Thread: Micromanaging and overtime

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Vote with your feet mate.

This time Hary is spot on, Mei Guanxi



Jeez u can kip in my GH free until u find a better gig ,any employer treating you like 3rd world day Laobour needs the body swerve

Teaching is a 'profession' is it not? And isn't a bit of unpaid overtime par for the course in any profession?

I work for a USA multi-national. Am nominally on a 37.5 hour week, but low- to mid-40s is normal. It's just the way it is.

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Originally Posted by Cujo

The law states the salary must be paid by the tenth of the following month worked.
So August salary must by law be paid by the tenth..

If not he has broken the contract and you can leave without penalty.

BC China used to pay by the 10th, then they changed that to the 20th last year.

The uni actually paid on the 10th of the month I was working - that was sweet, no worrying about them fucking you over.

Here it's the 5th of the following month, but the way they're doing it for the first payment is 5k on the 5th and then it should be the remaining 15k on the 30th of September.

However, they have a convoluted, illogical (Chinese) way of doing things, such that I will only get the 15k, with October's 15k at the end of October (30k). November - 15k end November, 5k 5th December.

Anyway, I spent a year travelling, time to put my head down for a bit, and suck in that beautiful Shanghai air.

You need to remind them that by law the entire salary must be paid by the 10th.
Find out your local labour office and pay them a visit.

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Anyway, I spent a year travelling, time to put my head down for a bit, and suck in that beautiful Shanghai air.

Ah. You've met a girl.......

You need to remind them that by law the entire salary must be paid by the 10th.

Do you have website I can reference that with in my email to the manager?

"Article 50 Wages shall be paid to labourers themselves in the form of currency on a monthly basis. The wages payable to labourers shall not be deducted or delayed without reason."

Labour Law of the People's Republic of China -- china.org.cn

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Anyway, I spent a year travelling, time to put my head down for a bit, and suck in that beautiful Shanghai air.

Ah. You've met a girl.......

Not yet.

Here is a letter I've drafted for the three bosses, one Singaporean, one Pakistani-Singaporean, one local Chinese:

G'day xx, yy, zz

Doing some math (as my accountant mother taught me), and research (as my lawyer uncles taught me) I came up with these figures:

In the month of September there were 20 official working days (22 minus 2 national holidays). I will have worked 18 of the 20 official working days. This equals to 91%. 91% of RMB5k = RMB4545. 91% of RMB15k = RMB13650.

Thus I would clearly think (and having researched China labour laws) that the above salary will be paid. And not working on the fact that I was present for only 23 of 30 days in September, which equals to 77%, which will result in a markedly lower salary.

Please make this clear to the relevant persons (HR/Acccounting?), so that there is no issue re. salary.

Also, I'm less than pleased with the September salary payment being paid in two batches - 5th and 30th of October. That means I receive the second (much larger) payment (Oct 31st) a staggering 54 days after beginning work for HKP. It is not my responsibility to organize 'fapiaos' to the value of RMB15k.

My statement to all at HKP was that my walk-away salary would be RMB20k. The manner in which HKP reaches and pays me that figure by the 5th of each month is not my issue/problem. I need to express to you that as a private contractor working for HKP I expect timely, non-delayed payment. We began negotiations in July - plenty of time has passed to figure out the fapiao/claim situation on your side of things.

I provide a top-tier service to you, and I expect HKP to reciprocate.

Please refer to these sources:

Your China Expat Employee Contract. It Depends.... | China Law Blog
China Employment Contracts -- Ten Things to Consider
Chinese Labour Law and Working Conditions in China (note housing and vacation allowance)

To be honest money is a dirty topic and I don't like talking about it but I'd like to clear the air on these matters so that I can focus 100% on what I'm here to do from 9-6, Monday to Friday: add value and content to the HKP!

Regards
BB

Note to TD readers 'fapiao' refers to official receipts one gets from restaurants, pubs, when renting an apartment. The way I am being paid is 5k officially, 15k in 'claims', whereby the company needs to get hold of 15k in fapiaos.

So, is this too 'in your face'? Pushing too hard? Or being straightforward, frank and honest?

I drafted it yesterday, and haven't sent it yet, as I wanted to sleep on it and get some feedback from you and my uncles - yes I really do have two uncles who are laywers. Nicest guys you could meet, and very useful to have in the family.

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

G'day xx, yy, zz

Doing some math (as my accountant mother taught me), and research (as my lawyer uncles taught me) I came up with these figures:

So, is this too 'in your face'? Pushing too hard? Or being straightforward, frank and honest?

I would settle simply for "unprofessional".

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

G'day xx, yy, zz

Doing some math (as my accountant mother taught me), and research (as my lawyer uncles taught me) I came up with these figures:

So, is this too 'in your face'? Pushing too hard? Or being straightforward, frank and honest?

I would settle simply for "unprofessional".

In what way?

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

G'day xx, yy, zz

Doing some math (as my accountant mother taught me), and research (as my lawyer uncles taught me) I came up with these figures:

So, is this too 'in your face'? Pushing too hard? Or being straightforward, frank and honest?

I would settle simply for "unprofessional".

In what way?

Seriously?

In pretty much every way. "G'day"? You are not writing a note to your mates.

Decide who the letter is intended for - then either address to that person, and cc to the others, or address to that person but pass through the others.

Cut the "my mother taught me" "my uncle taught me" shit. State your problem *clearly*, state your concern *clearly*, show how they are breaching local regulations *clearly*.

Nobody has the time to wade through the sort of crap in your letter. Cut the self promotion - either you are that good, in which case they already know it - or they don't think you are, in which case they will think you are a self-aggrandizing tosser.

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Here is a letter I've drafted for the three bosses, one Singaporean, one Pakistani-Singaporean, one local Chinese:

G'day xx, yy, zz

Doing some math (as my accountant mother taught me), and research (as my lawyer uncles taught me) I came up with these figures:

In the month of September there were 20 official working days (22 minus 2 national holidays). I will have worked 18 of the 20 official working days. This equals to 91%. 91% of RMB5k = RMB4545. 91% of RMB15k = RMB13650.

Thus I would clearly think (and having researched China labour laws) that the above salary will be paid. And not working on the fact that I was present for only 23 of 30 days in September, which equals to 77%, which will result in a markedly lower salary.

Please make this clear to the relevant persons (HR/Acccounting?), so that there is no issue re. salary.

Also, I'm less than pleased with the September salary payment being paid in two batches - 5th and 30th of October. That means I receive the second (much larger) payment (Oct 31st) a staggering 54 days after beginning work for HKP. It is not my responsibility to organize 'fapiaos' to the value of RMB15k.

My statement to all at HKP was that my walk-away salary would be RMB20k. The manner in which HKP reaches and pays me that figure by the 5th of each month is not my issue/problem. I need to express to you that as a private contractor working for HKP I expect timely, non-delayed payment. We began negotiations in July - plenty of time has passed to figure out the fapiao/claim situation on your side of things.

I provide a top-tier service to you, and I expect HKP to reciprocate.

Please refer to these sources:

Your China Expat Employee Contract. It Depends.... | China Law Blog
China Employment Contracts -- Ten Things to Consider
Chinese Labour Law and Working Conditions in China (note housing and vacation allowance)

To be honest money is a dirty topic and I don't like talking about it but I'd like to clear the air on these matters so that I can focus 100% on what I'm here to do from 9-6, Monday to Friday: add value and content to the HKP!

Regards
BB

Note to TD readers 'fapiao' refers to official receipts one gets from restaurants, pubs, when renting an apartment. The way I am being paid is 5k officially, 15k in 'claims', whereby the company needs to get hold of 15k in fapiaos.

So, is this too 'in your face'? Pushing too hard? Or being straightforward, frank and honest?

I drafted it yesterday, and haven't sent it yet, as I wanted to sleep on it and get some feedback from you and my uncles - yes I really do have two uncles who are laywers. Nicest guys you could meet, and very useful to have in the family.

Ah, the old fapiou scam. Don't know where you would come up with 15k in fapious a month but as you say, not your problem, particularly if it wasn't discussed in the beginning.
The 5 k is interesting as the tax threshold is 4,800 so you will be paying tax on 200 only. They can't tax you the other 15 if you claim against fapious but I really don't know where you would come up with that anyway.
Sound like dodgy fuckers either way.
I'd ditch them and find another. There must be hundreds of opportunities in Shanghai.

...one more point - don't make people search for information. If you are doing this in hard copy, print the relevant documents and highlight the relevant sections, and attach to the letter.

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Thanks for that miniscule gem of advice. I had to read through all the other cr..., um, stuff to dig it out. Have a good un, matey.

EDIT: And no, before you reply, don't think about getting into a pissing match with me. Thanks for your feedback. Move on to the next thread.

Christ almighty, sensitive much?
He was just trying to help. And I agree with his points.
Starting a formal business letter to your employers with 'G'day'? And your mother taught you and your uncles taught you....?
Keep it professional.

Christ almighty, sensitive much?
He was just trying to help. And I agree with his points.
Starting a formal business letter to your employers with 'G'day'? And your mother taught you and your uncles taught you....?
Keep it professional.

Not overally. just treating a 'pedantic bastard' pedantically.

The employers encourage informality.

Lost the ma/uncles bit - just cut straight to the chase.

Nice to have 3+ backup jobs I could walk into within 48 hours..

Baas, your initial gripe was micromanaging and non payment of overtime. Neither of these issues is mentioned in your draft letter to management.

If I received your letter in its current form I would want get rid of you as soon as practical.

You are obviously not happy in the post - You are not a tree, you can move on. I suggest you do.

With regard to your

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

And yes I am that good. Proven it to myself,

In my experience people of exceptional talent tend to earn more than U$3000 pcm.

Just my thoughts...

Yep, indeed my mind is not that steady at the moment. Big move to a big city with big stress and a bronchitis bonus have whipped up a feverish mind.

As such open apologies to anyone offering advice I deemed not useful, and whose throat I jumped down.

I went ahead with the letter, after having my PR team (stepdad) reword it.

I received a very positive reply, which is reassuring. If you have any interest in perusing it, let me know.

The TB-like cough is receding, I'm meeting up with a girl for language exchange some evenings, and I've joined a six aside expat football/drinking team, so things are on the up.

I've survived 13 years in greater China - another 6-12 months is manageable.

Cheers and beers.

A travel writer once described one of his impressions of China as being that the whole country had a low-level cough that got constantly passed around (presumably mutating) and around, and around.

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

I'm meeting up with a girl for language exchange some evenings

SURE !

When I was in Taiwan it was so common a hook-up method, we used to call it saliva exchange. I got a couple of cuties that way.

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Seriously?

As serious as.

In pretty much every way. "G'day"? You are not writing a note to your mates.

Cheers for that, matey.

Decide who the letter is intended for - then either address to that person, and cc to the others, or address to that person but pass through the others.

All three bosses.

Cut the "my mother taught me" "my uncle taught me" shit. State your problem *clearly*, state your concern *clearly*, show how they are breaching local regulations *clearly*.

One tiny gem of advice there, amongst the rough (re. family). I have clearly stated the issue.

Nobody has the time to wade through the sort of crap in your letter. Cut the self promotion - either you are that good, in which case they already know it - or they don't think you are, in which case they will think you are a self-aggrandizing tosser.

My pedantic, micromanaging bosses love this kind of talk - that's why I wrote it in this style.

And yes I am that good. Proven it to myself, and previous employers (top uni's, top airlines, top hotel chains), evidenced with their reference letters.

Thanks for that miniscule gem of advice. I had to read through all the other cr..., um, stuff to dig it out. Have a good un, matey.

EDIT: And no, before you reply, don't think about getting into a pissing match with me. Thanks for your feedback. Move on to the next thread.

Jaysus fukkin kerist.

All his points are good and valid. If you think that letter will help your case or work in Asia, or anywhere really. You are fukkin stupid.

^
good for you

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Sorted.

We'll see. Asians have long memories.

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Stupid? Far from it.

But, if you had no intention of accepting any advice, why ask for it ? Was it to receive a big pat on the back about What a macho, no nonsense letter you can write?

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

booting me out the office if I'm deemed not necessary to the meeting.

So, you want to sit in on meetings that don't concern you and complain when asked to leave?

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

I mentioned in a previous post I was taking on a job in Shanghai with a JV, teaching a few hours a week, and creating content.

How does this gel with:

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

The contract calls for 40 hours work/week, 9-6, with an hour at lunch

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Singaporean boy is treating you the same as he would some 10k rmb a month local lad

Why wouldn't he? An employee is an employee . . . is he better because he is white, which is something he obviously loves, being South African

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

And as pointed out above, Singaporeans are anal mofo's - the accent itself it fucking annoying.

And your accent isn't annoying?

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

The bloody Chinese in the office

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

illogical (Chinese) way

Yet you stay in China - how long have you been there?

Originally Posted by bindog

Teaching is a 'profession' is it not? And isn't a bit of unpaid overtime par for the course in any profession?

For the unprofessional it would seem so. 40 hours an dnot a minute more . . . quite special

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

So, is this too 'in your face'? Pushing too hard? Or being straightforward, frank and honest?

Ah, unprofessional again - agreed

Originally Posted by nidhogg

I would settle simply for "unprofessional".

It reads like an angst-ridden teenage girl chucking a tizz . . . 'my mummy', 'my uncle' etc.... How old are you?

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

EDIT: And no, before you reply, don't think about getting into a pissing match with me. Thanks for your feedback. Move on to the next thread.

One can see what a delight you are

Originally Posted by Cujo

Christ almighty, sensitive much?
He was just trying to help. And I agree with his points.
Starting a formal business letter to your employers with 'G'day'? And your mother taught you and your uncles taught you....?
Keep it professional.

Yup, a teenage girl having a tizz

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

just treating a 'pedantic bastard' pedantically.

As opposed to you 40 hours and not a minute more' pedantic bastard

Originally Posted by Iceman123

I would want get rid of you as soon as practical.

Any excuse to get rid of the racist moron with an attitude

Originally Posted by kingwilly

But, if you had no intention of accepting any advice, why ask for it ? Was it to receive a big pat on the back about What a macho, no nonsense letter you can write?

Indeed . . . looking at all his anti-Chinese rants one wonders why he is there in the first place - or better, why he is still there . . . can't be that

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

I've survived 13 years in greater China

It takes a special kind of stupid to stay in a place you hate for 13 years . . . the self-loathing must be immense

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

And yes I am that good. Proven it to myself

. . . yet you can't find a job in Malaysia or Thailand - yep, you are obviously the cream of the crop . . . your mother, uncles, aunts etc... will tell you so . . .

Having re-read this, I am even more amazed . .

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

the boss knows I won't take shit from him.

Sorted.

Yea, you showed him, eh . . or them . . . I'm sure they re quaking in their bots and are working out a ay to right royally fuck you - legally -

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Stupid? Far from it.

Indeed not, s is evidenced by the following:

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

G'day xx, yy, zz

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Doing some math (as my accountant mother taught me), and research (as my lawyer uncles taught me)

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

This equals to 91%

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Thus I would clearly think

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

And not working on the fact

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

I expect timely, non-delayed payment

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

And not working on the fact that I was present for only 23 of 30 days in September, which equals to 77%, which will result in a markedly lower salary.

One could go into the minutiae but you simply wouldn't understand . . .

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

My statement to all at HKP

All? The cleaner? Secretary?

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

I provide a top-tier service to you

So you say, you have been there who long?

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Please refer to these sources:

Your China Expat Employee Contract. It Depends.... | China Law Blog
China Employment Contracts -- Ten Things to Consider
Chinese Labour Law and Working Conditions in China (note housing and vacation allowance)

Don't be a lazy shit, quote the relevant sections

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

To be honest

Always a good indication that you are not always honest if you need to highlight one occasio when you are

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

To be honest money is a dirty topic

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

I wanted to sleep on it and get some feedback from you and my uncles - yes I really do have two uncles who are laywers.

I have a wife who is a lawyer . . . and I don't reference that in any letters I write to authorities . . . I'm sure they have more lawyers in their company - Chinese ones, specialised in Chinese labor laws

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

And yes I am that good

Clearly not, based on your proposed letter

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

Proven it to myself

Originally Posted by Baas Babelaas

previous employers (top uni's, top airlines, top hotel chains)

Yet here you are working for a pittance and getting upset at working a few hours extra - as an educator!!!! . . . and, again, you can't even buy yourself a job in any other country with those TOP uni's (it's plural, not possessive - basic English - your are Sooo Good!), TOP airlines and TOP hotel chains

You seem quite the arrogant one, clearly not a positive influence on co-workers - I'm suprised they hired you