Had my collar felt today

**9999** · 21-06-2013, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Necron99

Don't go on about having a visa and having rights etc. it's bullshit.
You are at their mercy on this and now you are also on their shitlist.

How does having a visa deny you all your rights?

**jamescollister** · 21-06-2013, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Fluke

Originally Posted by Gerbil

Originally Posted by Fluke

I dont earn money in Thailand , so I dont have to pay tax .

Actually, technically you do have to pay tax.

The rule is weird. You can bring money in from savings (that you earned more than 12 months ago overseas) tax free. Burden of proof is on you to show that it is 'old money' if required.

Money that you earn overseas is liable to Thai tax in the same year (subject to any double taxation agreements).

Anyone who stays more than 180 days in a Tax year in Thailand must file an annual return and pay any taxes due.

*However* It is not possible to file a tax return unless you have a work permit, so it is a law impossible to comply with.

You can use the argument that 'I cant comply with this as I dont have a work permit'.

They *may* say, 'Ah but you have stayed more than 180 days and therefore must pay tax. Therefore you must get a work permit or leave the country'.

MY Gf is Thai, I shall put her down as "expenses" and claim a rebate

Well yes you can, in many western countries you can claim on a depended overseas spouse. Hard to prove without a child, but you can claim for the common law wife and for any child you support. Jim

**Warrior** · 21-06-2013, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Fluke

Originally Posted by ltnt

^Why not? You're not going anywhere and the Thai way, giving you the benefit of the doubt as well a long rope. They make one phone call and all the exits have your data.

Its pretty obvious this was not a "random," questioning." They were zeroed in on you before you saw them and they know more about your circumstances than they led you to believe. This picture isn't what you think it is imho Fluke.

All the exits are welcome to have all my data , I havent done anything wrong and and completely legitimate .
You claim that this wasnt a random questioning . Well, Im living in the Mountains and I havent told anyone whereabouts , havent given the village name to anyone , so they couldnt have come here especially to see me, because they didnt know that I was here .
They also knew nothing about me , only what I told them .
In the Mountains, they quite often set up check points and give the locals checks and when they find things not in order , instant fines are dished out(with no receipt).
If they thought that they had legitimate reasons to question me about anything , they wouldnt have jumped up and left after I filmed their IDs .
They were sat have lunch , saw a foreigner and tried their luck .
They are probably worried that I will take the video to their superiors .
I dont know the regulations about Immigration officers, but I would be surprised if these guys acting within the rules .

Indeed, they sat to have lunch, they saw a farang and decided to combine lunch with work and checked your status. Maybe they had a social chat with the restaurant owner before talking to you, and the owner told them you were a regular. Who knows?
What counts is: they did their job, i.e., to check your legal status. The many 15 day visa stamps in your passport didnt make it look straight forward to them. However legal you can claim it is, in fact what you do as exploiting a loophole that isnt meant for longstays. You know that, they know that, we all know that.

So they decided to dig a little deeper. And discovered that although you have stayed for long periods of time, you havent properly registered - most likely. So they want to investigate and discuss further. Thats their job, Fluke.

It might all seem highly inproper to you - you better live with the fact that this is TH, laws and customs can be bend and applied as considered useful.
Taken that into account, I suggest you make friends with them, so that next time some law bending is needed, it will be bend in your favor.

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Necron99

Tax is a little of topic and not relevant to you situation.
The fact is you have not complied with the reporting requirements, whether they are generally enforced or not is not relevant. They can enforce them if they want to.
You are not a tourist yet are here on a tourist visa.
They can revoke that at any time, it's in their power.
Don't go on about having a visa and having rights etc. it's bullshit.
You are at their mercy on this and now you are also on their shitlist.
The video doesn't have anything on it other than two officials going about their lawful business, it does have a directive of you to report, which you have declined to do, so is only a nail in your own coffin.

I beleive that the officers acted beyond the rules .
Are immigration officers allowed to just walk around and randomly investigate people?
Are immigration officials permitted to turn up unannounced at people homes and interrogate them without informing their head office and without it being recorded?
I suggest that they are not because that gives them the opportunity to receive under the table payments .
Can immigration officials walk around Pattaya and randomly question people?
I believe that they cannot because it would be wide open to abuse.
If they catch someone on an overstay , they can simply say *You face a 20 000 Baht fine , 50 000 Baht for a flight home and a few weeks in jail whilst we process your deportation......now no one knows Im here ...Im a bit short on money this week..........Can you think of a solution to both our problems"
They were not doing their job, they were trying to shake me down .
Interviews with Police and immigration are filmed , so why would he object to me filming this interview ?
Why did he get up and immediately leave after he found out that I was filming?
If he was acting legitimately, he wouldnt have been concerned about the interview being recorded .
Why didnt he take me to the immigration office and interview me in the correct manner?
Once he had seen that my Visa was current , thats it, thats his job done .
He tried extortion, got nowhere and left

**Bung** · 22-06-2013, 10:50 AM

It's a real bugger when immigration start hassling you about a visa when you know you are in the right isn't it?

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Bung

It's a real bugger when immigration start hassling you about a visa when you know you are in the right isn't it?

It sure is , after all, they issued me with my Visa in the first place .
If immigration object to people having numerous Visa.........they should stop giving them out.....simple .
I dont make the rules........I just comply with them.

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

They say when you make that first back hander payment you are then considered an easy target and source of income.

Whilst what some have suggested, and that is to pay the guy and make the problem go away is sometimes good in other cases you then have been deemed to have admitted guilt and will be hounded for regular payments.

Don't open the can of worms in the first place and stand your ground if you are 100% sure you are legal.

It is also illegal to pay bribe money .
As soon as you pay bribe money you are committing a crime and are then open to prosecution .

**xanax** · 22-06-2013, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Fluke

I dont make the rules........I just comply with them.

Not quite as you did not register the address you were living at did you?

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by xanax

Originally Posted by Fluke

I dont make the rules........I just comply with them.

Not quite as you did not register the address you were living at did you?

That rule is so unfollowed , it can be considered as not a rule anymore .
How many people actually go and register with the Police when they visit a new town?
26 Million tourists to Thailand a year , 1 million people a week during high season.
How many register at a Police station when they arrive in a new place?
Its an obsolete rule that no one adheres to and no one checks whether youve adhered to it or not

**Necron99** · 22-06-2013, 03:24 PM

^ Except these guys. With you.

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 03:28 PM

That was just part of their failed extortion attempt .

**Warrior** · 22-06-2013, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Fluke

Originally Posted by xanax

Originally Posted by Fluke

I dont make the rules........I just comply with them.

Not quite as you did not register the address you were living at did you?

That rule is so unfollowed , it can be considered as not a rule anymore .
How many people actually go and register with the Police when they visit a new town?
26 Million tourists to Thailand a year , 1 million people a week during high season.
How many register at a Police station when they arrive in a new place?
Its an obsolete rule that no one adheres to and no one checks whether youve adhered to it or not

Well, a rule is a rule. And in TH it is applied in a Thai way.
Furthermore, all these tourist you mention - they are in fact registered with the authorities, as their hotel is obliged to take care of that.

You asked somewhere else if the immigration police can do random checks; you bet they can. Is that open to abuse? Maybe so. But the other way around - if they can't do random checks of foreigner they suspect - thats open to abuse too. Abuse by illegal aliens that is.

You make a fuss about nothing. Smile. Have a chat with them. Smile. Solve it. The Thai way. There is no other way.

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 03:48 PM

Smile , have a chat with them, give them 2000 Baht , solved it

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Well, a rule is a rule. And in TH it is applied in a Thai way.
Furthermore, all these tourist you mention - they are in fact registered with the authorities, as their hotel is obliged to take care of that.

Did you not see the bit where I wrote "When they visist a new town" , as in a Town where they arent registered on their arrival card?

**Warrior** · 22-06-2013, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Fluke

Originally Posted by Warrior

Well, a rule is a rule. And in TH it is applied in a Thai way.
Furthermore, all these tourist you mention - they are in fact registered with the authorities, as their hotel is obliged to take care of that.

Did you not see the bit where I wrote "When they visist a new town" , as in a Town where they arent registered on their arrival card?

I saw that Fluke, but it seems that I didnt make myself clear. Tourists staying in hotels are reported by the hotel to the authorities. Independent from whats on the arrival card.
Its an obligation for hotels to register all guests. And that register is a basis for reporting to the authorities. And can - and will - be checked by the police.
Of course its independent from the arrival card: the card shows only one address, many tourist change places a few times during their stay.

Whats on the arrival card... no one cares. A few years ago I arrived at BKK airport and didnt fill in the address section on the arrival card, as my hotel was booked by the comapny that I was visiting on business, and I just didnt know which hotel they had booked for me.
The woman at the custom desk complained I hadnt completed the address section, so I explained I didnt yet know where I would stay. But she insisted that I completed the address section anyway.
Which I then did, standing at her desk, just writing down a hotel name/address I had stayed before. She accepted that and stamped me in.
She accepted that, knowing very well that I had written down complete bullocks.

How many times do I have to say Fluke... this is Thailand, rules and laws are applied in a Thai way. They bend, you bend too. That makes life easy. Smile.

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 04:12 PM

If corrupt officials bend the rules to such a degree that it becomes extortion , I wont bend over and accept it , dont care which Country its in

**Warrior** · 22-06-2013, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Fluke

If corrupt officials bend the rules to such a degree that it becomes extortion , I wont bend over and accept it , dont care which Country its in

Yes, I have noticed.
Enjoy.

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 04:19 PM

Will do .
How about yourself, would be back down and give money to extortionists?

**Warrior** · 22-06-2013, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Fluke

Will do .
How about yourself, would be back down and give money to extortionists?

Extortionists?

If the law says I have to register when I stay for an extended period at a certain address, and if I havent registered, and the penalty is 2,000bt - I would pay 2,000bt.

I was born in the Netherlands, and from experience I know that aliens staying at a private house in the Netherlands, need to report to the police. If you dont, you'll get fined. Or, in the worse case: thrown out of the country.
So I recognize this rule very well.

Am I corrupt? Am I taking advantage of corruption? I guess I do.

In TH I often go out without proper identification. I know it can get you into trouble, but I find my passport sometimes too big to carry.
Anyway, one night, on my way back to the hotel, from a dinner, in the car of the owner of the company I was doing business with, we were stopped at a roadblock. I was without my passport, I told my business partner.
He smiled, and said not to worry.
Now you have to understand he is a powerfull, influentual person in his city. And beyond.
He switched off the headlights from his car and slowly drove up to the policemen at the roadblock. They looked in his car with their flashlights, reckognized him and let us go through. No questions asked.
I asked my partner why he had switched off the headlights: that was so the cops could easily reckognize him.
So he knew his influence and supposed power would make the cops not ask any questions.
Did I gain from that? Yes I did. Is it corrupt? I guess it is.
Do I carry his business card with me always? I do. So I can show it when in trouble.

This country is about relationships, and supposed social importance. And farang are usually outside the rating.

Once I checked in for my flight at the airport from the city of my business partner. The guy at the check-in desk didnt say a thing, not even hello/sawadeekhrap, although I was nice, wished him a good afternoon and was properly dressed - in my business suit.
Then, my business partner who happened to be at the airport to check in his daughter on another flight, came to see me to wish me a good trip and gave his daughter the chance to say hello to me. I spend a minute with them, and then turned back to the check-in employee.
Who by then completely had changed his attitude, he was nice, he smiled, he said a few words, he wished me a very pleasant flight.
Why the change? I suspect he concluded that I wasnt just a farang on holiday, but a person of importance coz my - supposedly well off - business partner with his daughter came to say "hello" to me.

What have I learned? We are white, we are farang, we are outside the rankings. We can be ignored.
It won't always happen, but there is no 'social penalty' for someone who treats you as an outsider.

If that bothers you too much, if that becomes more important than all the things you gain by moving to TH... You will have a hard time.
It's like fighting against windmills. It costs a lot of energy, and you dont gain a thing.

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 05:25 PM

He did initially say that the money could be paid directly to him , it was only when we said that we wouldnt give him any money directly he said that we have to go to a Police station to register .
Now if I overstay Im quite happy to pay the overstay fine and if I do anything else wrong, then I will take the consequences .
I have been all over Thailand , From Maesai to Had Yai and from Nong Kai to Kanchanaburi and pretty much everywhere in between , staying in various guest houses/hotels over a number of years and not once have I ever registered anywhere or been asked too or asked whether I have , no ones ever mentioned having to register , actually it was only reading this thread that I realised that I had to , even still, Im still skeptical about whether I need to register or not .
I ve never seen it written anywhere and have never been informed that I need to do it .
Im not saying that ignorance of law is an excuse .
But this particular law isnt upheld , how many people have actually been prosecuted for non registration ?
Also, there isnt a Police station to register near where I live , the closest one is two hours away .
The immigration officer wasnt concerned about whether I was registered or not, he just wanted me to pay him the fine .

**taxexile** · 22-06-2013, 05:40 PM

These minor regulations are probably purposely not strictly enforced, in order to give officials the opportunity to impose penalties ( lawfully ) when their funds need topping up. If everybody went to report to immigration every time they arrived in a new town they would be swamped with paperwork. Lax enforcement gives them the opportunity to have crackdowns with sll the money they bring in.

**jamescollister** · 22-06-2013, 05:49 PM

Well Fluke the balls out of your court now, as you didn't attend the Immigration, you don't know whether the matters was forgotten or not.

Just got to hope it's forgotten and they didn't flag you on the computer and you get screwed around every time you enter the country.

Doesn't just happen in Thailand, was given extra attention by customs in OZ for a few years, never found out why.

Best of luck. Jim

**Warrior** · 22-06-2013, 05:51 PM

Are you telling me that "not once have I ever registered anywhere" means that the hotels you stayed did not register your name and arrival card number? Ever?
I find this hard to believe. Even the most remote guesthouse has always registered my name and arrival card number. Always.

Come on Fluke, you were just unlucky that you run into these guys at that restaurant. Take your loss and move on.

I cant stop myself from believing that you look at this through Western eyes, applying Western standards.
Besides, you are more than happy to exploit the loophole of the 15 days visas - which western country would allow their visitors this?

Yes I know - what you are doing is probably within the boundaries of the Thai law. But hey, Thai laws and rules are applied in a Thai way. By Thai cops. Some are corrupt.
Face it.

And also: I said that what you are doing is probably within the boundaries of the Thai law. Is it certain that the Thai authorities are obliged to renew your 15 days visa over and over again? Are they obliged to always accept what you do?
Most countries have an 'escape' in their visa regulations, that would allow them to deny you entry if they suspect you will bend the rules too far.

I know for a fact that Western countries, such as the Schengen countries, can deny an alien access, even if the visa was already issued, when they suspect the visitor will bend the rules. They visa is then revoked - even before the alien actually did something wrong.

So all comes back to the fact that you suspect your cops asking you tea money.
Yes, that happens in third world countries. A lot. In some places much more than in TH.
But in TH it happens too.

You should have known before you came here. You wanna fight it? Good luck. Remember Don Quixote.

I one more time strongly suggest you smile and take your loss. There's a lot to gain.

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Are you telling me that "not once have I ever registered anywhere" means that the hotels you stayed did not register your name and arrival card number? Ever?
I find this hard to believe. Even the most remote guesthouse has always registered my name and arrival card number. Always.

Come on Fluke, you were just unlucky that you run into these guys at that restaurant. Take your loss and move on.

I cant stop myself from believing that you look at this through Western eyes, applying Western standards.
Besides, you are more than happy to exploit the loophole of the 15 days visas - which western country would allow their visitors this?

Yes I know - what you are doing is probably within the boundaries of the Thai law. But hey, Thai laws and rules are applied in a Thai way. By Thai cops. Some are corrupt.
Face it.

And also: I said that what you are doing is probably within the boundaries of the Thai law. Is it certain that the Thai authorities are obliged to renew your 15 days visa over and over again? Are they obliged to always accept what you do?
Most countries have an 'escape' in their visa regulations, that would allow them to deny you entry if they suspect you will bend the rules too far.

I know for a fact that Western countries, such as the Schengen countries, can deny an alien access, even if the visa was already issued, when they suspect the visitor will bend the rules. They visa is then revoked - even before the alien actually did something wrong.

So all comes back to the fact that you suspect your cops asking you tea money.
Yes, that happens in third world countries. A lot. In some places much more than in TH.
But in TH it happens too.

You should have known before you came here. You wanna fight it? Good luck. Remember Don Quixote.

I one more time strongly suggest you smile and take your loss. There's a lot to gain.

Two quick points : I havent suffered any losses and I now have a six month Visa soon to be a yearly Visa either through Family or education

**Fluke** · 22-06-2013, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Are you telling me that "not once have I ever registered anywhere" means that the hotels you stayed did not register your name and arrival card number? Ever?
I find this hard to believe. Even the most remote guesthouse has always registered my name and arrival card number. Always.

Two seperate things there .
I am saying that I have never been to register myself at a Police station and Im unaware that any places that I ve stayed have registered me , but they may have done so without my knowledge .
I have registered at hotels, but we are talking about registering at Police stations as well as at hotels

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