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  1. #1
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    Thai nationalism

    Thais are very proud of their independance and having never been colonised. However, they are actually colonisers, invaders, and banishers of independence themselves. I guess these things aren't talked about so much though.

    COLONISERS
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_people
    The earliest mention of the Thai, as a nation in south China call NAN-JOA, comes from Chinese records dating back to the sixth century BCE. These early Thai emanated out of the Yunnan region and dispersed into the general area of what is today Thailand. These Thai peoples arrived in various waves and displaced the earlier native Mon and Khmer populations as they settled the region with a large group settling in Thailand during the Sung period of China roughly around 960 CE. The related Lao people split off from the early Tai-Kadai peoples and moved into Southeast Asia, mainly Laos, while another kindred people, the Shan, made their way into Myanmar
    Inspired by the then Hindu-based Khmer Empire (Cambodia), the Ayutthaya Empire's continued conquests led to more Thai settlements as the Khmer Empire weakened after their defeat at Angkor in 1444.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mon_people
    Up until the 14th century, outposts of Mon culture continued to spread very far east, including modern Thailand and Isan plateau cities such as Lampang and Khon Kaen. As late as the 14th and 15th centuries, it is believed that the Mon were the ethnic majority in this vast region
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_people
    The Khmer came with earlier waves following in the wake of the Malays.[citation needed] Most scholars believe they came at least 3,000 years ago, much earlier than Tai people who now inhabit many parts of what was originally Austroasiatic territory.
    The rise of the Tai kingdoms of Sukhothai (1238) and Ayuthaya (1350) resulted in almost ceaseless wars with the Cambodians and led to the destruction of Angkor in 1431. They are said to have carried off 90,000 prisoners, many of whom were likely dancers and musicians
    Due to continued Siamese and Vietnamese aggression Cambodia appealed to France for protection in 1863 and became a French protectorate in 1864.
    INVADERS
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angkor
    End of the Angkorian Period
    The end of the Angkorian period is generally set at 1431 A.D., the year Angkor was sacked and looted by Thai invaders
    War with the Thai

    It is widely believed that the abandonment of Angkor occurred as a result of the Thai invasions. Ongoing wars with the Thai were already sapping the strength of Angkor at the time of Zhou Daguan toward the end of the 13th century. In his memoirs, Zhou reported that the country had been completely devastated by such a war, in which the entire population had been obligated to participate.[15] After the sack of Angkor in 1431, many persons, texts and institutions migrated to the Thai metropolis of Ayutthaya in the west, while others departed for the new center of Cambodian society at Phnom Penh in the south.
    BANISHERS OF INDEPENDENCE
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaification
    Thaification is the process by which groups at the fringe of the Thai state become (or are made) more similar to the Central Thai heartland. To an extent this is a natural result of these groups being part of a modern state in which Central Thais occupy a dominant geographical, economic and cultural position, but it has also been actively encouraged by the Thai government.
    The main subjects of Thaification have been ethnic groups on the edges of the Thai state, geographically and culturally: the Lao of Isan, the hill tribes of the north and west, and the Muslim minority of the south. There has also been a Thaification of the large immigrant Chinese and Indian populations in Bangkok. However, Thaification has been, to a considerable extent a byproduct of the nationalist policies consistently followed by the Thai state over the 20th century. The promotion of Thai nationalism in the country as a whole took the form of reinforcing the Thai identity in the heartlands, while creating a Thai identity on the fringes.

  2. #2
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    Off TEFL and onto Anti-Thai.
    Predictable really.

  3. #3
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    If you don't like my threads, why open this one?
    Do you dispute the contents of the OP?
    Is it wrong to discuss the issues in the OP?
    Are you a Thaiophile bigot?

  4. #4
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    So, what's special about the Thais?
    The Saxons displaced the Celts, the Arabs displaced the original North Africans, the Ottoman Turks displaced the Greeks, the Arayans displaced the Dravidians, the Japanese displace the Ainu and on and on and on.
    The whole of history is about the movement of peoples.
    Why single out the Thais? Because your feelings on Thailand and Thais are well known.
    Please don't say you are trying to educate us. This thread will turn into your usual anti-Thai tirade. Just wait and see.
    Last edited by Sir Burr; 24-08-2007 at 08:11 PM. Reason: spelling
    Phuket - Veni Vidi Veni

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeg
    Do you dispute the contents of the OP? Is it wrong to discuss the issues in the OP?
    I don't quite see what it is you're getting at? As Si Burr alludes to, if there's a nation or people that hasn't conquered another or taken over areas at one time or another I've yet to hear about them.

    And I fail to see how a Thai sense of nationalisim in not having been colonised is incongrous with that in any event.

  6. #6
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    may i suggest a comparison of Thai history as taught

    and

    the truth

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntRobertson View Post
    I don't quite see what it is you're getting at? As Si Burr alludes to, if there's a nation or people that hasn't conquered another or taken over areas at one time or another I've yet to hear about them.

    And I fail to see how a Thai sense of nationalisim in not having been colonised is incongrous with that in any event.
    So you don't find it odd and ironic that a nation that makes a big thing of peace, never being colonised, and independence was actually built on colonisation, invasion, and is now trying to strip ethnic minorities living within the borders of their independence?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Burr View Post
    This thread will turn into your usual anti-Thai tirade. Just wait and see.
    Debate is healthy. Just not for Thaiophiles like yourself who want to be happy simpletons in ignorant bliss.

  9. #9
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    Waiting for Friscofrankie's holier-than-thou put-downs now........

  10. #10
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeg
    So you don't find it odd and ironic that a nation that makes a big thing of peace, never being colonised, and independence was actually built on colonisation, invasion, and is now trying to strip ethnic minorities living within the borders of their independence?
    In terms of World history and even current events no, I don't find it the slightest bit odd. And why would I? For one example you have the US talking of "freedom" and "democracy" yet imprisoning people without charge nor trial.

    If anything it would be highly unusual if they didn't.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Burr View Post
    This thread will turn into your usual anti-Thai tirade. Just wait and see.
    Debate is healthy. Just not for Thaiophiles like yourself who want to be happy simpletons in ignorant bliss.
    Didn't take long, did it Smeg?

  12. #12
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    Oh and Smeg, make that happy, contented simpleton next time please.
    Last edited by Sir Burr; 25-08-2007 at 05:12 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Burr View Post
    Oh and Smeg, make that happy, rich, contented simpleton next time please.
    To be honest I couldn't give a toss about who or what you are, but carry on talking yourself up anyway if you feel it is somehow relevant.

    Why single out the Thais?
    I thought this was a Thailand discussion forum. Whoops, my mistake.

  14. #14
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    You really are a boring cvnt Smeg. You only have two subjects you ever discuss. You are like a broken fucking record.
    The shame of it is that you are obviously an intelligent and eloquent guy.
    There are lots of other subjects you could discuss, but, you never do.
    You're fixated on Bankok Phil, Kenkannif, Thailand and Thaiophiles.
    Do you deny this?

  15. #15
    Thailand Expat AntRobertson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Burr
    Thaiophiles
    What exactly is a "Thaiophile" anyways?

  16. #16
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    So you don't find it odd and ironic that a nation that makes a big thing of peace, never being colonised, and independence was actually built on colonisation, invasion, and is now trying to strip ethnic minorities living within the borders of their independence?
    This is neither unusual or ironic seems to be going on all over the world, has been and most likely will be long after we are gone. While the short history lesson is not news nor is it a secret it does have value for those that may not have taken (or had) the time to read up on it.

    The information presented is hardly suppressed. Go to any book store You're sure to find even more interesting details. You can even d\find information on how the current dynasty took power if you like. Interesting reading but hardly more so that the history of any region or nation. Rather tame in comparison to many other stories.

    Sme time you come up with some pretty decent, or at least off-the-wall shit. This one? Reaching.
    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty -- T. Jefferson


  17. #17
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    Anyone who prefers living in Thailand over their own country.
    It's a word Smeg sorta made up. Anglophile? Francophile?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Burr View Post
    You really are a boring cvnt Smeg. You only have two subjects you ever discuss. You are like a broken fucking record.
    The shame of it is that you are obviously an intelligent and eloquent guy.
    There are lots of other subjects you could discuss, but, you never do.
    You're fixated on Bankok Phil, Kenkannif, Thailand and Thaiophiles.
    Do you deny this?
    So, I spend the occasional hour talking about expat teachers and Thailand on Thailand discussion forums. Seems perfectly on-topic and normal to me.

    You'll find that these threads get far more hits and replies than say my Bangkrajao thread, and that is the whole point isn't it, to build a busy discussion?

    Anyway, like I said, if you think my threads are boring, best use your time to go read some others or start some yourself. I won't be offended, honest!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by friscofrankie View Post
    So you don't find it odd and ironic that a nation that makes a big thing of peace, never being colonised, and independence was actually built on colonisation, invasion, and is now trying to strip ethnic minorities living within the borders of their independence?
    This is neither unusual or ironic seems to be going on all over the world, has been and most likely will be long after we are gone. While the short history lesson is not news nor is it a secret it does have value for those that may not have taken (or had) the time to read up on it.

    The information presented is hardly suppressed. Go to any book store You're sure to find even more interesting details. You can even d\find information on how the current dynasty took power if you like. Interesting reading but hardly more so that the history of any region or nation. Rather tame in comparison to many other stories.

    Sme time you come up with some pretty decent, or at least off-the-wall shit. This one? Reaching.
    I guess I'm the only one who sees the double-standards of the of the country I'm in. Never mind, I'll discuss it with myself

  20. #20
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    It's late. I'm going to bed.

  21. #21
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    I have to say, I thought Wyatt's book on Thai history was rather good

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    I have to say, I thought Wyatt's book on Thai history was rather good
    Do you have a local book location or an executive summary for us?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Burr
    Anyone who prefers living in Thailand over their own country. It's a word Smeg sorta made up. Anglophile? Francophile?
    Right, cheers. Figured as much just thought it might have some extra added meaning I was missing.

  24. #24
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    ^^do I look like a book-store owner? I gave you a link

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeg
    I guess I'm the only one who sees the double-standards of the of the country I'm in.
    You come off as if the above short synopsis is an indictment of Thailand. (Practically) any country on the globe could so be indicted. Without being such an antiphile you could have opened a discussion of Thai history; there are some good things as well as some bad things there to discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeg
    I'll discuss it with myself
    but really the threads are about you they always end up being so. As an above poster pointed out you are not without intelligence and have obviously figured this out, therein lies the true purpose of opening posts of this ilk. Liked your one on the lung of Bangkok BTW.

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