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  1. #51
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    ^^
    Now you are making more sense than calling Thais from Isaan outlaws or the women bargirls. I can agree with this take on not having her learn another dialect. Maybe you are not pathetic after all.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers View Post
    ^^
    Now you are making more sense than calling Thais from Isaan outlaws or the women bargirls. I can agree with this take on not having her learn another dialect. Maybe you are not pathetic after all.
    I call my girlfriends family the 'out-laws' and would call them that wherever they came from - just happens they come from Isaan... ... It seems a more appropriate term to use than 'in-laws'...

    I also call them the 'forragers' because that is what they do most days instaed of shopping for food...

    Both are terms of endearment but they might not think that if they knew and understood....

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9999
    I've also seen a bit of Farang blokes speaking pidgin / Tinglish with their kids. I also disagree with this. AFAIK speaking correct English with a child is the only way to go.
    Yes and no, we change the way we speak to children so that they can learn; listen to how a mother speaks to a young child, it is not 'correct English' that's for sure... it's normal, we change our genre according to who we are speaking to and why; you wouldn't talk to a child in BBC English, or, if you did, then you wouldn't be helping that child to learn; learning is not linear with respect to vocabulary or grammar; children will learn some words/grammar then backtrack for a while before incorporating the learnt grammar/vocab into all their speaking.

    'Babytalk' is normal and vital for the child's learning.

    Thinglish is just crap...
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by superman
    A 50/50 child will automatically be seen as being the result of bar-girl and a farang.
    Really? I think that's complete bollocks. Thais can usually sniff out a bar gir or ex bg from a mile away. My missus is more educated than 90% of the population and this shows in the way she conducts herself; Thais know. Obviously ignorant farangs don't. Get yer arse out of the gutter for a few minutes mate.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bettyboo
    Yes and no, we change the way we speak to children so that they can learn; listen to how a mother speaks to a young child, it is not 'correct English' that's for sure... it's normal, we change our genre according to who we are speaking to and why; you wouldn't talk to a child in BBC English, or, if you did, then you wouldn't be helping that child to learn; learning is not linear with respect to vocabulary or grammar; children will learn some words/grammar then backtrack for a while before incorporating the learnt grammar/vocab into all their speaking. 'Babytalk' is normal and vital for the child's learning. Thinglish is just crap...
    Interesting and thought provoking post BB, cheers. I haven't really thought about 'baby talk'. Hard to see myself saying "goo goo gaga daddy where mummy go?" haha

  6. #56
    Thailand Expat superman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9999
    Really? I think that's complete bollocks. Thais can usually sniff out a bar gir or ex bg from a mile away. My missus is more educated than 90% of the population and this shows in the way she conducts herself; Thais know. Obviously ignorant farangs don't. Get yer arse out of the gutter for a few minutes mate.__________________
    Read my post 9999. 'A 50/50 child will automatically be seen as being the result of a bar-girl and a farang'. I didn't mention sniffing out a bar-girl. I was refering to how a Thai stereotypes when a 50/50 child is seen without the mother. Get your head out your arse you daft cnut. Mate.
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  7. #57
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    ^ You;re saying any 'luk kreung' child will automatically be branded the child of a whore. It's bullshit. This is how Thais think? And in turn, you are saying Thais think mothers of luk kreungs are auto-whores. If you want daftness go read the majority of other TD threads and your own posts. Mate.
    Last edited by 9999; 04-06-2011 at 02:41 PM.

  8. #58
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    I'm not so sure about that either.

    The ones I've met didn't think so, the baby always showed up with the mother.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9999 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by superman
    A 50/50 child will automatically be seen as being the result of bar-girl and a farang.
    Really? I think that's complete bollocks. Thais can usually sniff out a bar gir or ex bg from a mile away. My missus is more educated than 90% of the population and this shows in the way she conducts herself; Thais know. Obviously ignorant farangs don't. Get yer arse out of the gutter for a few minutes mate.
    I think you might be giving "Thais" a bit too much credit there, 9999. There's a fine old pan-Asian tradition of looking askance at women who take up with foreigners, on top of which people here are going to weigh factors such as skin tone and facial features (does the woman look Khmer or Lao?) as much as they do demeanor in jumping to conclusions about how the loving couple met.

    More to the point of this thread, I hope, in a conformist society such as this one kids who are "different," such as look kreung, may face prejudice or bullying/teasing, especially once their age reaches double digits (little kids don't seem to notice). In Japan, which has much the same bi-polar attitude toward half (or "double" as is popular in some quarters) people, I have seen look kreung go to great lengths to play down their difference from others, including pretending in school that their English ability is not superior or refusing to speak English with the foreign parent in public. Not sure if that is going to turn out to be a problem here- my son's mom insists it will if he stays in Thai school, whereas one thing I noticed in Japan is that the more assertive the kid the less of a problem this is, and if my kid were any more assertive he'd have to be shackled. Come to think of it, I was a bit taken aback when some roughly 12-year-old Sino-Thai lard-asses in blue school uniforms started mocking my son speaking English to me at the playground in Benjasiri Park yesterday, although they quickly desisted after I spoke to them- perhaps it was the awfulness of my Thai pronunciation scared them away.

    Not entirely germane to this discussion, perhaps, but I am curious if anyone has noticed a stigma attached to the English ability of look kreung in an otherwise all-Thai environment. This could vary according to location, and also may not be as big a problem here as in Japan because of the enormous pressure to learn English there due to the outsize role it plays in the school curriculum (which obviously is the reason everyone in Japan speaks English so well ).
    “You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think.” Dorothy Parker

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 9999 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by superman
    A 50/50 child will automatically be seen as being the result of bar-girl and a farang.
    Really? I think that's complete bollocks. Thais can usually sniff out a bar gir or ex bg from a mile away. My missus is more educated than 90% of the population and this shows in the way she conducts herself; Thais know. Obviously ignorant farangs don't. Get yer arse out of the gutter for a few minutes mate.
    I think you might be giving "Thais" a bit too much credit there, 9999. There's a fine old pan-Asian tradition of looking askance at women who take up with foreigners, on top of which people here are going to weigh factors such as skin tone and facial features (does the woman look Khmer or Lao?) as much as they do demeanor in jumping to conclusions about how the loving couple met.

    More to the point of this thread, I hope, in a conformist society such as this one kids who are "different," such as look kreung, may face prejudice or bullying/teasing, especially once their age reaches double digits (little kids don't seem to notice). In Japan, which has much the same bi-polar attitude toward half (or "double" as is popular in some quarters) people, I have seen look kreung go to great lengths to play down their difference from others, including pretending in school that their English ability is not superior or refusing to speak English with the foreign parent in public. Not sure if that is going to turn out to be a problem here- my son's mom insists it will if he stays in Thai school, whereas one thing I noticed in Japan is that the more assertive the kid the less of a problem this is, and if my kid were any more assertive he'd have to be shackled. Come to think of it, I was a bit taken aback when some roughly 12-year-old Sino-Thai lard-asses in blue school uniforms started mocking my son speaking English to me at the playground in Benjasiri Park yesterday, although they quickly desisted after I spoke to them- perhaps it was the awfulness of my Thai pronunciation scared them away.

    Not entirely germane to this discussion, perhaps, but I am curious if anyone has noticed a stigma attached to the English ability of look kreung in an otherwise all-Thai environment. This could vary according to location, and also may not be as big a problem here as in Japan because of the enormous pressure to learn English there due to the outsize role it plays in the school curriculum (which obviously is the reason everyone in Japan speaks English so well ).
    Your post makes sense Robuzo though I don't think you give this Thai generation (the woman is 29) enough credit. In her social circles she's certainly not looked down on, though admittedly there is a bit of the 'snagging a farang' in there. Certainly back in the village there's cheers to her for snagging their first farang (though there is one other Jappo).

    I think in modern Thai society look kreungs are accepted and do not automatically trigger the thought "whoredem" when they see a look kreung kid. Missus has asolutely no concern about bullying or the like, but the kid will likely be educated in Australia anyway, where it's more likely, imo, to be an issue (bullying, racism etc).

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 9999 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by superman
    A 50/50 child will automatically be seen as being the result of bar-girl and a farang.
    Really? I think that's complete bollocks. Thais can usually sniff out a bar gir or ex bg from a mile away. My missus is more educated than 90% of the population and this shows in the way she conducts herself; Thais know. Obviously ignorant farangs don't. Get yer arse out of the gutter for a few minutes mate.
    I think you might be giving "Thais" a bit too much credit there, 9999. There's a fine old pan-Asian tradition of looking askance at women who take up with foreigners, on top of which people here are going to weigh factors such as skin tone and facial features (does the woman look Khmer or Lao?) as much as they do demeanor in jumping to conclusions about how the loving couple met.

    More to the point of this thread, I hope, in a conformist society such as this one kids who are "different," such as look kreung, may face prejudice or bullying/teasing, especially once their age reaches double digits (little kids don't seem to notice). In Japan, which has much the same bi-polar attitude toward half (or "double" as is popular in some quarters) people, I have seen look kreung go to great lengths to play down their difference from others, including pretending in school that their English ability is not superior or refusing to speak English with the foreign parent in public. Not sure if that is going to turn out to be a problem here- my son's mom insists it will if he stays in Thai school, whereas one thing I noticed in Japan is that the more assertive the kid the less of a problem this is, and if my kid were any more assertive he'd have to be shackled. Come to think of it, I was a bit taken aback when some roughly 12-year-old Sino-Thai lard-asses in blue school uniforms started mocking my son speaking English to me at the playground in Benjasiri Park yesterday, although they quickly desisted after I spoke to them- perhaps it was the awfulness of my Thai pronunciation scared them away.

    Not entirely germane to this discussion, perhaps, but I am curious if anyone has noticed a stigma attached to the English ability of look kreung in an otherwise all-Thai environment. This could vary according to location, and also may not be as big a problem here as in Japan because of the enormous pressure to learn English there due to the outsize role it plays in the school curriculum (which obviously is the reason everyone in Japan speaks English so well ).
    Your post makes sense Robuzo though I don't think you give this Thai generation (the woman is 29) enough credit. In her social circles she's certainly not looked down on, though admittedly there is a bit of the 'snagging a farang' in there. Certainly back in the village there's cheers to her for snagging their first farang (though there is one other Jappo).

    I think in modern Thai society look kreungs are accepted and do not automatically trigger the thought "whoredem" when they see a look kreung kid. Missus has asolutely no concern about bullying or the like, but the kid will likely be educated in Australia anyway, where it's more likely, imo, to be an issue (bullying, racism etc).

  12. #62
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    My stepson came to England when he was 8 and didn't speak a word of English. The school classed him as special needs and assigned a teaching assistant to him for a few hours a week for 2 years. He sat in the same lessons as all the other children. After 2 years he was rated as just below average at English and has continued to improve since then.

    I'm assuming that if he returns to Thailand as an adult he will have a massive advantage in finding jobs where English speaking is a requirement as he now speaks perfect English which I believe would be way above the standards of graduates. Does anyone else have experience of this?
    Last edited by BigRed; 04-06-2011 at 04:18 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed
    I'm assuming that if he returns to Thailand as an adult he will have a massive advantage in finding jobs where English speaking is a requirement as he now speaks perfect English which I believe would be way above the standards of graduates. Does anyone else have experience of this?
    Yes his English would be better than most English major graduates, but at the same time does he still read and write and speak Thai at an appropriate level for his age? Being bilingual and fluent is the key in the higher paying Thai job market.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9999 View Post
    Interesting and thought provoking post BB, cheers. I haven't really thought about 'baby talk'. Hard to see myself saying "goo goo gaga daddy where mummy go?" haha
    A lot of information in language comes from tonal structure. Baby talk is a good way of priming them and helping the language area of the brain develop, and also a good way of bonding with you.

  15. #65
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    ^ Cheers to you too Neo. My view on baby talk has changed after self-education prompted by comments in this thread. Baby talk yes. Tinglish NO.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo
    A lot of information in language comes from tonal structure. Baby talk is a good way of priming them and helping the language area of the brain develop, and also a good way of bonding with you.
    Baby talk in English!!! Yes you bet. Daddy waddy loves baby waby, and that kind of stuff to here the vowels and the sounds created by different voice lip and air usages. Describe everything you see as you drive, walk, stroll, everything. Include the little one in the conversations.

    Feed the kid at the dinner table nightly and use English as well. None if this running around in the street with a bowl of rice being spoon fed.

  17. #67
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    ^ Sage advice AO. Cheers.

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    I've had a long interest in languages, so multilingualism a thing I'm quite keen on.
    I keep nagging my puying to talk to them in Thai, and occasionally she does; but I end up having to teach them it, which is daft.
    The eldest can speak more French than Thai, which isn't ideal.

    I reckon music is a good way to go... learning songs was part of learning French at school, and made it more interesting than, say, Latin. Similarly, it was a love of music that drew me into learning Portuguese.

    I recently got my two eldest boys instruments, in the hope they'll get into it as their antecedents have done, and from there, maybe that and mixing with cousins who can't speak English, the seed might be sown.

    the youngest one has grabbed the electric guitar, and the eldest has rather quickly got into this thing - it's effing mint (got it on a "shop-soiled" discount):


    <-blatent advert really, but it shows stuff.

    it was meant to work out the other way round, but, this is their interest leading it; not me imposing it, and think that's the best way to go when it comes to learning anything... let them try things out and see what they enjoy the most, be it "things" or "techniques" - fun is everything.
    Last edited by CaptainNemo; 12-06-2011 at 04:49 AM.

  20. #70
    Thailand Expat CaptainNemo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robuzo View Post
    There's a fine old pan-Asian tradition of looking askance at women who take up with foreigners
    That's 'cos so many of them want to be european... you only have to look at their tv and advertising (not to mention excessive hair-dying and eyelid ops in Japan).

    It's a very thucked up legacy of Chinese culture of the lighter your skin the more indoors and thus higher paying or more sophisticated work you do, that goes back to the first emporer and beyond perhaps.

    it's odd... so many of them envy the good-looking eurasian sprogs, but when faced with an euro-immigrant ethnic group in their midst, the cultural difference outweighs that phenotype-envy - ask any Brazilian-Japanese in Japan, never mind the euro working classes in Thailand.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    One point to remember.

    Developing two languages in parallel takes longer on average, so don't worry if she does not speak when you think she should. It will come with time but processing two languages can take longer.
    I'm not sure on that Takeovers. My lad speaks Thai with his mum and English with me . He is taught in both at school and they teach him Chinese as well.
    I had the same worry but the school head assured me that at an early age kids find no difficulty and think and talk in more than one language if they know them.
    He also speaks "THinglish' sometimes and mixes the two together.
    I don't speak to him in Thai though as I learned my little bit in bars and maybe I use bad words? His mum speaks central though and maybe it's best he learn to speak the same.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickschoppers View Post
    That's my point. The ignorance comes from those who see this difference as inferior. As a westerner, I do not have the same generalizations that the Thais do and you should not either. If you count yourself in that group or are worried about what other people think, then you are ignorant.
    Maybe to quote -
    "Our children are the living arrows sent into the world from the living bow of our body . We loose them with care but can never change the winds of destiny"

    PC is all well and good but I won't put my lad at a disadvantage to serve that false master! He gets my best shot and I speak 'good' English with him , his mom speaks good Thai! Thailand has a well defined class system and I know which end of the food chain I want him to be despite my own counsel house start!

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanks
    I'm not sure on that Takeovers. My lad speaks Thai with his mum and English with me . He is taught in both at school and they teach him Chinese as well.
    A misunderstanding, I believe. I was talking about early development, the time until the first words and first full sentences are spoken. That may be delayed, after that it develops smoothly. And this delay cannot be quantified because the timing of early development is so different between different children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeovers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by swanks
    I'm not sure on that Takeovers. My lad speaks Thai with his mum and English with me . He is taught in both at school and they teach him Chinese as well.
    A misunderstanding, I believe. I was talking about early development, the time until the first words and first full sentences are spoken. That may be delayed, after that it develops smoothly. And this delay cannot be quantified because the timing of early development is so different between different children.
    Probably , knowing me, I get most things ass up!lol
    You seem to know your stuff , to be honest this is all new to me as my ex couldn't have kids!

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
    the eldest has rather quickly got into this thing - it's effing mint (got it on a "shop-soiled" discount): YouTube - ‪HandSonic 10 (2: Playing The Basic Patterns)‬‏
    That drum synth looks awesome. I've seen good fake drum kits but not that concept. Our kid will have music in it's blood from both sides. Maybe a 0st birthday present for our new daughter would be a good excuse to buy it as an educational aid so I can play it!

    Due date is mid-October. Excited and ready.

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