Thread: Beware.

Originally Posted by wasabi

It's got a much better new International airpor

All something most Thais will never experience.

Thais live day to day and do not give a tinkers cuss about tomorrow.

I hope this changes soon but it will take change from the government to build confidence and with the promise to support the people.

Its not up to us farang as it has been in the past.

Let Thais help the Thais with real support and maybe us farangs can live safely and without threat.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Originally Posted by sabang

Who of you would say Thailand has got better in the last decade?

Ask the Thais on the street mate.

You might receive different responses from city to country mouse, as all situations are not the same - even when envisioning that all affairs and life is comparable with your beloved Pattaya.

Get real.

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Get real.

With all due respects how can you or I get real here mate.

Unless you as a non Thai has special priviligies we are both are fucked.

If you have some special advice for me I am always welcome.

Hi there Loy Toy,

Sorry to have missed you on my last trip, 15 day Chiang Rai, 5 Pattaya.

Chiang Rai is similar to 30 years ago, when I first saw it. But there is an unoccupied Farang house in most villages, and like winning the lotto, most single gals dream.

Caught up with a few in Pattaya, including our Cornish friend - I hoped he would sort himself out, but to many distractions for most in Pattaya, were we all expect the worst. Also Jen, who my visit here soon with his Mrs.


Two good things happened in Pattaya to me personally.

A cleaner returned money left in a pocket of my laundry. She was well rewarded, and very happy

Great cheap service from a motorcycle taxi couple - took my bike at 11.00pm to repair a puncture on 2nd road, returned at 2.00am Soi 7, hard to give them a good tip.

2 x 120 Baht Airport Bus, 650 5 days motorcycle, Roon at Shophouse Cosy Beach 400 Baht (great Value) good 4 night with honest staff.

Best street food in Pattaya in Cosy Beach, a pleasant experience all around, also thanks to my good lady friend from Chiang Rai.

I admit I am wary sometimes, but good things can still happen.

Best Regards, Pom In Perth

If you have some special advice for me I am always welcome.

Much as it pains me to support Jeff, he was simply making the very obvious (and very obviously true) statement that things will vary from place to place. You have made a home in what (on what I admit was my one and only visit) seemed to me like the most awful town I have ever seen in my life. It is hardly surprising that a place built on prostitution attracts some terrible people, Thai or otherwise, but it's ridiculous to extrapolate from a couple of incidents in one shitty town to an entire nation so presumably Jeff's advice is just 'don't over-generalise'.

Originally Posted by sabang

Well here is a question for the pseudo experts, if we can find one.
Who of you would say Thailand has got better in the last decade?

"pseudo experts"? Bit loaded that to be honest. I have been here and working for 16 years. Does that still put me in the "pseudo expert" category? Or can it be assumed that I might have some idea of what I am talking about?

Does that still put me in the "pseudo expert" category? Or can it be assumed that I might have some idea of what I am talking about?

I guess that depends on whether or not your opinion agrees with his; in this context, I think we can take 'pseudo' to mean 'wrong'.

Originally Posted by Passing Through

Does that still put me in the "pseudo expert" category? Or can it be assumed that I might have some idea of what I am talking about?

I guess that depends on whether or not your opinion agrees with his;

Very likely.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by sabang

Well here is a question for the pseudo experts, if we can find one.
Who of you would say Thailand has got better in the last decade?

"pseudo experts"? Bit loaded that to be honest. I have been here and working for 16 years. Does that still put me in the "pseudo expert" category? Or can it be assumed that I might have some idea of what I am talking about?

No mate, it contains a lot of idea that you would know what you are talking about. So to repeat the question:-

Who of you would say Thailand has got better in the last decade?

I think you know what I think.

Originally Posted by sabang

Who of you would say Thailand has got better in the last decade?

Me. Infrastructure has improved much in the last decade up North. It is amazing. As far as comfort in my own life, big improvement in that there is more variety in goods and services than in the past. Much, much, more convenient here.

I feel little insecurity about my future here presently. There are no ill feelings of the locals towards me that I can detect. That's not to say there aren't people out there who don't like foreigners, but every country has people like that.

I have been coming to Thailand since 1988. Thailand was like it is now politically back then. Just a big circle. The economy has been up and down several times along with the rise and fall of theft and suicides.

There is but one unmentionable thing which concerns me about the future of this country and when that happens, I reckon we will all know within just three or four days how it will pan out.

Who of you would say Thailand has got better in the last decade?

At the risk of being labelled a pseudo expert (and I only moved to Thailand in 2000 so no doubt lack the experience and knowledge to be anything else), it's a question which doesn't really make any sense. Better in what way? This thread is about the threat of violence to white foreigners. Has that got worse in the last decade? I have no reason to think so.

Originally Posted by Passing Through

At the risk of being labelled a pseudo expert (and I only moved to Thailand in 2000 so no doubt lack the experience and knowledge to be anything else), it's a question which doesn't really make any sense. Better in what way? This thread is about the threat of violence to white foreigners. Has that got worse in the last decade? I have no reason to think so.

Good post mate and thanks for your input.

I certainly am no expert with regard to Thailand but am just as vulnerable as any other person who lives here.

Secondly the night my two mates were attacked at two different locations another 5 attacks took place involving Thais by the same gang.

One thing for sure the drug problem has grown over the last 10 years and from what I have seen and been advised by others crime has risen also across the nation.

When I suggested that one should ask the people on the street I could also suggest they ask the mothers here about their concern for their children here these days.

One thing for sure the drug problem has grown over the last 10 years and from what I have seen and been advised by others crime has risen also across the nation

The perception of crime rates and what they actually are can and often do run in opposite directions. It's of course possible that crime rates really are rising, though round me the drug problem appears to be a fraction of what it was prior to 2003, but I've got no particular reason for thinking that this is so. I had a quick look online and found these figures. They're for violent crimes only and the last 2 years are missing but they hardly indicate a worsening trend.

no figures for grievous bodily harm or manslaughter.

the figures for murder are specifically labelled intentional murder, which i assume means homicide.

foreigners are rarely actually targetted and murdered, but are sometimes victims of violent assault resulting in death or injury.

(compare the thai figure of nearly 5000 homicides excluding manslaughter in thailand in 2013 with the 600 homicides including manslaughter for 2015 in the uk, a country with a roughly similar population.)

the perception amongst thais is that the country has become increasingly violent, with a police force that is barely fit for purpose and increaeingly soft sentencing for crimes of violence.

I am extremely happy with the way this thread has developed and your input Passing Through is very interesting.

Very possibly the problem is mainly a Pattaya thing not a nation wide problem.

This area where I live, although not too far from the shithole area where crime is rampant, formally was very quite and extremely safe.

I expect that the criminals that reek havoc on the Bright-side of Pattaya have now realized there are easier pickings on the Darkside.

Anyway good discussion and I sincerely hope that people make themselves more aware of their surroundings and when out and about.

I sincerely hope that people make themselves more aware of their surroundings and when out and about.

Yes, always good advice.

sounds like it, like zombies, it seems that the shit has spread to the safe part of Pattaya

Originally Posted by misskit

Originally Posted by sabang

Who of you would say Thailand has got better in the last decade?

Me. Infrastructure has improved much in the last decade up North. It is amazing. As far as comfort in my own life, big improvement in that there is more variety in goods and services than in the past. Much, much, more convenient here.

...

As another 'Northerner' I confirm this.
There is much more affluence about, even if I suspect most of it based on loans.
15 years ago a village in the middle of nowhere, accessible on a potty semi-asphalted dirtroad with a public telephonw booth, 2 mobile owners and 3 cars, the place is almost recognisable now. People have done up their houses, most everybody owns a mobile & a scooter, if not a pickup as well, proper roads, lit at night, solar-powered warning lights at the main junction etc... the area certainly had more charm before, at least for a visitor tired of 'civilisation'.

Crime rates & drug use appear to have stayed the same, but we lock the doors and gate when we go out these days after a few of incidences over the years. Better accessibility & affluence also means temptation & easier pickings.

Originally Posted by misskit

Infrastructure has improved much in the last decade up North.

Agreed, at least at 'national road' level- the road out from Ubon is now a good highway, four lane all the way. At local, 'village road' (ie dirt track) level however, very different story around here- it's much worse. The worse it's been in a decade, although the real decline has been in the last couple of years. Have they changed village funding?

Originally Posted by misskit

There are no ill feelings of the locals towards me that I can detect.

Neither here, but I live in a village. No changes there. Reports from Pattaya suggest otherwise however- for example in the last ten years my house has been broken into twice, both this year. Depends where you live I suppose.

Originally Posted by misskit

Thailand was like it is now politically back then.

Here I differ. I've lived here permanently since early 2006, been coming here regularly since 1994. The politics of the 90's were a mess- governments coming and going all the time. 2006 (a decade ago) was the first year an elected government ever completed a full term, and indeed was re-elected by the first ever absolute majority. Then came the military coup, and the merry go round we've had ever since.
I'm afraid I think Thailand has deteriorated in the last decade. There was a real spirit of optimism back then, reflected in things like consumer purchases, new businesses opening, children going on to higher education etc. It didn't happen overnight- in fact the first coup didn't really seem to affect it at all. But it has stalled since then, at least at village level. Optimism has been replaced by fatalism. Probably the saddest thing is, fewer people seem motivated to send their kids to Uni these days- there isn't the money about, and many villagers just don't seem to think it's worth it any more.
Seems to me really, Thailand has regressed to an earlier decade, where the peasant 'knew his place' and stayed there. Thaksin, shyster that he was (or thaksinism) at least gave them hope, illusory though that turned out to be.

Interesting that students in "the west" learned that it wasn't "worth it" to go to university some time ago...

LT for starters, great thread and there's been some really interesting input from people spread around the Kingdom.

It's around 20 years since I moved to Pattaya from the Philippines because among many other issues, that fucking joint was getting WAY too dangerous as a foreigner!. Pattaya was so much safer and I never felt in any danger walking around alone at stupid o'clock in a drunken haze, did so for many many years without a single encounter with the locals. A few problems with other foreigners that were easily sorted out, but the Thai's were never a problem. Just good luck?. Maybe, but I know a lot of people around town and they all seem to live a carefree life too. To be fair, most of them are all old-hands and live comparatively quiet lifestyles these days so they/we aren't as exposed as we were once. But I still know a heap of business owners in Walking St and LK Metro areas that I visit for a few drinks now and then, and don't feel any raised levels of threat. A don't start no shit their won't be no shit sort of situation still exists in the entertainment areas in my opinion...

As for your friends getting knocked of bikes and rolled, I'm sorry to hear that but you would most certainly know that this sort of thing has always happened in Pattaya, the Darkside and the railway track crossings were always the hot-spots and the usual victims were Thai's (specifically girls in the wee hours of the mornings). They've rounded up gangs doing this plenty of times, but again you would know this. Personally, I wouldn't ride a small motorbike around at night anywhere but heavily populated and well lit areas now, or 10-20 years ago.

Has crime increased around Pattaya?. Absolutely.
Have visitor numbers increased by millions in the last 10-20 years?. Absolutely too.
Has the ratio of visitors vs incidents increased, decreased, or stayed about the same?. I don't know.

Keep em peeled

Potatoes, or those dangling bollocks?...

Originally Posted by Passing Through

round me the drug problem appears to be a fraction of what it was prior to 2003, but I've got no particular reason for thinking that this is so.

Yaba consumption is up, isn't it ? This alone would account for the amount and type of crime....it is much more destructive than heroin ever was. It induces rage / violence and psychosis.