The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

El Gibbon

I'm not a bad cook, at least that's what they tell me. There is one area that I suck at and that is pastry. I've tried and tried but even though I know the "rules" I can't seem to get the perfect pastry. Yeah, I've been known to go to Foodland and buy puff pastry when I need it.

Breads and rolls are a piece of piss but pastry just don't hack it. Yes, I have a fairly high standard but that makes it all the more frustrating.

Why the thread? Maybe we can all learn from one another and in the mean time have some fun with pastry. Open to all and sundry. Have a pastry recipe that works? post it here (hopefully with pix) and specific How to do's.

One of the many things on my to-do-list is to learn how to do excellent pastry. I've even looked at attending classes. Sadly there are none that I can find here that are taught in English. (or American for that matter )

My latest effort as soon as the pix get loaded.

E. G.

__________________
"If you can't stand the answer --
Don't ask the question!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Timber

Same here EG, I can handle breads but pastries are another story altogether.

Here's a few recipes I've put together with some degree of success.

Puff Pastry Recipe (See Slimboyfat's great recipe for cornish pasties) These are straight out of the Le Cordon Bleu culinary textbook in easy terms. I'm posting the quick version and the pain in the ass version. I usually use the quick one as I've found it to be good enough for most applications but it does not rise as high as true puff pastry so it may not be suitable for patty shells and other applications where a high light pastry is desirable. But the quicky is my goto for reliable puff pastry. It is how it should be done. Recipe as follows:

Blitz (or quick) Puff Pastry, Le Cordon Bleu Method (yield 5lb/2515g or 200 %)

Bread flour 1lb/500g or 50%
Pastry flour 1lb/500g or 50%
Butter, slightly softened 2lb/1000g or 100%

Salt 1/2oz/15g or 1.5%
Water, cold 1 lb/500g or 50%

Procedure:

Mix your flours well into a mixing bowl.
Cut the butter into the flour, about 1 inch cuts.
Dissolve the salt in the water.
Add the water to the flour-butter mix and mix till well absorbed.
Rest it for 15 min, if you're in Thailand just dtuyen it b/c the natural air is to hot & humid.
Dust your work area with plenty of flower and roll out the dough into a rectangle. Give it three 4 folds. (Fold it 4 times, turn it, fold it 4 more and repeat...this gives you the layers in a good puff)

Pain in the Ass Puff Pastry (also Le Cordon Bleu method; yield 11 lb):

Bread flour 3lb/1500g/75%
Cake flour 1lb/500g/25%
Butter soft 8oz/150g/12.5%

Salt 1oz/30g/1.5%
Water, cold 2.25lb/1125g/56%

Butter 4lb/2000g/100%
Bread flour* 8oz/250g/12.5%

*the purpose the 8oz bread flour is to absorb some of the moisture of the butter. Omit if puff paste shortening is used instead of butter.

Procedure:

Place the 1st quantities of flour and the butter in the mixing bowl. With a paddle attachment mix at low speed until well blended.
Dissolve the salt in the cold water.
Add the salted water to the four and mix at low speed until a soft dough is formed. Do not overmix.
Remove the dough from the mixer and let rest in the dtuyen for yee sip natee. (20 min)
Cream the last quantities of butter and flour at low speed in the mixer, assuming you have one but if you don't and your trying to do this recipe you WILL be sadly disappointed. You should see "pastry non pain in the ass version" above. Do this until the mix is about the same consistency as the dough, not to hard or mushy, if you read my post you'll know what I'm talking about. Roll the butter into the dough giving it 4 four folds or 3 five folds...see non pain in the ass version for details.
Slimboyfat has a good pastry recipe here too. http://teakdoor.com/the-kitchen/2714...tml#post585508 (Slimboyfat's Singapore Cornish pasty adventures)

__________________
Saphan Kwai

Happyman

Can manage a pie crust and " en croute" for lumps of meat and thats about it !



Not got an oven now so don't even do that !!!

I do remember that the chef we used to employ always said the secret of good pastry is a Kenwood Mixmaster !!!!

peterpan

The secret for good pastry is having the use of a pastry break or roller, bloody difficult to laminate pastry without it. I know it was done before modern machinery but to me making pastry with out a mechanical device to roll it out is like trying to make a flame with two bits of wood, technically possible but not by me.

El Gibbon

Timber, saw that recipe on your other thread. Way toooooo time consuming for me , too easy just to buy it. You've the patience of Job if you do it yourself. Besides I'm trying to master a simple short crust LOL

Happyman, I think I've had yours in a prior life.... hmmmm looking for excellence here LOL no offense buddy.

Here we go, the latest attempt.

Basic ingredients for "short crust" pastry:

Flour - 2 cups of all purpose (will make enough pastry for a two crust pie)
Shortening - 2/3 of a cup ( used Crisco but have used butter with the same result)
1/2 teaspoon of salt
6-8 Tablespoons of Ice Water



Two keys are the green bowl and the pastry cutter. You need to keep the clumps of shortening intact, that's what makes the flake. As the shortening heats it releases air and bubbles the crust. (That is the rule anyway ) This means you handle the dough as little as possible to keep your body heat away from it.



Some ice and water to set the mixing bowl in to keep everything cool and to keep the shortening from melting.



An slightly out of focus shot of the 'mixture' after "cutting in" the shortening. Its a bitch to be taking photos while your cooking and your hands are a mess. The flour and shortening should be in small clumps. (I think this one is too fine as I'll describe later)

Next you push your mixture to the side of the bowl and drag about an eigth or so away from the main pile and sprinkle a tablespoon of ice water over it and mix with a fork. You continue until all of the mixture is wetted and looks something like this.



If your doing a two crust pie take two halves of the dough and make balls out it. Just like making a snowball. Don't waste a lot of time with the dough in your hands though as the shortening will start to deteriorate quickly. I was trying for a pastry that would work for pasties and some little things I use as testers. I used about a third of this and made a ball with the rest and put in the freezer.

I'm not an expert on pasties but one thing I've noticed was they are soggy and uncooked on the bottom most times I've tried them. Plus my neighbor is a brit and likes them so figure what the hell, give it a go. Plus, most pasty crust is way too think for my liking. If I want just dough I'll eat bread. OK I digress.



You don't absolutely need this equipment but it makes it a whole lot easier to handle delicate dough. The pastry cloth is basically a hardy linen I believe and the condom for the rolling pin is an elastic sock type material. Basically bleached cotton stuff I suppose.

Flour your surface or cloth LIGHTLY as well as your rolling pin. Take your ball of dough flatten it with your hand and roll out to your desired shape and thickness. In this case the dough was about an eigth of an inch or so. Sorry no pix as my assistant had gone to wash her hair.

I did a circle of about 6 inches in diameter and brushed cool margarine in the center out to about a 1/4 inch from the edge. I added a couple of tablespoons of some shrimp curry that was left over from a recent feast making sure there was plenty of liquid as this was supposed to be a test to see if I could do a pastie that was not soggy or uncooked on the bottom.

I also made some test twirl thingies my mom used to do with left over pie crust. The taste/texture of her twirls remain embedded in my brain and that is the object of my search for a excellent pastry. I've done enough to know that I'm not there yet, yes, they look OK (kinda) taste OK (kinda) but just not right.

After the filling was added I folded the dough over and pinched with a flour dusted fork. The tines make for great sealing. Oh, I took my finger dipped in cold water and moistened that last 1/4 inch of the dough to insure a good seal. Pasty leaks are forbidden from what I can gather.

Put all on baking sheet with baker's parchment ( I even use this when baking free form breads, works a treat an no pans to wash.) Put it in the oven at 215 deg.C and waited for the browning to take effect.




They didn't look to bad coming out, slightly over done but that is easily remedied with a cooler temp. The twirlies had glazed well but were slightly crispy. (the twirlies are made up of strips of dough with sugar and Cinnamon mixed and sprinkled on the dough.)

So far so good. Aha the assistant is back...



Not bad although you can't tell from the fussy photo, it didn't leak, the bottom was cooked and NOT soggy.

Ploblem though, its not a flaky crust like I was looking for. Its not heavy but just needs a little umph in the flaky area.

Will have another go soon.

Some highlights/tips/observations

Make sure you measure exactly the ingredients you use. A little deviation can cause large variances... I know I've thrown away a shit load of pastry failures. This is especially true if your just 'learning' like me...

I believe my crumb in the first step was too small, probably need to keep the shortening in slightly larger clumps to get the flaky effect I'm looking for.

The ice in the pan worked really well with the stainless mixing bowl, it stayed really cold (not just cool) the entire time.

The parchment paper is cheap and re-usable, I get it in Carrefour and have seen it in Tesco and Foodland.

So in the end not a dismal failure at all ( The Pommy tester ate it at least ) but not quite where I want to be.

E. G.

dirtydog

A granite top for rolling your pastry on will keep it cooler longer.

Timber

Honestly most the time I do just buy it. I hate baking and I'm not very good at it.

gjbkk

El Gibbon my wife was told some time ago by a couple of TV chefs and I don't mean ladyboys that the main secret to good pastry, whatever the type is to keep it cool.

Use good quality butter, when we were in the UK she used Danish Lurpak or Normandy butter straight from the fridge.

Make sure that you sieve all the flour for the pastry. This will introduces air into the flour.

When you add water to the flour and butter, make sure that it is very cold water.

Then after you have rolled out the pastry on a cold surface and cut it out, covering your flan case or pie cases, place it in the fridge for at least half an hour, so that the pastry can rest.

You must ensure that the oven is pre-heated for at least 10-15 minutes before the pastry goes in the oven.

As its going from a very cool area to a hot place it helps the pastry to cook properly and be as light as possible.

If you have any more questions ask her its easier

__________________
I can resist everything except temptation!

Jet Gorgon

In Thailand, I put everything in the freezer first -- flour, lard, bowls, knives/pastry cutter. Ice water, too. Then like EG, I used a bottom bowl filled with ice when doing the mixing. As soon as I cut the lard into the flour and played to make dough, the lot went into the fridge for 15-30 min. Always rolled it out on a dusted glass tabletop or formica counter. Never use a tamarind chopping block -- it just sticks.

wanderering walter

What do you want Puff Pastry or Short Pastry?

El Gibbon

The OP described how I tried to keep the dough cool and it worked to perfection, the dough was still cool to the touch after it was rolled. Now the Granite top is a 'known' but with 5 refrigerators at my disposable do thing I can find enough room for a slab of granite???? Would cause world war three!!!

I do like the idea of once cut/shaped/formed putting it back in the fridge for 15 minutes or so.

Yes, the oven was pre-heated to 215 deg C. I had also pre-measured the 2/3 cup of shortening and placed in the freezer while I measured the flour and mixed in the salt and got ready the ice water etc.

There are a lot of uses for short crust pastry so all suggestions will be tried. Thanks

There must be others out there that would like to venture down this road... Show us some of your creations.

E. G.

EDIT: The Crisco is kept in the refrigerator so it never did have a chance to warm to room temperature even and I also had the aircon in the foom running full blast for an hour be fore starting

nedwalk

ok this is my trade, however i rarely [never] bake at home, you are all onto the secrets, cold is a must and as mentioned above without a dough break bloody near impossible to make your 'books or folds' also don,t chop your butter in too much also try and stay away from oils, they have are lower flash point ie they boil sooner, all in all go buy the gear much easier unless you have the time on your hands

Jet Gorgon

^ But it's fun to make a mess.

wanderering walter

Agree with Nedwalk just buy ready made, it was my trade , but find it difficult to replicate

Riatsalawhit

Sift 12oz plain flour and a good pinch of salt in a mixing bowl,from the freezer take a 250g block of margarine and grate this into the flour,mix with fingers until its like breadcrumbs then add 10 dessert spoons of ice cold water and then mix to a paste using a flat wooden spatula then place in fridge to wrest for 30min.
On a floured board roll out the pastry to your required shape.

jandajoy

Pastries, are you any good?

Absolutely shite. It's what supermarkets are for.

jandajoy

Pastry, and fishing.

Peter077

Ingredients 3 Cups Flour ½ Teaspoon Baking Powder 1-Teaspoon Salt 1-Cup Butter-flavored Crisco 1 Tablespoon White Vinegar 5 Tablespoons Cold Water 1 Large Egg, beaten Directions Mix all dry ingredients together and add Crisco. (I mix dough in my stand mixer.) 1. When Crisco and dry ingredients are blended, add the liquid ingredients. Mix well. 2. Turn out on wax paper and make a large ball. 3. Divide the ball into 4 sections and seal each section in a zip lock bag. 4. Makes two 2 crust pies or four single crust pies. 5. Freezes well for 3 months. Keeps in fridge for 3 weeks. When ready to use, take out and roll out for pie.

El Gibbon

Now, that sounds interesting. will give it a go and let you know how it turns out.

Never, never have I heard of using vinegar in any sort of dough. Thanks for the recipe.

E. G.

E. G.