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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    After the US brought them to their knees and set them up with a new govt and rebuilt the country. Your memory's getting sketchy again
    Today, Japan is one of the US's closest allies. Why would you make a comment about my memory? Of course the USA rebuilt Japan. The USA gave - Europe (nearly $140 billion in today's dollars). The largest recipient of Marshall Plan money was the United Kingdom (receiving about 26% of the total) in addition the Anglo-American Loan Agreement was a post World War II loan made to the United Kingdom by the United States on 15 July 1946 loaned the UK 57 billion (in today's) dollars. The loan was made primarily to support British colonial overseas expenditure in the immediate post-war years. Additionally, Britain's lend-lease balance was paid off. Lend-lease items retained were sold to Britain at the knockdown price of about 10 cents on the dollar

    Churchill had agreed to end all the British colonial stuff at the beginning of the war (Atlantic Charter) but he lied and wanted to retain the colonies. His reticence led to the disgraceful behavior of the Brits in Vietnam by re arming the French Colonial forces who promptly began slaughtering Vietnamese civilians in a return to colonialism.

    Atlantic Charter


    1. no territorial gains were to be sought by the United States or the United Kingdom;
    2. territorial adjustments must be in accord with the wishes of the peoples concerned;
    3. all people had a right to self determination.

    Gandhi 1942 wrote to President Roosevelt: "I venture to think that the Allied declaration that the Allies are fighting to make the world safe for the freedom of the individual and for democracy sounds hollow so long as India and for that matter Africa are exploited by Great Britain.
    Last edited by mark45y; 07-03-2018 at 09:37 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headworx View Post
    Some reverse Colonialism of a sort ramping up in Sth Africa right now, which will be the final nail in the coffin and the useless cvnts won't be able to feed themselves in no time (see Zimbabwe for a similar road-map to turn a productive nation into a total basket-case). I expect Bono and Geldorf will do some live-aide concerts to sort it all out though

    South Africa‘s parliament has passed a motion that could lead to the seizure of land from white farmers without paying them compensation.

    Passed by an overwhelming majority of 241 votes to 83 votes against, the proposal to amend Section 25 of the constitution would allow expropriation of land without any financial recompense. It was put forward by the radical left Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) party, whose leader Julius Malema told the country's parliament: “We must ensure that we restore the dignity of our people without compensating the criminals who stole our land....


    South Africa votes through motion to seize land from white farmers without compensation | The Independent
    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...others might refer to the motion as reparations...
    And yet others might refer to it as economic suicide.
    Just what the world needs. Another economic basket case like Zimbabwe. After redistribution of farmland in Zimbabwe the inflation rate went from an already high 17% in 1990, as a result of a government without an economic clue, to the abandonment of their own currency in 2015, to U.S. dollars at an exchange rate of 1 USD = 35,000,000,000,000,000,000 Zimbabwe dollars.
    The South African Rand, since the end of white rule, has gone from around parity in the early 80s to around 11.8 rand to the U.S. dollar currently. Unfortunately land distribution will only accelerate white flight from south africa and add to their economic malaise.

  3. #153
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Cow View Post
    Unfortunately land distribution will only accelerate white flight from south africa and add to their economic malaise.
    ...and only whites can save SA from ending up like Zimbabwe, bwana?...

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...and only whites can save SA from ending up like Zimbabwe, bwana?...
    I believe only the black middle class can do that...

  5. #155
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    But here is a history lesson for discussion...

    In the 3000 years since the end of the Stone Age, the indigenous people of Africa could not manage to create an infrastructure, could not mine or produce export, could, in fact not succeed in building anything higher than one storey and could not write down anything as reference for future generations, because they could not manage to master the art of writing. In fact, when the first Europeans arrived on 6 April 1652 it was 1974 years after Ptolemy I built the magnificent library of Alexandria – and in Southern Africa the indigenous people still could do no more than a few rock paintings and a clay pot with patterns on it.
    Today, this development, this contribution of the descendants of Europe has become a threat to the Black South African. He cannot compare. He has no contribution that can remotely compare to what the white man created and therefore he has to fall back on what primal instinct tells him to do: Destroy that which is a threat to you!
    It is against this background that the white South African is demonised as a slaver and murderer who stole land. Let us put this in perspective:
    In the first place: The Europeans who came with Van Riebeeck had no intention to stay at the Cape. We can clearly determine this from the repeated application for transfer to Batavia or Amsterdam made by almost every Company servant. The few men who decided to make this their homeland, did so because they came to love the land.
    They wanted to develop and grow here. And in the written evidence, left us by the men who did not intend to stay and therefore had no reason to lie, it is written down over and over again that the Europeans settled on uninhabited land. They exchanged land for cattle and money and traded with the nomadic indigenous people.
    The Company decided to import slaves.
    I emphasize import, because no indigenous person in this country was ever put into slavery! In actual fact, the slaves who were brought in from Madagascar and Batavia and Ceylon and East Africa were the ancestors of an entirely new group of people: the Coloured nation of South Africa who adopted the customs and culture of the European.
    Ever wondered why they did not adopt the custom of Africa?
    Because they were not exposed to it, that is why! Nobody at the Cape ever set eyes on a black person for 130 years before the first Trekboere met the Xhosa in the Valleys of the Amatola around 1770! These slaves also added to the bloodline of the European settlers, as did the French Hugenots of 1688 and the British Settlers of 1820. The White South African was a new nation, born in Africa. This nation called its language, Afrikaans, after Africa. This nation called itself after Africa – Afrikaners.
    On the first of December 1834 slavery was abolished in the Cape Colony. This is two years before the start of the Great Trek. The white man in South Africa knew nothing of the existence of the Zulu, the Tswana, the Sotho, the Venda...and he was at war with the Xhosa. It is chronologically impossible that indigenous people could be held in slavery, if the so-called slave masters did not even know of their existence before the abolition of slavery.
    Let us look at the "great" Shaka Zulu and the Zulu nation. Remember that the Europeans landed in South Africa in 1652. Shaka kaSenzaghakohona was born around 1787. He managed to unite, through force and murder and rampage a number of small tribes into the Zulu nation around 1819. Before that year, there WAS no Zulu people. A question of mathematics: The Zulu nation came into existence only 167 years after the arrival of Van Riebeeck. What logic can possibly argue that the Europeans took anything away from the Zulu-people?
    So when did the black man establish himself in South Africa and how? The answer lies in the Mfecane: Mfecane (Zulu: [m̩fɛˈkǀaːne],[note 1] crushing), also known by the Sesotho name Difaqane (scattering, forced dispersal or forced migration[1]) or Lifaqane, was a period of widespread chaos and warfare among indigenous ethnic communities in southern Africa during the period between 1815 and about 1840.
    As King Shaka created the militaristic Zulu Kingdom in the territory between the Tugela River and Pongola River, his forces caused a wave of warfare and disruption to sweep to other peoples. This was the prelude of the Mfecane, which spread from there. The movement of peoples caused many tribes to try to dominate those in new territories, leading to widespread warfare; consolidation of other groups, such as the Matabele, the Mfengu and the Makololo; and the creation of states such as the modern Lesotho.
    Mfecane is used primarily to refer to the period when Mzilikazi, a king of the Matabele, dominated the Transvaal. During his reign, roughly from 1826 to 1836, he ordered widespread killings and devastation to remove all opposition. He reorganised the territory to establish the new Ndebele order. The death toll has never been satisfactorily determined, but the whole region became nearly depopulated. Normal estimates for the death toll range from 1 million to 2 million.
    The black man established himself in this barren land now known as South Africa a full 174 years AFTER the white man. How dare you then call me a settler when you are nothing more? If I don't belong here, certainly neither do you.
    Land stolen from the black man? No. The land occupied by the Boer-people was land that nobody lived on, for the pure and simple reason that the original people of South Africa were massacred and wiped out in a racist genocide by the ancestors of the current black population of South Africa. The very same thing that is now repeated with the white man. The white man has a full and legal and historical claim to his part of this country, including land. And the black man who disputes that is welcome to bring evidence of the contrary. Remember, popular liberal myth, propagandistic expressions and loud shouting and burning and looting to hide your own incapability is not evidence. It is barbarism.
    The popular myth of "the end of colonialism" is a lie also. Colonialism in South Africa ended on 31 May 1961 when the country became a Republic. White minority rule was not colonialism, because the white South African belongs here – you cannot colonise your own country.
    The entire uproar about white oppression and white guilt and white debt is based, exactly like the concept of the rainbow nation and its Africa-democracy, on one big lie. In Afrikaans, a language of Africa, we say: However swiftly the lie might travel, truth will catch up one day.
    Black South Africa might as well realise that the time of the lie is running out. Your stereotyping of the white man and apartheid as the cause of everything, cannot hold much longer.
    You cannot hide rotting meat under gift wrap for eternity.
    Some time in the very near future you will have to own up and explain how you could hold a small minority of oppressed people responsible for the disaster that you have made of a country which has the potential of being a place of safety, a welcome and hospitable home, to all its children whether they be black, white, coloured on Indian.
    The black man holds the key to the final destruction of what is left, or the final realisation that we have no other choice but to peacefully co-exist. The black South African can no longer avoid admitting that the destruction of the white South African necessarily means the destruction of everything and everyone left on the southern tip of Africa.

  6. #156
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    Meh...

  7. #157
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ...^editor needed...reduce the post to 2-3 pithy sentences and supply the link...please...

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ce the post to 2-3 pithy sentences and supply the link...please...
    It's from 'White's are Awesome Magazine'

    Black South African: Stop demonising the white man in South Africa

    Black South African: Stop the demonising of the white man in South Africa and own up to your responsibility towards the country!

    Knowing oneself and admitting to your own shortcomings is in all probability the most challenging aspect of being human. To those of us with the inherent incapability of doing so, it is so much easier to distance ourselves from our shortcomings and blame it upon something or someone which operates out of our own sphere of influence.

    https://southafricatoday.net/south-a...-south-africa/

  9. #159
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ...^model post: thanks!...(South Africans please note)

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle junior View Post
    It's from 'White's are Awesome Magazine'
    Here's an entry from the 'Jews are Awesome Magazine'...or...where did Mex's big lie he spoke of originate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mex
    The entire uproar about white oppression and white guilt and white debt is based, exactly like the concept of the rainbow nation and its Africa-democracy, on one big lie.
    Nelson Mandela Was a Revolutionary—and These Jews Made Common Cause With Him
    The Jews Who Made Common Cause With Mandela ? Tablet Magazine

    winnie, nelsen and joe

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...^editor needed...reduce the post to 2-3 pithy sentences and supply the link...please...
    Perhaps...?

    The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the ocean searching for a suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for life. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain anymore, so it eats it.


    Or if you haven't just scroll down.


    Certainly less tiresome.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...and only whites can save SA from ending up like Zimbabwe, bwana?...
    No, I didn't sat that but feel free to let me know which sub saharan African government with a history of fiscal rectitude anti corruption and democratic principles that you would recomend that will be able to guide them. Must be plenty to choose from as there are 46 countries in that category.

  13. #163
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ...^let African "nations" fumble along within their imaginative colonial borders: Europeans have done enough damage without further imposing notions and evaluations of betterment...

  14. #164
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    I'm sure a quick trip to Africa by your learned self will be able to fix the border issues in a jiff.

  15. #165
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    ...^I'm flattered. Unfortunately, my extended stay in Ethiopia and a research grant in West Africa failed to produce any lasting betterment of post-colonial conditions. Africa was (and is) well and truly penetrated by white (and, increasingly Chinese) exploiters...

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...^I'm flattered. Unfortunately, my extended stay in Ethiopia and a research grant in West Africa failed to produce any lasting betterment of post-colonial conditions. Africa was (and is) well and truly penetrated by white (and, increasingly Chinese) exploiters...
    And what made you so different ?

  17. #167
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    Very simple. Read any Niall Fergusson book on Empire for the answer why British was best. Also kudos to Britain for the almost completely peaceful dismantling of their empire compared to other European powers. Heres's a starter: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/166434.Empire

    Also Google many articles (some scholarly) in the folowing vein:
    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-for...in-or-Portugal

    By the way, by the 1930s Empire was certainly a huge economic and military drain on the UK. It was a necessity in terms of global power rather than a money maker. This is beyond question. India of course was still a huge resource, but in return the economic power that is India today is built not only on resources but on centuries of British infrastructure; legal, governmental and hard assets (hospitals/railways, etc.), they had a head start on everything over many of their regional competitors.
    Last edited by Speedhump; 10-03-2018 at 06:12 PM. Reason: grammar

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedhump View Post
    Read any Niall Fergusson book on Empire for the answer why British was best.
    Lol...

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedhump View Post
    Very simple. Read any Niall Fergusson book on Empire for the answer why British was best. Also kudos to Britain for the almost completely peaceful dismantling of their empire compared to other European powers. Heres's a starter: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/166434.Empire

    Also Google many articles (some scholarly) in the folowing vein:
    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-for...in-or-Portugal

    By the way, by the 1930s Empire was certainly a huge economic and military drain on the UK. It was a necessity in terms of global power rather than a money maker. This is beyond question. India of course was still a huge resource, but in return the economic power that is India today is built not only on resources but on centuries of British infrastructure; legal, governmental and hard assets (hospitals/railways, etc.), they had a head start on everything over many of their regional competitors.

    Propping up the continued illusion.
    Convention that the dumbed-down grasp.
    Pathetic.

  20. #170
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    Idiots who only believe what they want and type one line bullshit replies will never grasp cold facts. Indians themselves agree that Britain was good for India. What a bunch of dipshits on this forum, always just looking for a fight. I see that almost every fu*king thread is full of this crap. Pages and pages of sad but angry little keyboard warriors. That's what's pathetic! I'm done.

    PS - people aren't dumbed down you dick, facts are. Don't talk to me on an English speaking forum if you don't even know the language.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedhump View Post
    Indians themselves agree that Britain was good for India.
    One former colony out of how many? How's Iraq, Pakistan, Bangaldesh, Zimbabwe, Afghanistan and Burma doing?

    What do the Aussie aborigines, Maoris,Am Indians think of their former colonizers?

    How's the ME faring since the Brits pulled out?

    Across the board the British empire was one of the most brutal in history, including Japan and Spain.

  22. #172
    Thailand Expat tomcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
    And what made you so different ?
    ...genes, I imagine...

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedhump View Post
    they had a head start on everything over many of their regional competitors.
    Unfortunately the "everything" left behind was ill equipped for a stand-alone Asian country, or was that by design?

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
    And what made you so different ?
    Hobbies include uphill gardening

  25. #175
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    something not mentioned here is the British mainly used in-direct rule in the colonies, so perhaps the elite of these countries are to blame for a lot of the wrongs under the colonialism.

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