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  1. #26
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    [quote=bendix;377696]
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post
    I agree with Maggie Thatcher when she said there is no such thing as society.
    Having said that, I'm vehemently anti-death penalty.
    And there's me thinking that your posts where based on intelligent observation and experience, ah well we're all human after all Bendix.

    As for the sentencing of this sick fucker, if he wants to blame society and the moral standards set by it, he's probably right. He knew already that he'd get food a lodgings for the rest of his life and protection in a unit with people of the same persuasion, what a terrible society we live in for letting that guy think that even if he got caught he would in effect not be punished. Shoot the fucker, short, sharp and violent and don't give me BS like 'but what about miscarriages of justice?' This fucker was caught and tried and found guilty, beyond reasonable doubt, why waste time and money keeping him safe for the rest of his life? Use a .38 to the back of his head. When one of those sick fuckers is thinking, mmmm... should I? Should'nt I? What's going to put him off, protective custody or a quick violent death?
    Of course it's never gonna happen is it? We are so civilised the rights of sex offenders are as important as their victims, we have to play by the rules right?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon View Post
    Leave him with the general prison pop. They'll take care of him.
    Agreed

  3. #28
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    ^^ Unlikely for mainstream cons to get to him because he'll be segregated on death row, and while it is argued that killing him is easier and cheaper than keeping him away from humans for the rest of his life, far from.

    Before he's killed, and he's more likely to die of natural causes within the next 12-13 year Florida death row average stay, he will enjoy a series of appeals at the highest levels, which cost far more than it does to care for him for the rest of his life.

    Cannot think of a suitable punishment, but it sure isn't food and board with optional education and hobbies thrown in.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by keda View Post
    ^^ Unlikely for mainstream cons to get to him because he'll be segregated on death row, and while it is argued that killing him is easier and cheaper than keeping him away from humans for the rest of his life, far from.

    Before he's killed, and he's more likely to die of natural causes within the next 12-13 year Florida death row average stay, he will enjoy a series of appeals at the highest levels, which cost far more than it does to care for him for the rest of his life.

    Cannot think of a suitable punishment, but it sure isn't food and board with optional education and hobbies thrown in.

    Your views on retribution and revenge are very similar to those advocated by the Taleban and Sharia Law. Isn't that kind of ironic, given your other favourite subject?

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by keda View Post
    Cannot think of a suitable punishment, but it sure isn't food and board with optional education and hobbies thrown in.
    Just throwing him in with the general poulation might be a suitable punishment, taking the guilt factor out of the death penalty option.

  6. #31
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    [quote=Robski;378535]
    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post
    I agree with Maggie Thatcher when she said there is no such thing as society.
    Having said that, I'm vehemently anti-death penalty.
    And there's me thinking that your posts where based on intelligent observation and experience, ah well we're all human after all Bendix.
    Some of us are more human than others Robski.

    I'm not sure which side you're taking. Your post is confused. On the one hand you say it's ok to blame society; on the other you say he's a sick bastard and should be punished.

    You can't have it both ways.

    My view - like Maggie's - is that the concept of individual responsibility overrides this nefarious notion of 'society'. No matter how screwed up society is, there are basic concepts of right and wrong to abide by. You can't blame education, lack of parental control, the media etc for everything.

    Sometimes you have to look at things more simply. Is an action fundamentally right or wrong?

    This guy is obviously evil. His actions were directed by himself, not by his past.

    Having said that (again), I'm vehemently opposed to the death penalty for reasons far too intelligent to discuss on this forum ;-)

    Prison seems a soft option, I agree. But it is the only option in a civilised world.

  7. #32
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    duplicated below
    Last edited by keda; 28-08-2007 at 09:27 AM. Reason: duplicated post

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by keda
    I suppose your way is to devote valuable resources in the fantasy hope of rehabilitation before he's executed or escapes true justice by dying of natural causes
    Does not compute... so execution is ok but dying in prison is not? So the logical conclusion then is that execution only serves as revenge, because it sure as heck doesn't serve as a deterrent or we wouldn't even be discussing this.

    Execution as revenge... sounds quite savage.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by keda View Post
    ^^ Unlikely for mainstream cons to get to him because he'll be segregated on death row, and while it is argued that killing him is easier and cheaper than keeping him away from humans for the rest of his life, far from.

    Before he's killed, and he's more likely to die of natural causes within the next 12-13 year Florida death row average stay, he will enjoy a series of appeals at the highest levels, which cost far more than it does to care for him for the rest of his life.

    Cannot think of a suitable punishment, but it sure isn't food and board with optional education and hobbies thrown in.

    Your views on retribution and revenge are very similar to those advocated by the Taleban and Sharia Law. Isn't that kind of ironic, given your other favourite subject?
    Sorry to disappoint you but I've never advocated running over a child's arm with a truck, for stealing a pita because he was hungry, or stoning a raped woman to death for not having four witnesses testify in her behalf, as your cited nutters claim to be the will of the most compassionate and merciful.

    As to your second attempt at making a point, that depends what you refer to as my 'favourite subject'. I suppose your way is to devote valuable resources in the fantasy hope of rehabilitation before he's executed or cheats the executioner by dying of natural causes.

  10. #35
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    [quote=bendix;378628]
    Quote Originally Posted by Robski View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post
    I agree with Maggie Thatcher when she said there is no such thing as society.
    Having said that, I'm vehemently anti-death penalty.
    And there's me thinking that your posts where based on intelligent observation and experience, ah well we're all human after all Bendix.
    Some of us are more human than others Robski.

    I'm not sure which side you're taking. Your post is confused. On the one hand you say it's ok to blame society; on the other you say he's a sick bastard and should be punished.

    You can't have it both ways.

    My view - like Maggie's - is that the concept of individual responsibility overrides this nefarious notion of 'society'. No matter how screwed up society is, there are basic concepts of right and wrong to abide by. You can't blame education, lack of parental control, the media etc for everything.

    Sometimes you have to look at things more simply. Is an action fundamentally right or wrong?

    This guy is obviously evil. His actions were directed by himself, not by his past.

    Having said that (again), I'm vehemently opposed to the death penalty for reasons far too intelligent to discuss on this forum ;-)

    Prison seems a soft option, I agree. But it is the only option in a civilised world.
    Good post, though I disagree that prison is the only option in a 'civilised' society. Why do you not share your intelligent arguments against the death penalty? You may be surprised to learn others have also survived eighth grade.

    As to the neverending conflict between good and evil, it seems they are doomed to live side by side, though where they interact then evil has the upper hand by virtue of it's greater range of options.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post

    Having said that (again), I'm vehemently opposed to the death penalty for reasons far too intelligent to discuss on this forum ;-)

    Prison seems a soft option, I agree. But it is the only option in a civilised world.
    I don't agree that the death penalty is some kind of last resort for the anti-intellectualist

    And those who say "hey 35 years in Dartmoor prison never did anyone any harm"

    ....are wrong also.

    Both 1) a life behind bars 2) execution are tough-love punishments.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by keda View Post

    As to your second attempt at making a point, that depends what you refer to as my 'favourite subject'. I suppose your way is to devote valuable resources in the fantasy hope of rehabilitation before he's executed or cheats the executioner by dying of natural causes.

    The arguments against capital punishment are far too compelling to be dismissed by anyone with a brain.

    Devote valuable resources? It's widely accepted, even by pro-execution lobbyists, that it costs more to execute a man in the US than it does to imprison for the term of his natural. Appeals (which I would hope you would support) etc are incredibly expensive for the state.

    Morally? No matter what evil atrocities a person commits, the state killing him or her negates that moral highground. No person has the right to take another's life; to do so for any reason (legal or non-legal) assumes a higher authority which, frankly, we don't have.

    Conclusivity of evidence? There are plenty of documented cases where it's been proven beyond reasonable doubt that innocent people have been executed. It takes only one innocent to be executed to justify stopping them all, or is that innocent's life worthless?

    Deterrent? Yeah, right. I think any sane person needs only to look at the stats to see that's nonsense. Just compare crime rates in two SIMILAR countries which have it and dont have it.

    I wish I had an alternative. There is much evil in the world. Look at terry57 for example. But, unfortunately, capital punishment is not the answer.

  13. #38
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    ^ he is not evil, Bendix. That is too complicated for him.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by keda View Post
    [Sorry to disappoint you but I've never advocated running over a child's arm with a truck, for stealing a pita because he was hungry, or stoning a raped woman to death for not having four witnesses testify in her behalf, as your cited nutters claim to be the will of the most compassionate and merciful.

    I suppose you're right. But judging a religion based on the more extreme sects within it is a dangerous precedent. It wasn't that long ago that the enlightened pilgrim fathers were burning witches in Salem. Sadly, there was no Fox News or tabloid press around to report that.

    Even more recently, extremist catholic and protestant groups were shooting each other's kneecaps out in the streets of Belfast.

    Just a few years ago - and probably still - extremist Catholics were murdering pro-choice clinic administrators.

    All done in the name of the Merciful Father, of course, and all - thankfully - abhorred by the mainstream of their respective credo, as the Taliban and Sharia Law extremists are by mainstream islam.

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    Life without possibility of parole is a very hard punishment, nobody should think its a doddle. Particularly if its in some US penal wing in solitary confinement. In many senses worse than lethal injection.

    However, if there was a referendum on the noose in the UK, the hangman would be back tomorrow. But we don't have that kind of democracy.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post

    However, if there was a referendum on the noose in the UK, the hangman would be back tomorrow. But we don't have that kind of democracy.

    yes, because the vast majority of people are knee-jerk idiots incapable of thinking issues through.

    Democracy? Democracy, my arse. The right to vote SHOULD come with the responsibility to rationalise issues; sadly it doesnt. People are all so focused on their rights, that they forget the accompanying responsibilities.

    Democracy has failed. Those who think they have it, don't. Those who want it and then get it, find it's not all it's cracked up to be.

  17. #42
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    [quote=bendix;378628]
    Quote Originally Posted by Robski View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post
    I agree with Maggie Thatcher when she said there is no such thing as society.
    Having said that, I'm vehemently anti-death penalty.
    And there's me thinking that your posts where based on intelligent observation and experience, ah well we're all human after all Bendix.
    Some of us are more human than others Robski.

    I'm not sure which side you're taking. Your post is confused. On the one hand you say it's ok to blame society; on the other you say he's a sick bastard and should be punished.

    You can't have it both ways.

    My view - like Maggie's - is that the concept of individual responsibility overrides this nefarious notion of 'society'. No matter how screwed up society is, there are basic concepts of right and wrong to abide by. You can't blame education, lack of parental control, the media etc for everything.

    Sometimes you have to look at things more simply. Is an action fundamentally right or wrong?

    This guy is obviously evil. His actions were directed by himself, not by his past.

    Having said that (again), I'm vehemently opposed to the death penalty for reasons far too intelligent to discuss on this forum ;-)

    Prison seems a soft option, I agree. But it is the only option in a civilised world.
    Well I was being kind of sarcastic, (never a good medium on the internet) the defendant using his poor treatment in society as an excuse, so I was trying to say maybe society is sending out the wrong message and as well as getting treated like shit by society he should also have had it drummed into him that abduction, rape etc are wrong and will be dealt with severely, so although he and others may contemplate such heinious actions they would be deterred by the consequences,

    As for Thatchers comment, that is in a completely different context and was used as an excuse to release private enterprise and government from their responsibilites to the country and it's citizens, in effect a message to the society whose existence she was denying that the laws of society and virtuous behaviour were there to be broken, we live now with the legacy of that breakdown of responsibility. I am neither left nor right on that point, but society is the most fundamental precept in all our lives and it's effects cannot be dismissed so easily.
    Last edited by Robski; 28-08-2007 at 05:28 PM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post

    However, if there was a referendum on the noose in the UK, the hangman would be back tomorrow. But we don't have that kind of democracy.

    yes, because the vast majority of people are knee-jerk idiots incapable of thinking issues through.

    Democracy? Democracy, my arse. The right to vote SHOULD come with the responsibility to rationalise issues; sadly it doesnt. People are all so focused on their rights, that they forget the accompanying responsibilities.

    Democracy has failed. Those who think they have it, don't. Those who want it and then get it, find it's not all it's cracked up to be.

    I think on this more open forum it is apparant that you have your opinion and that is that, you have decided what you think and you have stopped thinking. You are trying to say that those that differ from your point of view should raise their level of thinking and they would see that you are right, very hypocritical and rather delusional IMHO which kind of makes me sceptical that you do have a valid opinion after all. I would try and except your argument if you weren't so keen on generalising about other people and broadening the focus of the main point to compare it to unrelated situations.

    "the vast majority of people are knee jerk idiots incapable of thinking issues through" your statement says more about you than the people whose opinions you try and dismiss with it, there may be some truth there, but do you not think it possible that you could include yourself in that vast majority?
    Last edited by Robski; 28-08-2007 at 05:29 PM.

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    Of course I include myself. What's your point exactly?

    I take my online views as seriously as I take this - or any other - forum.
    Last edited by bendix; 28-08-2007 at 06:40 PM.

  20. #45
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    I think I've made my point.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    abhorred by the mainstream of their respective credo, as the Taliban and Sharia Law extremists are by mainstream islam.
    In the UK if you were to offer any muslim Sharia Law over British justice, they would bite your hand off.

    So-called 'moderate' muslims are very quiet when Tube trains are being blown into next week & airports are being ram-raided by suicide bombers, but they are the first to go up in arms if anybody insults Big Mo'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shehiredahitman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    abhorred by the mainstream of their respective credo, as the Taliban and Sharia Law extremists are by mainstream islam.
    In the UK if you were to offer any muslim Sharia Law over British justice, they would bite your hand off.

    So-called 'moderate' muslims are very quiet when Tube trains are being blown into next week & airports are being ram-raided by suicide bombers, but they are the first to go up in arms if anybody insults Big Mo'.
    Yes, I'm sure you're right, in your own bizarre Sun reading world. Meanwhile, the Muslim Council of Britain was extremely vocal in its condemnation of the attacks, and any kind of hate crime. It has anti-terrorism as a cornerstone of its strategy.

    But, hey, why let facts get in the way of ill-informed hatred?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shehiredahitman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    abhorred by the mainstream of their respective credo, as the Taliban and Sharia Law extremists are by mainstream islam.
    In the UK if you were to offer any muslim Sharia Law over British justice, they would bite your hand off.

    So-called 'moderate' muslims are very quiet when Tube trains are being blown into next week & airports are being ram-raided by suicide bombers, but they are the first to go up in arms if anybody insults Big Mo'.
    Yes, I'm sure you're right, in your own bizarre Sun reading world. Meanwhile, the Muslim Council of Britain was extremely vocal in its condemnation of the attacks, and any kind of hate crime. It has anti-terrorism as a cornerstone of its strategy.

    But, hey, why let facts get in the way of ill-informed hatred?
    Here we go - another one who has all the answers but none of the facts.

    Muslims are seekng an Islamic state & see this country as ripe for conversion. Sharia law will be part of the legal system in this country, in time, due to pressure from this Muslim council who are openly condemning the attacks for fear of any reprisals & nothing else. Behind the closed doors of some of them mosques they are the ones hating, not me.

    I would love to see this so-called muslim anti-terrorism you talk about. Giving a public lecture on not blowing yourself up while the BBC broadcasts it is not a cornerstone, it is propoganda designed to appease people like you.

    Have you not seen first-hand the hatred these people have for us, our way of life & our beliefs? Before you start spouting about what was happening over five-hundred years ago, let me remind you that this is today. Check your calender.

    Before you label me 'racist' (the argument of a man who has no proper argument left) tell me what racist is in your mind & I will answer you properly. Until then, stick your poxy accusations where the sun don't shine & hit me with the facts, not your bullshit.

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    Could you please point out the facts in this rather hysteric post? I see a lot of paranoi, suspicion and head-spinning conjecture. If you check out the MCB website you will see their STATED stand on terrorism (which I thought we were talking about). Of course, you obviously have contacts in the organisation because you are telling me their REAL agenda.

    How can i compete, when I'm trying to have an intellectual discussion with someone using platitudes spun from a skinhead discussion in an East End pub?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bendix View Post
    Could you please point out the facts in this rather hysteric post? I see a lot of paranoi, suspicion and head-spinning conjecture. If you check out the MCB website you will see their STATED stand on terrorism (which I thought we were talking about). Of course, you obviously have contacts in the organisation because you are telling me their REAL agenda.

    How can i compete, when I'm trying to have an intellectual discussion with someone using platitudes spun from a skinhead discussion in an East End pub?
    I am not as intellegent as you. We'll agree on that.

    Now your best comeback has been voided - unless you're going to pull it out over & over - do you have a proper argument left? That website is the same as one of Blackgang's cut & paste blog jobs (no offence, BG) & has all the credibility of Al Jazeera television.

    As for posting examples of what's going on, I don't need to as it is only you who doesn't seem have an angle on what is really happening amongst the so-called moderate muslims - they are the biggest wife-beaters on the planet.

    I wish Isaan Alex were here right now. He woud shoot you down in a single post but I don't have the wits to do so.

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