brainer as large armies and expensive weapons are a huge handbrake on a countries ability to move forward economically.

And Trump what does he want; well to get rid of those pesky nukes and to get recognised as the one who brokered any deals....Then comes the Peace Prize.

Awesome deal for Kim and Trump,

well done

Here is another one.

Trump says as summit ends that North Korea to denuclearise 'very, very quickly'

But there could just be a small misunderstanding somewhere for Trump talks about nukes while Kim talks peace:

U.S. President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un signed a "comprehensive" document following a historic summit aimed at the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula.
There were no immediate details on the contents of the document but Trump said he expected the denuclearisation process to start "very, very quickly".

Kim stood silently alongside, but the North Korean leader had earlier described their meeting as "a good prelude to peace".

Kim also sounded positive about the prospects of peace.

"We overcame all kinds of scepticism and speculations about this summit and I believe that this is good for the peace," he said. "I believe this is a good prelude for peace."

This all was rounded off by the usual US demands and threats.

Pompeo said the summit should set the framework for "the hard work that will follow", insisting that North Korea had to move toward complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearisation.


North Korea, however, has shown little appetite for surrendering nuclear weapons it considers vital to the survival of Kim's dynastic rule.


Sanctions on North Korea would remain in place until that happened, Pompeo said on Monday. "If diplomacy does not move in the right direction ... those measures will increase."

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

Awesome appearance of a deal for Kim and Trump

...ftfy...

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

Awesome deal for Kim and Trump

Where's the beef?

...^exactly...

Originally Posted by lom

Where's the beef?

Exactamundo!

Originally Posted by lom

Where's the beef?

well, they signed a blank page document, that's a fucking achievement

now they can go back to their country and fill out whatever they want on that blank page,

if that's not an awesome deal, then what is ?

From South Korea, note no mention of nukes:

Seoul - South Korean President Moon Jae-in on Tuesday hailed the outcome of the summit between President Trump and the North's leader Kim Jong Un as a "historic event" that ended the last Cold War conflict.

"I offer my heartfelt congratulations and welcome the success of the historic North Korea-United States summit", Moon said in a statement.


"The June 12 Sentosa Agreement will be recorded as a historic event that has helped break down the last remaining Cold War legacy on Earth," he said.


Moon has made great efforts playing the role of mediator to bring the Cold War foes back to dialogue.

He praised Trump and Kim for their "courage and determination" not to settle for "that outdated and familiar reality but to take a daring step towards change".


He lionised Trump for achieving "a feat that no one else has ever delivered", adding Kim would also be remembered as "a leader who made a historic moment by taking the first bold step toward the world".


"Building upon the agreement reached today, we will take a new path going forward.


"Leaving dark days of war and conflict behind, we will write a new chapter of peace and cooperation. We will be there together with North Korea along the way", he said.


Moon however cautioned that this was "just a beginning and there may be many difficulties ahead".
"But we will never go back to the past again and never give up on this bold journey.

History is a record of people who take action and rise to a challenge," he added.//AFP

Singapore agreement will end Cold War, South Korea president says

Is it just me, or is Dennis Rodman simply simple and/or demented?

Some here are better but have they had an ameristani exceptional education.

He's no rocket scientist, ohoh. But we knew that.

We may not know the details, but Trump's achieved more than his predecessors even if it does turn out to be another NOKO scam. Biggest danger for now are the exploding heads.

some interesting analysis from the week:

The transformation of Kim Jong Un

The transformation of Kim Jong Un

Whether or not these agreements will hold remains to be seen. But another pertinent process to observe in the wake of this meeting is the loosening of Kim's shadow self, and the unleashing onto the world of the political leader he wishes to be. Kim wants to transform into someone different, and he may be young enough to actually do it.

Kim, unlike his father or his grandfather, is now recognized by the world as someone other than who he was before. Call it the great undoing, or the unwrapping of decades of conditioning predicated almost entirely on preserving the territorial integrity of his regime and guaranteeing the survival of his person. This conditioning turned a boy into a dictator and kept him hermetically sealed away from the world.

But now, Kim has gotten a taste of what it's like to act on the world stage — of, say, appreciating the unprompted squeals from tourists in Singapore, who greeted him on a midnight run — and he likes it. He wants more of it. Long constrained by threat of invasion and treated as an outlaw, his perceived cooperation with Trump is the first step in a path to new degrees of freedom.

So, we will have official statements, and promises to cooperate, and steps forward and back, and grand bragging, and probably some venting of frustrations. Of course, whatever the two leaders said in private may condition their individual understanding of a shared goal.

But make no mistake: There is an evolution underway. Whenever Kim is in a room he does not control, when he interacts with a foreign leader who does not fear him, when he goes somewhere and sees things he's never seen, when he decides how to communicate with his own people, and with his allies and adversaries, we should see his actions as part of a grand unfolding. He will be making the case that he should be part of the world.

There will be no giving up the nukes until after a peace plan is signed and ratified then it will be done mutually with the south also divesting itself of the weapons it that has been sold to defend against an enemy.

The reason Trump (the Pentagon) is so keen on getting rid of the nukes is that as long as Kim has them it removes the possibility of using "The military option".

In spite of all the talk and (western) media hype about how big a threat to the world NK is Kim has never threatened anything except to retaliate if attacked.

Kim has said on several occasions he will give up (destroy) the nukes the US takes this to mean he will do it now and dont seem to be able to understand he will only give them up when he feels safe from attack.

Statements like the recent ones by Pompeo telling him that if he doesnt do what we (the US) want quickly we will put new sanctions in place against him only serve to make Kim more sure keeping the nukes is the right thing to do.

The best thing the US can do to hasten the destruction of the nukes is to, to use one of their expressions, Butt out, remove all their bases and troops from the south and let Kim and Moon thrash out a mutually advantageous peace treaty.

Originally Posted by jabir

Trump's achieved more than his predecessors

...if empty showboating is the standard, I agree...