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  1. #1
    The cold, wet one
    November Rain's Avatar
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    'Gone Baby Gone' - a moral dilemna

    First of all, I should make this clear that this is inspired by a movie I've just watched (Gone Baby Gone) not by any real life incident.

    Basically, the story for anyone who hasn't seen it is a 3 yr old girl is abducted. Her aunt hires some private investigators to augment the police investigation. The mother is a lowlife; alcoholic, drug using, drug running, leaving the kid alone all the time or taking her to bars. She isn't too bothered by the abduction, figuring that it's in retaliation for $130,000 she stole from a drug dealer while acting as a mule. Anyway, seems the child is killed (drowned). Family mourns. Story goes on.

    Near the end, the investigator finds out that the child's uncle & members of the police were in on the abduction. The death was staged & the child is now living very happily with the retired head of the child abduction unit (police). The dilemna is: let the kid go on living with people who love & care for her & can provide for her, or destroy the police chief & his wife and give the kid back to the mother.

    Of course, he does the latter, and the mother goes back to her drinking and not caring for the kid. Only, it's worse, because the little girl now has no uncle & aunt to breach the gap in care.

    My view was leave her where she was, though I understand that's ethically & legally wrong.

    I'd be interested to see what anyone else thinks.

  2. #2
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    No question. Leave her where she was. Child's welfare should over ride all other considerations.

  3. #3
    On a walkabout
    Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Sometimes events in life, both good and bad govern one"s destiny.

    At the end of the day the childs best welfare should be main priority and in real life I would leave the child where she was receiving the better care and chance of a proper family life.

    Just goes to show that some people never deserve the rights and joy of being a parent.

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat Bugs's Avatar
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    If I were an individual that somehow got involved and found out what really happened, I would leave her with the retired officer. If I were an officer of the law and found out, I would turn him in.

    Once a person accepts a position as an officer of the law, they take an oath to uphold the law and do as the law says, not what they feel is best, or morally correct. IMHO that oath supersedes everything, otherwise it is too slippery a slope for other officers of the law to do what they think is best, as opposed to what they have been hired, trained, and paid to do.

    Sometimes the law does not make things turn out for the best, but we cannot allow or condone individual officers or departments of the law making those calls. Once that starts to happen the system starts to fall apart.
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion" - Steven Weinberg

  5. #5
    punk douche bag
    ChiangMai noon's Avatar
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    great movie.
    one of my favourites of last year.


    good debut for Ben Affleck as director.

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat jandajoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs
    Once that starts to happen the system starts to fall apart.
    IMHO

    If the system condones the returning of a child into an abusive environment it's already fallen apart.

  7. #7
    punk douche bag
    ChiangMai noon's Avatar
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    oh yeah they should have left the kid with Morgan Freeman.

    always thought he was a good egg.

  8. #8
    I am in Jail
    Texpat's Avatar
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    Two wrongs don't make a right. Allowing rogue policemen and "concerned" citizens to become vigilantes is a very bad idea.

    Why not do the right thing and arrest the mother for drug-using, drug-running child neglect/abuse and put the child in a safe environment -- legally?

    This presumes that drug use and trafficking are a crime in the country in question and they have a legal system that actually punishes criminals.

    Faking the death of a child might ruin her more than this method of protection.

    No-brainer. Gotta respect the laws.

  9. #9
    Member alphagirl's Avatar
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    I thought that movie was very thought provoking, best movie I've watched in a minute. I'd definitely leave her where she was at, not give her back to her crack whore of a mother...........

  10. #10
    Have you got any cheese Thetyim's Avatar
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    I would leave the kid where she is and blackmail the Chief of Police

  11. #11
    Thailand Expat BugginOut's Avatar
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    The whole situation is ludicrous, because there are steps to take to legally prove that the mother is unfit and for offering to adopt the child to provide a better life and future. Being that they are also aunt and uncle, I have to shoot this one down.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texpat View Post

    No-brainer. Gotta respect the laws.
    This is a question of Letter of the Law vs. the Spirit of the Law.
    America Only follows the Letter of the Law.
    I love Thailand because many people here understand the underlying principle of why the law was made and therefore you don't always have to obey the law.
    For instance jaywalking when no cars are around.
    That being said.
    Sadly in Thailand the pendulum has swung to the complete opposite side of the spectrum. I don't know any nation who has figured out how to balance law vs. justice. Most Justice systems are not about justice but ignorantly just follow the law.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    Sometimes events in life, both good and bad govern one"s destiny.

    At the end of the day the childs best welfare should be main priority and in real life I would leave the child where she was receiving the better care and chance of a proper family life.

    Just goes to show that some people never deserve the rights and joy of being a parent.
    Problem is nowadays you could be a violent pedo, neglect and abuse and slaughter and eat kids, but the pc nutters will protest in force for your right to bear more children.

    I watched the movie NR, and made two different decisions, my own and Hollywood's.

  14. #14
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    Takeovers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keda
    Most Justice systems are not about justice but ignorantly just follow the law.
    I once saw a local TV discussion with the Secretary of Justice in Berlin. She later became judge at the german Constitutional court.

    In opening the discussion she said:

    "To avoid misunderstanding, the judicial system is not about justice, it is about applying the laws."

    Really no more to be said about that, except I wouldn't know how to implement a better system without opoening the door to more abuse. Anything better would need judges who are trustworthy, impartial, just, humanitarian, and trusted by everybody. We will probably never achieve such a state.

    So yes, I do believe, that we cannot have a better system than blindly applying the law.



    Quote Originally Posted by keda
    I watched the movie NR, and made two different decisions, my own and Hollywood's.
    Great statement,

  15. #15
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Rain
    The mother is a lowlife; alcoholic, drug using, drug running, leaving the kid alone all the time or taking her to bars.
    Throw mama from the train!

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