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  1. #1
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    Reverse Darwinism Or......

    First of all let me just say that without modern medicine I would probably not be alive today. I dont want to offend anybody that has had a disease cured like cancer or what not..

    But isnt what we are doing to ourselves as a species through medicine and medical procedures just making ourselves week, and in fact breeding these defects into ourselves? Is this just ignored, not realized or simply accepted?

    For example.. I have asthma which i may have died from but thnx to modern medicine i will live and maybe some day have kids with a woman that has a bad heart and had surgery when she was younger in order to live.

    Now these traits will be passed on with even higher chances of getting mixed with other less than desirable genetic traits.

    Think about antibiotics for a moment..

    I would really just like to hear the opinion of some of the more intelligent people here. Would you agree with what i have said?

    Please put all moral issues aside.

  2. #2
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    have considered it also.

    but commonly accepted theories of evolution these days tend to be that....

    little change occurs for long periods of time, and then, due to a selective pressure, rapid change results.

    so unless humanity suddenly faces a gaurantuan crisis then little or no evolution will be occurring...

  3. #3
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    Yep I quite agree, people with defects should not be allowed to have children, infact it would probably be best if they were never allowed to have sex just incase, does color blindness count?

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    Clean them up and it might be done, at the moment they look crap

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtydog View Post
    Yep I quite agree, people with defects should not be allowed to have children, infact it would probably be best if they were never allowed to have sex just incase, does color blindness count?
    its a fine line between talk like this and exterminating Jews, gypsies, handicapped people and Butterfly

  6. #6
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    What you are referring to is Lamarckism not Darwinism Cali, which apart from a small fruitcake minority is scientifically discredited.
    Any gained resistance to antibiotics will not be genetically transmitted.

  7. #7
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    ^^I assume the Welsh fall under the gypsy category?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cali kid
    I would really just like to hear the opinion of some of the more intelligent people here.
    I don't think they read this bit CK.

    by the way, this one is all cleaned up DD.


  9. #9
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    Speak of the devil

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    Any gained resistance to antibiotics will not be genetically transmitted.
    Is that what the drug companies are saying?

    In the short term, you can see the effect of over prescription of antibiotics in the way the Thai staff at work are sick more often than they are not.
    This in spite of never smoking or drinking.

  11. #11
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    Thats what Mendelian genetics says.

  12. #12
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    ^That's not what he's saying, he's saying he will pass on his asthmatic gene

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    Thats what Mendelian genetics says.
    No chance of a summary is there.
    sounds a bit complicated.

  14. #14
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    To keep it simple traits are inherited via genes. A resistance to antibiotics or whatever built up during one's lifetime has no effect whatsoever on your genetic structure, thus can not be passed on or inherited.
    Asthma however is genetically transmittable, along with many other conditions.

  15. #15
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    ^
    Thanks.

  16. #16
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    Even assuming that natural selection is still the prime mover in human evolution we are creating our own environment in which the old selection pressures apply less and less. Once we became intelligent tool using animals we started modifying selection pressures and, in a sense, moved outside them. We also need to think about what exactly a tool using species needs to survive. Whilst health and sexual fitness are important for the survival of a species so are creativity and intelligence. The strength of humanity as a species is not just physical but also mental and spiritual. It's our creativity and intelligence which has led us to the point where we are no longer the slaves of evolution, condemned by whatever weaknesses we've inherited from our ancestors. To take the example of asthma, this was (and still can be) a debilitating disease but our intelligence has led us to the point where we can control it and where it need no longer be life-threatening or disabling. This applied intelligence is also evolution in action. Asthma, the disease, is caused by environmental and genetic factors - while we still don't seem to be quite smart enough to deal seriously with the environmental causes we are learning a lot about the genetic causes and it's possible that we will in the foreseeable future be able to prevent or cure asthma and other inheritable diseases at the most basic, genetic, level.


    Genetic contribution to asthma severity?


    13/8/02. By the Public Health Genetics Unit
    A study published in the Lancet suggests that variants of a gene encoding the protein interleukin 12B are associated with severity of disease in children who have asthma.
    IL12B plays a role in immune responses to viruses and airborne allergens. The researchers typed a polymorphism in the IL12B gene in two separate groups, each containing about 400 children, from a population cohort of six-year-olds in Perth, Western Australia. The polymorphism is in the promoter region of the gene, a regulatory segment that affects the activity of the gene but does not change the protein that is produced.
    Asthmatic children who had one copy of the gene containing a 4 base-pair insertion in the promoter region, and one copy of the gene without this insertion (heterozygotes), tended to have more severe asthma than children with either two gene copies containing the insertion or two copies containing the deletion (homozygotes). Biochemical studies showed that the heterozygotes produced less of the IL12B protein than did either group of homozygotes. There was no association between the IL12B polymorphism and susceptibility to asthma.
    The symptoms of asthma range from mild to moderate to severe, and can be life-threatening.
    PHGU comment: The fact that this finding was replicated in two separate groups of children from the cohort strengthens its claim to significance. IL12B is also a biologically plausible candidate for involvement in the severity of a disease that is known to be associated with immune system function. However, the fact that heterozygotes produced less IL12B than did either group of homozygotes is difficult to reconcile with current understanding of the regulation of gene expression.
    Article courtesy of the Public Health Genetics Unit .

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Even assuming that natural selection is still the prime mover in human evolution we are creating our own environment in which the old selection pressures apply less and less. Once we became intelligent tool using animals we started modifying selection pressures and, in a sense, moved outside them.
    I'd take the opposite opinion. Because of our technology and urban culture we are becoming very specialised. We have made ourselves very vulnerable to any sudden catastrophic changes in the environment. If the electric was turned off and the shops were emptied how many could survive by growing they're own food.

    Oh and the problem with antibiotics is that bacteria are becoming resistant and they do pass that resistance on to their next generation.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Begbie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Even assuming that natural selection is still the prime mover in human evolution we are creating our own environment in which the old selection pressures apply less and less. Once we became intelligent tool using animals we started modifying selection pressures and, in a sense, moved outside them.
    I'd take the opposite opinion. Because of our technology and urban culture we are becoming very specialised. We have made ourselves very vulnerable to any sudden catastrophic changes in the environment. If the electric was turned off and the shops were emptied how many could survive by growing they're own food.

    .
    Actually I agree with that somewhat, that's why I said 'in a sense'. Take away our tools and we're screwed, for a while. Again, evolution is about species - turn off the electric and lots of people would die but the species wouldn't, nothing to do with evolution. Anyway lots of the world isn't urbanised, maybe us effete townies would go under but there are lots of people who would and do survive without the things that we need. How many already survive by growing their own food?
    Antibiotic resistance is all about evolution, like you said, that's why it pisses me off to see antibiotics on open sale in drugstores and doctors prescribing 5 different types in one go, talk about self-defeating and short-sighted. I think I read somewhere that the most highly effective antibiotics have to be kept locked away and are only used in the most extreme cases because bacteria adapt so quickly.
    Last edited by DrB0b; 12-06-2007 at 08:05 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon
    by the way, this one is all cleaned up DD.
    added, code is wales with : on either side

  20. #20
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    luckily that is beyond CMN. Standby for a thread in the computer section asking what to press on the keyboard to get a colon

  21. #21
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    ^Fek dog, that is not fair, we want one with one of them English flags now.... and no one with a union jack won't do.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cali kid View Post
    First of all let me just say that without modern medicine I would probably not be alive today. I dont want to offend anybody that has had a disease cured like cancer or what not..

    But isnt what we are doing to ourselves as a species through medicine and medical procedures just making ourselves week, and in fact breeding these defects into ourselves? Is this just ignored, not realized or simply accepted?

    For example.. I have asthma which i may have died from but thnx to modern medicine i will live and maybe some day have kids with a woman that has a bad heart and had surgery when she was younger in order to live.

    Now these traits will be passed on with even higher chances of getting mixed with other less than desirable genetic traits.

    Think about antibiotics for a moment..

    I would really just like to hear the opinion of some of the more intelligent people here. Would you agree with what i have said?

    Please put all moral issues aside.

    yes, yes, good old Nazi stuff

    if you let the weak and degenerate breed, you weaken the human race

    our society is specialising in letting the physically weak survive, against all the norms of nature. However, some of those "weaklings" are amongst the most intelligent, and that is what is valued in our society, and the reason for our dominance in nature

    as someone said, if there is a big change in circumstances (global warming), then the human race may die out, or at least become a less dominant species...sad?
    I have reported your post

  23. #23
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    Cheers DD



    lets see if this works.



    It does.

    Cymru am Byth.....

    Pleidiol wyf I'm Gwlad....


  24. #24
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    ^Ffyc off

  25. #25
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    its fucking up the population too, life expectancy used to be around 40 years old, it must be around 90 years old by now. People are just very reluctant to die these days.

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