Dow Jones plunges 1,068 points, Wall Street bloodbath intensifies

**buriramboy** · 09-02-2018, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by tomcat

...^a good point: corrections are frequently buying points at which to enter (or re-enter) the stock market...downward momentum can be an investment opportunity...

For an example you have some utility companies in the UK which are basically monopolies and with their guaranteed cash flow were generally regarded as about as safe as you can get, ignoring Corbyns threat to nationalise them should he ever get into No.10 Downing Street. Circa 4% divis increasing every year plus gradual rising share price and people were happy as it's all you want from a 'safe' share, now due to the pull back the divis on some of them are coming in at an eye watering 6% on current sp. People aren't going to stop using water and electricity.

**Grampa** · 09-02-2018, 06:47 AM

Recently closed.

Here are the futures (as of now) for tomorrow:

Pre-Market Trading

See After-Hours Trading
Data as of 5:15pm ET
Thursday’s Close:

Dow-1,032.89

23,860.46
-4.15%
Nasdaq-274.825

6,777.16
-3.90%
S&P-100.66

2,581.00
-3.75%

U.S. Stock Futures

S&P	-79.25 / -2.97%
Level	2,589.00
Fair Value	2,579.12
Difference	9.88
Data as of 6:34pm ET
Nasdaq	-240.25 / -3.66%
Level	6,315.50
Fair Value	6,308.95
Difference	6.55
Data as of 6:34pm ET
Dow	-807.00 / -3.26%
Level	23,928.00
Data as of 6:34pm ET

Premarket Stock Trading - CNNMoney

**buriramboy** · 09-02-2018, 06:51 AM

IG futures showing the Dow slightly up, 0.4% as i type.

https://www.ig.com/uk/indices/market...es/wall-street

**YourDaddy** · 09-02-2018, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Grampa

Recently closed.

Here are the futures (as of now) for tomorrow:

Pre-Market Trading

See After-Hours Trading
Data as of 5:15pm ET
Thursday’s Close:

Dow-1,032.89

23,860.46
-4.15%
Nasdaq-274.825

6,777.16
-3.90%
S&P-100.66

2,581.00
-3.75%

U.S. Stock Futures

S&P	-79.25 / -2.97%
Level	2,589.00
Fair Value	2,579.12
Difference	9.88
Data as of 6:34pm ET
Nasdaq	-240.25 / -3.66%
Level	6,315.50
Fair Value	6,308.95
Difference	6.55
Data as of 6:34pm ET
Dow	-807.00 / -3.26%
Level	23,928.00
Data as of 6:34pm ET

Premarket Stock Trading - CNNMoney

Futures mean shit. Expect a 500++ gains tomorrow.

**buriramboy** · 09-02-2018, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by YourDaddy

Futures mean shit. Expect a 500++ gains tomorrow.

You might be right dow futures +210 as i type.

**AntRobertson** · 09-02-2018, 08:13 AM

Every time I open my portfolio app it has taken another dive.

Kinda sucks.

**Grampa** · 09-02-2018, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by YourDaddy

Futures mean shit. Expect a 500++ gains tomorrow.

You have been warned.

**buriramboy** · 09-02-2018, 10:24 AM

Dow futures up 220 as i type, FTSE futures been all over the shop through the night currently down 32 points.

https://www.ig.com/uk/indices/markets-indices/ftse-100

Asian markets taking a hammering.

**YourDaddy** · 09-02-2018, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Grampa

You have been warned.

I don't give a shit Gramps. I'm not invested in stocks.

**David48atTD** · 09-02-2018, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by YourDaddy

I don't give a shit Gramps. I'm not invested in stocks.

I'm not taking the piss ... just curious.

I learn from others.

What are you invested in?

**YourDaddy** · 09-02-2018, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by David48atTD

I'm not taking the piss ... just curious.

I learn from others.

What are you invested in?

Nothing.

I flip for livin'

**AntRobertson** · 09-02-2018, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by YourDaddy

I flip for livin'

Wassat? Property?

**David48atTD** · 09-02-2018, 11:30 AM

^^ Humm ... not exactly sure what you mean by that ... but thanks.

---

This is only for the true believers ... it's long in the word, but good in it's analysis.

True believers ... read on

Wall Street wipe-out more a 1987 stock market crash than a global financial crisis

Is this a re-run of 2008, when the global economy shuddered to a halt?
Not really.
What about the parallels with 1987, when a bloated Wall Street tanked and took global markets along with it?
Now, that's a better comparison.

Ask almost any "expert", and you'll be delivered the message to which US President Donald Trump is desperately clinging.
The US economy is in reasonable shape and is finally emerging from its post-financial crisis torpor while prospects for the
global economy are the best they've been in more than a decade.

Having taken credit for the wild ride up, this week Mr Trump declared Wall Street had got it wrong — that it was ignoring all the good economic news.

That's fake analysis.

What he and many others fail to realise is markets — and particularly Wall Street — disconnected from economic fundamentals years ago.

And this week's sudden collapse, which overnight turned into a full-blown correction (a drop of more than 10 per cent from its peak)
has been driven by the sudden realisation American stocks are wildly overvalued.
Just how overvalued?
One measure, known as the price-earnings (PE) ratio says it all.

It works like this:
Let's say a company earns $1 in profit.
Over the long term, investors would say the company was worth $15. That's a PE ratio of 15.

Wall Street, before last week's spiral began, was trading on an average of 26 — way above the historical average.
Australia, by comparison, was at the more sober 16 times earnings.

How did we get here?

The US boom initially was driven by an unprecedented flood of cash — almost $US4 trillion — unleashed by the US Federal Reserve
over three separate programs since 2008 to kickstart the American economy.
With rates slashed to zero, the only place to park spare cash was the stock market.
More recently, it was fuelled by Mr Trump's hugely stimulative plans to slash taxes and pour trillions into a big-spending infrastructure
program — including his much-touted wall.

In the past week, two things that have been bleedingly obvious for more than a year have suddenly dawned on traders.
The first is the US Federal Reserve not only hiking interest rates, last October it also began the process of gradually clawing back those
trillions it injected into the system through its money-printing program.

That takes cash out, which also puts upward pressure on market rates.

Add to that the spectre of a rapid rise in inflation, which surfaced last Friday night with a sudden, but long-hoped-for, jump in wages.
While economists have been praying for higher wages, stock traders convinced themselves inflation would not return — that they could
have strong economic growth and perpetually low interest rates.

They wanted the cake, and they wanted to eat it too.

If inflation already is stirring, the fear is a big-spending, tax-cutting fiscal program that blows out Government debt will turn a bushfire into
an out-of-control inferno and the Fed will have no option but to fight it with much higher interest rates.

That's where the 1987 comparison is apt.

The global economy was in reasonable shape.
But markets had been on a tear for years, and with already-high inflation looking to get out of control, central banks and governments were
leaning against it with higher interest rates.
While interest rates were much higher back then, the conditions and the trend lines were the same — markets were out of control and
interest rates were being hiked to curb inflation.

For the Australian Market ... what's next?

This time around, Australia hasn't bought into the Wall Street madness.
Before this rout began last week, New York stocks had risen about 88 per cent from their 2007 peak — with more than 40 per cent piled
on since the Trump election.

Our market has never even come close to breaching its 2007 peak of just above 6,700 points.
Our economy weathered the financial crisis and its aftermath, courtesy of a China-led resources boom.

And our interest rates, while at record lows, stayed well above the crisis levels of other major developed economies.
Logically, if we didn't ride the artificial market boom, we should be relatively safe from its collapse.
Unfortunately, logic and financial markets usually tend to avoid one another.

As we've seen from the past week, a serious Wall Street downturn immediately sends shockwaves across the globe — primarily because
it's the world's biggest economy.
So far, our market losses have been limited to around 4 per cent. But should the rout continue, there is no doubt we will be caught in the crossfire.

Back in 2015, when the US Federal Reserve announced it would slowly ease back on stimulus, Wall Street chucked its famous "taper tantrum"
and the Australian market shed 12 per cent.

**Looper** · 09-02-2018, 11:43 AM

What have the merkins got to grumble about?

The Dow Jones is still up more than 10,000 points or 70% since its pre GFC peak of 14,000

The ASX has still never, at any time in the 10 years since the GFC, managed to climb back to its 2007 peak of 6800. We are still 20% down on 2007.

And it was supposed to be US economic mismanagement that precipitated the GFC. You would think their trading and investment market would suffer the worst.

**buriramboy** · 09-02-2018, 11:43 AM

As long as invested in fundamentally sound companies and taking a long term view nothing to worry about from where i'm sitting. Yes some companies values have shot up so quickly you'd struggle to justify their valuations but still plenty of bargains out there especially after recent falls. You'd be lucky to get much more than 1% in a savings account, plenty of 5% and upwards divi payers around if looking for income.

**tomcat** · 09-02-2018, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by David48atTD

What are you invested in?

Originally Posted by YourDaddy

I flip for livin'

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Wassat?

...he works in a circus...

**cyrille** · 09-02-2018, 12:01 PM

He certainly produces as much shite as one.

**YourDaddy** · 09-02-2018, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by cyrille

He certainly produces as much shite as one.

Funny thing.... I got stomach flu

**buriramboy** · 09-02-2018, 12:27 PM

Another US shutdown so no doubt another down day on the markets. Although Dow futures haven't reacted much still about 200 points up.

**buriramboy** · 09-02-2018, 12:45 PM

Seems the markets like the idea of a US shutdown, futures all rising. Dow up 250, sure some logic somewhere.

**SKkin** · 09-02-2018, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by David48atTD

markets — and particularly Wall Street — disconnected from economic fundamentals and reality years ago.

fixed

That's what taxpayer bailouts, QE and tapers etc. do for "markets."

Capitalism...

**Stumpy** · 09-02-2018, 05:19 PM

Investing or risk taking as I call it now is quite a personal thing. I pushed my portfolio to a cash position about 4 months ago as the data showed everything is so over inflated. The US economy isn't really booming IMHO as stocks might indicate(and so we are clear Trump has had ZERO to do with it good or bad).

With this market correction there are some opportunities to buy but I think it is still over inflated. Dow should be around 22,000

**YourDaddy** · 09-02-2018, 07:49 PM

Gramps might be correct about today.

**Grampa** · 09-02-2018, 09:58 PM

You have been warned.

**Dragonfly** · 09-02-2018, 10:54 PM

Started to short the SP 500,

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