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  1. #1
    Fag an bealac!
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    Lance Armstrong, junkie or not??

    is the truth finally catching up with Lance Armstrong, and is this one race the seven-time Tour de France champion may not be able to win?

    In Tuesday's New York Times, two of Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammates admitted to having used EPO, an illegal performance-enhancing drug, at some point in 1999, the first year Armstrong won the Tour de France. While neither said they saw Armstrong do the same, the implication was that the drug use was common knowledge within the team. "The environment was certainly one of, to be accepted, you had to use doping products," said one of Armstrong's teammates, who requested anonymity, fearing reprisals from the notoriously vindictive Armstrong, who still wields considerable power in cycling.

    The other teammate was 39-year-old Frankie Andreu, a domestique who competed professionally for 12 years and was once Armstrong's close friend and roommate. He's now a motivational speaker and real-estate dealer in Dearborn, Mich. He said he only used EPO "for a couple of races" and was speaking out in hopes of cleaning up his tainted sport.
    More interesting -- to me, anyway -- was the testimony the Times uncovered that Andreu and his wife, Betsy, gave last fall during a lawsuit between Armstrong and SCA Promotions. The company had withheld a $5 million bonus it owed Armstrong after he won the '04 Tour because of doping allegations.


    The suit was eventually settled out of court in Armstrong's favor, but in their sworn testimony the Andreus said that when they visited Armstrong in the hospital after he'd been diagnosed with testicular cancer, they'd heard him tell his oncologists that he'd used "steroids, testosterone, cortisone, growth hormone and EPO." Their testimony was disputed by the doctor who administered Armstrong's chemotherapy at Indiana University Medical Center. In the same trial, Armstrong testified that his doctors never asked him if he'd used performance-enhancing drugs, and that he'd never used those substances.


    Which testimony is more credible? The Andreus' or Armstrong's? Ask yourself which party had the most to gain by lying. And why is that particular testimony significant? Because one of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular cancer. It's impossible to prove, but if what the Andreus testified to under oath is true, than Lance Armstrong, role model and hero to so many cancer survivors, may very well have helped bring about his own cancer through his use of performance-enhancing drugs. Young athletes tempted to go down that road need to know if that's the case.


    None of what was reported in the Times is a shock to me. In 1999 I went to see Willy Voet, the Belgian trainer of the French-based Festina cycling team who was at the center of the '98 Tour de France scandal when he was arrested while crossing the border with literally hundreds of vials of EPO, growth hormones and testosterone.


    Voet ended up spending time in prison, and by the time he talked to me he was a man filled with remorse. He, too, was interested in helping to clean up his sport, and had written a book in French, the title of which translates as Chain Massacre: Revelations of 30 Years of Cheating. It made him an outcast in cycling but painstakingly chronicled the drug culture that only now is recognized as having infected the sport.
    In the 1970s, Voet said, the drug of choice was amphetamines. In the '80s it was anabolic steroids and cortisone. In the '90s it was growth hormones and EPO. He described leaning out a car window to give a shot to a cyclist in the middle of a race. He recalled hiding condoms of clean urine in the anus of cyclists to fool drug-testers. He spoke of dripping IV bags of saline solution into their bodies after a race to lower the ratio of red-blood-cell volume to total blood volume to avoid EPO detection in the event of a surprise drug test.
    Of the 500 cyclists he'd worked with over the years, only two had ever failed a drug test. "A racer who gets caught by doping control is dumb as a mule," Voet told me.

    And how many of those 500 cyclists he worked with did not take drugs to enhance their performance? "I can count them on two hands. Maybe two hands and two feet if I'm generous," Voet said.
    And where did the clean ones finish? I wondered.
    "The back of the pack," Voet said.
    Armstrong never finished at the back of the pack. Neither did his onetime teammate, Tyler Hamilton, the '04 Olympic champion who was suspended for two years for blood doping. Neither did another former teammate, Floyd Landis, who failed a doping test after winning this year's Tour de France. Neither did Italy's Ivan Basso, or Germany's Jan Ullrich, or Spain's Francisco Mancebo, who finished second, third and fourth to Armstrong in the '05 Tour, all of whom have been implicated in the Spanish doping investigation that rocked the start of this year's Tour. Each disputes the allegations.

    There's nothing new in any of this. Voet was telling the truth, but not enough people were listening. The sport of cycling is dirty, was dirty and will continue to be dirty until more athletes like Andreu and trainers like Voet come forward and break the code of silence. Remember those names. They're the heroes.
    Here's the thing about truth: It may take a while. It may take years. But truth's a tenacious battler. Eventually it will come out.

  2. #2
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    To me, the testicular cancer had me wondering.

    Didn't L'Equippe get the dirty on him regarding failed tests, only to get it brushed under the carpet?

    I stopped watching the Olympics after Ben Johnson, and when I see that aussie freak Thorpe with the size 19 feet Iknow he's a cheat too.

    Side efects of steroids = testicular cancer and big feet

  3. #3
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    They should just let them do whatever they want.

    If they want to try to win clean and live a long life they can, if they want to pump themselves full of drugs and die aged 44 of a heart attack they can.

    I would like to think that Armstrong is / was clean but........
    You dont pay them to stay for the night, you pay them to leave in the morning

  4. #4
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    Didn't L'Equippe get the dirty on him regarding failed tests, only to get it brushed under the carpet?
    I think the case made by the L'Equippe with its anti US editorial line was ripped to pieces, rather than brushed under the carpet.

    If L'Equippe had anything on Armstrong they would have gone to court - But all they had was fiction and anti US spite.

    About par for the course with the French.

  5. #5
    I don't know barbaro's Avatar
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    With Armstrong I have to say:

    I just don't know.


    He's a bit of a freak of nature:

    1. His body produces one of the largest levels of oxygen from his lungs to his blood.

    2. His body produces extremely low lever of lactid acid (that produce the "burn" feeling in muscles.


    Maybe he did; maybe he didn't

    If it can't be proven, it cannot be proven, regardless of what his team may or may not have done.

  6. #6
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    You're starting to weaken on your stance MM. By the way ... I recently read one of the "Lance Armstrong" books through his 5th Tour de France.

    Armstrong had some doctor Italian dude as his trainer all those years who was convicted of this sort of thing shortly after the 5th win ... he never let the guy guy all those years until then.

    IMHO the whole sport is flat out dirty ... over 90% of them at least. but somehow Armstrong has mastered whatever form of cheating he is doing.

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    Lance Armstrong, junkie or not??
    junkie.

    didn't a couple of his teammates recently admit to or get caught doping?

    professional cycling is a sham.

  8. #8
    I am in Jail
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    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    Lance Armstrong, junkie or not??
    junkie.

    didn't a couple of his teammates recently admit to or get caught doping?

    professional cycling is a sham.
    So it's guilt by association now! How broadminded we are!
    Last edited by Mr Earl; 17-09-2006 at 09:43 PM.

  9. #9
    Somewhere Travelling
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    I think Lance gets a free pass because of the testicular cancer and his recovery.

    Sometimes you can be guilty as hell but still get good press coverage that keeps the doubters at bay.

    All these cheaters are why professional sports are something I won't patronize.

  10. #10
    The Cat
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    Have you ever tried to ride a bicycle at 40 km/h for 6 hours a day, 20 days in a row?
    They're all junkies...

  11. #11
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    junkie. clear call. i dont buy his maling-survivng, apple pie eatin, bullshit for a second.

  12. #12
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    Yes, it is inconceivable that he he could have dominated at the top of a sport completely riddled with drug abuse for so many years without being involved himself. Only the most naieve of people would believe that he was clean. It's literally common knowledge in the sporting world.

    However, i can understand how he could feel completely justified in denying such claims. In a sport where everyone is at it, and you have no hope of climbing to the top without doing so, it is probably viewed as the only way of obtaining a level playing field. He probably knows that they were all doing it as well, and therefore to him his victory is credible enough. But to admit it would of course destroy his reputation for the rest of his life, he probably feels that he doesn't deserve that in light of what the opposition were up to as well.

    Bottom line is though, it is a shambles of a sport and will be viewed with great distrust for a long time to come, and quite rightly so. And Armstrong's name will be forever tainted with drug allegations, also in all likelihood quite rightly so.

  13. #13
    Thailand Expat raycarey's Avatar
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    nice post eddie.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecat View Post
    Have you ever tried to ride a bicycle at 40 km/h for 6 hours a day, 20 days in a row?
    They're all junkies...
    If he's the best out of all of the junkies, then good on him! I think we outta change the name of the tour to Tour de Lance!

    (just to wind some people up) And God Bless America!

  15. #15
    I am in Jail
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Earl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by raycarey View Post
    Lance Armstrong, junkie or not??
    junkie.

    didn't a couple of his teammates recently admit to or get caught doping?

    professional cycling is a sham.
    So it's guilt by association now! How broadminded we are!
    Maybe suspicion by association. If I saw you, although I've never seen you, walk out of a gay bar with your hand up some katoy's mini I'd think you were .............. gay.

  16. #16
    watterinja
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluecat View Post
    Have you ever tried to ride a bicycle at 40 km/h for 6 hours a day, 20 days in a row?
    They're all junkies...
    Normal riders have good & bad days. A good day, every day, means they are pretty much dopeheads. Just need to find out what dope they're using. Clever buggers.

  17. #17
    Mid
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    Destroyed the sport ( sic ) of cycling .

  18. #18
    The Pikey Hunter
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    A 6 year old thread bump. Must be a new TD record!

  19. #19
    Mid
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    Not the smartest cookie are you Gerbil ?

  20. #20
    The Pikey Hunter
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    ^ you bumped a thread without adding anything new to it other than a comment. The post above yours is dated 23-09-2006.

    Unless of course there was another post which has been deleted, in which case yours and mine should also be deleted.

  21. #21
    Mid
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    We hate bumpers, if you bump a post that is old and add nothing of value to it we trash your post, remember, a smiley adds no value at all to any thread, neither does "great thread" or "nice pics", they are destined for the great trash bin in the sky.

    TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum TeakDoor Secrets

    Comments appear to be kosha .

  22. #22
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    Lance should just man up and grow a set.

  23. #23
    The Pikey Hunter
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    ^ sick.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mid View Post
    Destroyed the sport ( sic ) of cycling .

    why do you say that? if they are all taking drugs, it is a fair contest

    what do you think about Wiggins? clean?

    he came from almost nowhere, just a good team member

  25. #25
    Mid
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrAndy

    why do you say that? if they are all taking drugs, it is a fair contest
    sport , drugs and fair contest ...................

    have another go

    better yet DON"T.

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