The Thailand expat forum for Travel, Lifestyle and Fun.

kingwilly · 23-12-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stroller

One of the wise women in the neighbourhood reckoned she was unwittingly peeing on a spirit, and performed a ritual with burning charcoal to "clean" the illness causing "will" of this spirit from her body. Workeed as well, this did, auto-suggestion or whatever you may want to call it.

my (thai) missus thinks exactly the same thing - when travelling .. if i need to stop teh car by the roadside and relive myself - I MUST wai before doign so .....

stroller · 23-12-2006, 08:35 PM

^
Common sense, reallly, you farangs are a strange bunch, goodness knows why Buddha had you come over here.

Thai Wife · 24-12-2006, 04:33 AM

As you may already know, there are many spirit types living among us. Besides "PhraPhum", there is "ChaoThee" or Tah/Yai, Phu/Yah (ancestors), that Thais also respect. Some people build a place for this spirit inside their property, while some use one for the whole village.

All of these mentioned spirits are of the same type. They used to be human, but their soul didn't go anywhere when they died. As in the Buddhist belief, the soul was tied up with something here on earth before their last breath. Some of the spirits where humans sacrificed long ago for the pupose of protecting a region from enemies, or other ancient ceremonies.

The strength of this type of spirit could even be stronger than PhraPhum. If the cause of the death was unnatural, the spirit could be a very powerful one. Stroller already mentioned that they also have emotion. The only way to calm the spirit down is to give it what it needs.

When building a house for them, you need to have 4 legs on the house (6 legs in some areas). Normally it will be set into place at the same time with SaanPhraPhum. Again, the requirements vary according to the region.

These are samples from other regions:

Sorry! I could not find a picture for a communal house used for the entire village. There is one in my home village, but I have no picture. If any of you have pictures of any of these sights, please feel free to share them with us.

As a Holiday bonus - The following are the number of incense sticks used to pay homage to spirits:

1. For Buddha, use 3 sticks, 1st one repesenting the Lord Buddha, 2nd for Dhamma and 3rd for Buddhist Monk
2. Someone who has passed away, use 1 stick.
3. PhraPhum requires 9 sticks.
4. ChaThee or ancestor needs 5 sticks, but if he/she has servants, then you need to use 7 sticks.
5. PhraPhrom (Brahma), use 16 sticks, representing the 16th level of heaven.

keda · 24-12-2006, 06:52 AM

Good reading, excellent thread.

El Gibbon · 24-12-2006, 07:04 AM

TW
See, what a single post on Hillbillies thread can lead to? You've managed to educate quite a few (your choice) Farang.

Congratulations, another greenie.

E. G.

dirtydog · 24-12-2006, 08:03 PM

Had to sticky this thread as it actually explains to us heathens what this is all about, ok my house we have the spirit house facing North, I did assume this would be something the Monks done, but some old guy came and done it and then ran white cotton thru the groundfloor of the building, this was a bit of a worry as I have exposed live wires on the ground floor so had to talk him thru it so to speak, unfortuneately as my place is 6 storeys high the spirit house does get shadowed by it, not anything that can be done about that though

also I have a ,erm, spirit table? in the main living area, this one doesn't get much attention, infact I shall take a picture of the dust covered thing tomorrow, it is opposite our biggest tv, just thought I would mention that although it is probably not relevant, anyway so what is this one for if all the spirits are in what we call "our garden".

Thai Wife · 25-12-2006, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Had to sticky this thread as it actually explains to us heathens what this is all about, ok my house we have the spirit house facing North, I did assume this would be something the Monks done, but some old guy came and done it and then ran white cotton thru the groundfloor of the building, this was a bit of a worry as I have exposed live wires on the ground floor so had to talk him thru it so to speak, unfortuneately as my place is 6 storeys high the spirit house does get shadowed by it, not anything that can be done about that though also I have a ,erm, spirit table? in the main living area, this one doesn't get much attention, infact I shall take a picture of the dust covered thing tomorrow, it is opposite our biggest tv, just thought I would mention that although it is probably not relevant, anyway so what is this one for if all the spirits are in what we call "our garden".

If property space is not available, what can you do?. I've seen a spirit house on a balcony. My mother's shop has no space for one, so she puts it in the house with her. The spirits will have to understand and adapt to today's world, otherwise they might starve for the rest of their existance. I really think that by providing a place for them shows our acceptance - we cannot do more than our best. As long as we respect each other (the spirits and us), and regularly attend to them, they should not have any complaint.

This picture may explain it better than I can.

As you can see, there are other shadows crossing the path of this spirit house. Demonstrated here, is the Thai's belief in spirits, following convenience more than the written doctrine.

I know some people put a shrine on the rooftop of the building that has many stories, but that is for "PhraPhrom" (Brahma). It is the same as the one in front of the Erawan Hotel in Bangkok. PhraPhrom is one of the Hindu Gods, the creator of the Universe.

PhraPhum (PhraChaiMongKol) being the Guardian of the land must be on land, and cannot be on top of the roof. People will invite PhraProm (Brahma) to live there instead of PhraPhum.

As for the spirit table in your house, I am not sure what you have. I will wait for your pictures. Please also show pictures of your spirit house.

dirtydog · 25-12-2006, 04:54 PM

Here we have the spirit house in my miniture little garden/jungle.

dirtydog · 25-12-2006, 04:57 PM

And here is the one inside the house, got loads of tiny differant Budhha images on it.

Thai Wife · 25-12-2006, 08:41 PM

^
That is called "Hing Phra", the place where you put Buddha image(s) upon. No matter what location you choose for it, make sure that it faces north or northeast.

I see you also have "NangKwak" on it. Any other image placed on the Hing Phra, must be on a lower level than Buddha. You really should provide a different place for her, facing the door at your place of business. NangKwak is the daughter of "PuChaoKhaoKheow", the spirit who protects the forest. She is famous for bringing wealth to the business owner. With proper care for her, she can bring you more business. I can almost guarantee you will see her facing out, behind the cashier's counter, the next time you visit a restaurant.

dirtydog · 25-12-2006, 09:36 PM

I think the man statue is King Rama IV, the lady one I knew about but this is on the 4th floor, and it is pointing South so they can watch tv, if I remember rightly I suprised my girlfriend with it, didn't actually think about the placement, no wonder it is never cleaned or anything, luckily this floor is in much need of redocaration as is most of my place so that can easily be changed, also there are loads of tiny little Budhha images on it, Thai and Chinese, ok I have just had a look and there are about 50 of them, I normally buy her a few when I go away so she has a nice selection, supposedly some are antiques but I think that is probably more likely to get the gullible farang to buy them, ok tomorrow I shall give it all a clean and see what I can find in there, also seems to be a load of Thai bullet coins up there.

Thai Wife · 25-12-2006, 11:06 PM

I believe this to be a little off subject from Spirit Houses, so have started a new thread about "HingPhra".

Anonymous Coward · 25-12-2006, 11:09 PM

We had a Nang Kwak on our Hing Phra, but Ms. AC's Mom nicked it and took it to her shop; to bring in more customers, I guess.

When she was still around she sat on the base of the Hing Phra, but the two Buddha images were up on little raised platforms.

Thai Wife · 27-12-2006, 08:57 AM

I was not going to post this story until I had the pictures of the communal spirit house. But, it does not look like I will have any picture in the near future, so here we are.

The spirits for the entire village are called "TahPu", "PuTah" or ancestor in English. All of them have names, like the one near my Mother's house in Korat, named "PuIn".

Normally the house for the spirit of TahPu will be built on higher ground and toward the entrance of the village. The house would sit on 4 legs pole, gable roof, 2 meters wide, 3 meters long and approximately 1.5 meters in high. In side will contain the statue of an elephant, a house, and dolls of a man and woman. It is not unusual to find weapons, like a knife, sword or spear.

Giving a banquet to the spirit of TahPu is very important. People believe that TahPu will protect everyone in the village from all harm. Some take it very seriously, not allowing kids to play or make noise around the house of TahPu. If the spirit becomes annoyed by all the noise, he may make you sick. People will often ask for his protection when leaving from the village.

The banquet ceremony will begin after the SongKran festival. The villagers will come to Tahpu's house and start cleaning. A pig head, chicken, red and white KhaNomTom (Thai desert like dumpling), whisky, cigarettes and betel nut will be prepared.

His cloths and 3-5 small drums called "Tone" are also needed.

The important person for the ceremony is a medium, he/she may be accompanied by 2-4 followers. The ceremony will begin with beating on the drums (making music of course) until the spirit enters the medium. Next, the medium will start by wearing the prepared cloths, and then will begin to consume the food offering, by using the stick to pick through food and smell. The dancing may occur again after eating the food, or there may just be conversations between the spirit and the villagers. Some people will ask for the well being of a passed relative, while some will ask for a relative that lives in another Province. The spirit of TahPu then bestows blessings on everyone for well- being and prosperity, before leaving the medium's body.

Marmite the Dog · 27-12-2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thai Wife

No matter what location you choose for it, make sure that it faces north or northeast.

So, do all the Buddha images have to face north or northeast? My child-buddha faces southwest. Will I face eternal damnation in hell, or will I be blessed for giving the Lord Buddha a change of view?

And despite some of our suspicious members, I am not posting anything false or piss-taking about my Buddha statue.

Marmite the Dog · 27-12-2006, 10:54 PM

Did you see this thread, ThaiWife?

http://teakdoor.com/thailands-wats-t...n-phichit.html (The Shrine @ my home town (Phichit))

stroller · 27-12-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

So, do all the Buddha images have to face north or northeast? My child-buddha faces southwest.

In Mahayana Buddhism the historic Gautama Buddha was an incarnation of Amitayus, the Buddha facing the Western direction (there are five, one for each direction and one in the center), sitting in the lotus position with hands in his lap for meditating, and he is associated with the element of fire.
In Thailand, a Theravada country, I don't know the meaning of the directions.

Thaiwife?

Thai Wife · 28-12-2006, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmite the dog

So, do all the Buddha images have to face north or northeast? My child-buddha faces southwest. Will I face eternal damnation in hell, or will I be blessed for giving the Lord Buddha a change of view?

It mainly for the best of luck. The belief is that north and east are auspicious points. The word for north is Nua in Thai, and means above. The east is where the sun comes up, so that is the begining of light and pretty much explain itself. The west represents the darkness, the sun setting at that point, and is considered the time for evil. The word for south is Dtai in Thai, and means under. The conclusion is that if you would place anything holy or sacred, the best choice ranges between north and east.

As far as going to suffer in hell, it probably will happen anyway, but not from facing your baby Buddha to the southwest.

What I wrote is from what I was taught, and also from reference books, but I don't think they are that critical. If you are around older people that still maintain the ancient traditions, the stories will be worse. There is a lot more of do and don't, and I didn't really get to that part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmite the dog

Did you see this thread, ThaiWife?
http://teakdoor.com/thailands-wats-t...n-phichit.html (The Shrine [at] my home town (Phichit))

I'm sorry to say I missed seeing that thread. Sometimes there are too many things to look at on this Forum, and I often run out of time. (By the way, the food shown on GoW's post looks pretty good.)

Thai Wife · 28-12-2006, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stroller

In Thailand, a Theravada country, I don't know the meaning of the directions.
Thaiwife?

I gave some information above, but as I said, there are many do and don't stories.

I just thought of an interesting direction story. Again, north and east are good because of representing above, and the bringing of light. The west and south are bad because of representing the dark, and under.

My grandparents always warned us about laying down in the wrong direction. In old Thai tradition when laying down, you should position yourself so your head is to the north or east. This means anytime laying, not just sleeping.

When a Thai dies, and they are laid down, the head should be at the west. This is where all the ghosts are.

24-12-2006, 04:33 AM	#23 (permalink)
Thai Wife Koh Chang Last Online: 28-11-2008 12:37 AM Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 73	As you may already know, there are many spirit types living among us. Besides "PhraPhum", there is "ChaoThee" or Tah/Yai, Phu/Yah (ancestors), that Thais also respect. Some people build a place for this spirit inside their property, while some use one for the whole village. All of these mentioned spirits are of the same type. They used to be human, but their soul didn't go anywhere when they died. As in the Buddhist belief, the soul was tied up with something here on earth before their last breath. Some of the spirits where humans sacrificed long ago for the pupose of protecting a region from enemies, or other ancient ceremonies. The strength of this type of spirit could even be stronger than PhraPhum. If the cause of the death was unnatural, the spirit could be a very powerful one. Stroller already mentioned that they also have emotion. The only way to calm the spirit down is to give it what it needs. When building a house for them, you need to have 4 legs on the house (6 legs in some areas). Normally it will be set into place at the same time with SaanPhraPhum. Again, the requirements vary according to the region. These are samples from other regions: Sorry! I could not find a picture for a communal house used for the entire village. There is one in my home village, but I have no picture. If any of you have pictures of any of these sights, please feel free to share them with us. As a Holiday bonus - The following are the number of incense sticks used to pay homage to spirits: 1. For Buddha, use 3 sticks, 1st one repesenting the Lord Buddha, 2nd for Dhamma and 3rd for Buddhist Monk 2. Someone who has passed away, use 1 stick. 3. PhraPhum requires 9 sticks. 4. ChaThee or ancestor needs 5 sticks, but if he/she has servants, then you need to use 7 sticks. 5. PhraPhrom (Brahma), use 16 sticks, representing the 16th level of heaven. __________________ -Tuk To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

24-12-2006, 08:03 PM	#26 (permalink)
dirtydog The Dog Last Online: Today 04:47 PM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Pattaya Posts: 34,510	Had to sticky this thread as it actually explains to us heathens what this is all about, ok my house we have the spirit house facing North, I did assume this would be something the Monks done, but some old guy came and done it and then ran white cotton thru the groundfloor of the building, this was a bit of a worry as I have exposed live wires on the ground floor so had to talk him thru it so to speak, unfortuneately as my place is 6 storeys high the spirit house does get shadowed by it, not anything that can be done about that though also I have a ,erm, spirit table? in the main living area, this one doesn't get much attention, infact I shall take a picture of the dust covered thing tomorrow, it is opposite our biggest tv, just thought I would mention that although it is probably not relevant, anyway so what is this one for if all the spirits are in what we call "our garden". __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

23-12-2006, 08:35 PM	#22 (permalink)
stroller Kraut Last Online: 01-07-2008 11:03 AM Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: under the headphones Posts: 17,181	^ Common sense, reallly, you farangs are a strange bunch, goodness knows why Buddha had you come over here.

24-12-2006, 06:52 AM	#24 (permalink)
keda Senior Member Last Online: Today 04:45 PM Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,679	Good reading, excellent thread.

24-12-2006, 07:04 AM	#25 (permalink)
El Gibbon Elite Member Last Online: Today 02:53 PM Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Samut Phrakon Posts: 1,559	TW See, what a single post on Hillbillies thread can lead to? You've managed to educate quite a few (your choice) Farang. Congratulations, another greenie. E. G.

25-12-2006, 04:54 PM	#28 (permalink)
dirtydog The Dog Last Online: Today 04:47 PM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Pattaya Posts: 34,510	Here we have the spirit house in my miniture little garden/jungle.

25-12-2006, 04:57 PM	#29 (permalink)
dirtydog The Dog Last Online: Today 04:47 PM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Pattaya Posts: 34,510	And here is the one inside the house, got loads of tiny differant Budhha images on it.

25-12-2006, 08:41 PM	#30 (permalink)
Thai Wife Koh Chang Last Online: 28-11-2008 12:37 AM Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 73	^ That is called "Hing Phra", the place where you put Buddha image(s) upon. No matter what location you choose for it, make sure that it faces north or northeast. I see you also have "NangKwak" on it. Any other image placed on the Hing Phra, must be on a lower level than Buddha. You really should provide a different place for her, facing the door at your place of business. NangKwak is the daughter of "PuChaoKhaoKheow", the spirit who protects the forest. She is famous for bringing wealth to the business owner. With proper care for her, she can bring you more business. I can almost guarantee you will see her facing out, behind the cashier's counter, the next time you visit a restaurant.

25-12-2006, 09:36 PM	#31 (permalink)
dirtydog The Dog Last Online: Today 04:47 PM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Pattaya Posts: 34,510	I think the man statue is King Rama IV, the lady one I knew about but this is on the 4th floor, and it is pointing South so they can watch tv, if I remember rightly I suprised my girlfriend with it, didn't actually think about the placement, no wonder it is never cleaned or anything, luckily this floor is in much need of redocaration as is most of my place so that can easily be changed, also there are loads of tiny little Budhha images on it, Thai and Chinese, ok I have just had a look and there are about 50 of them, I normally buy her a few when I go away so she has a nice selection, supposedly some are antiques but I think that is probably more likely to get the gullible farang to buy them, ok tomorrow I shall give it all a clean and see what I can find in there, also seems to be a load of Thai bullet coins up there.

25-12-2006, 11:06 PM	#32 (permalink)
Thai Wife Koh Chang Last Online: 28-11-2008 12:37 AM Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 73	I believe this to be a little off subject from Spirit Houses, so have started a new thread about "HingPhra".

25-12-2006, 11:09 PM	#33 (permalink)
Anonymous Coward Royal Barges Last Online: 20-04-2007 08:55 PM Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ratsima - The Bakersfield of LoS Posts: 945	We had a Nang Kwak on our Hing Phra, but Ms. AC's Mom nicked it and took it to her shop; to bring in more customers, I guess. When she was still around she sat on the base of the Hing Phra, but the two Buddha images were up on little raised platforms.

27-12-2006, 08:57 AM	#34 (permalink)
Thai Wife Koh Chang Last Online: 28-11-2008 12:37 AM Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 73	I was not going to post this story until I had the pictures of the communal spirit house. But, it does not look like I will have any picture in the near future, so here we are. The spirits for the entire village are called "TahPu", "PuTah" or ancestor in English. All of them have names, like the one near my Mother's house in Korat, named "PuIn". Normally the house for the spirit of TahPu will be built on higher ground and toward the entrance of the village. The house would sit on 4 legs pole, gable roof, 2 meters wide, 3 meters long and approximately 1.5 meters in high. In side will contain the statue of an elephant, a house, and dolls of a man and woman. It is not unusual to find weapons, like a knife, sword or spear. Giving a banquet to the spirit of TahPu is very important. People believe that TahPu will protect everyone in the village from all harm. Some take it very seriously, not allowing kids to play or make noise around the house of TahPu. If the spirit becomes annoyed by all the noise, he may make you sick. People will often ask for his protection when leaving from the village. The banquet ceremony will begin after the SongKran festival. The villagers will come to Tahpu's house and start cleaning. A pig head, chicken, red and white KhaNomTom (Thai desert like dumpling), whisky, cigarettes and betel nut will be prepared. His cloths and 3-5 small drums called "Tone" are also needed. The important person for the ceremony is a medium, he/she may be accompanied by 2-4 followers. The ceremony will begin with beating on the drums (making music of course) until the spirit enters the medium. Next, the medium will start by wearing the prepared cloths, and then will begin to consume the food offering, by using the stick to pick through food and smell. The dancing may occur again after eating the food, or there may just be conversations between the spirit and the villagers. Some people will ask for the well being of a passed relative, while some will ask for a relative that lives in another Province. The spirit of TahPu then bestows blessings on everyone for well- being and prosperity, before leaving the medium's body.

27-12-2006, 10:54 PM	#36 (permalink)
Marmite the Dog Too drunk to fuck Last Online: Today 04:45 PM Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Fuckwitistan Posts: 25,940	Did you see this thread, ThaiWife? http://teakdoor.com/thailands-wats-t...n-phichit.html (The Shrine @ my home town (Phichit))

28-12-2006, 10:08 PM	#40 (permalink)
stroller Kraut Last Online: 01-07-2008 11:03 AM Join Date: Mar 2006 Locat