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  1. #26
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    I am an avid fan of all things wild. I am happy to know that the Thai Tigers still exist. I visited a reserve south of Hua Hin and was told that all Siamese Tigers are now extinct, perhaps that was just in that particular reserve.

    I've also visited the Khao Yai reserve and that is amazing except for the massive road built through the middle of it. However perhaps that works as a way to keep it a national park on the David Bellamy theory of what ever it takes to keep wildlife wild.

    I am happy to know there are people able to do something to help. I have ended up as a chemical engineer, not really sure why, either way my first love was for this sort of stuff and I just did not see how zoology would help this. Any way this is all food for thought,

    what kind of work are you doing? How are you helping with the conservation? do you have any suggestions on what I could do ? oh well its all food for thought for me, these photos are good news as far as I'm concerned.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooble View Post
    I am an avid fan of all things wild. I am happy to know that the Thai Tigers still exist. I visited a reserve south of Hua Hin and was told that all Siamese Tigers are now extinct, perhaps that was just in that particular reserve.

    I've also visited the Khao Yai reserve and that is amazing except for the massive road built through the middle of it. However perhaps that works as a way to keep it a national park on the David Bellamy theory of what ever it takes to keep wildlife wild.

    I am happy to know there are people able to do something to help. I have ended up as a chemical engineer, not really sure why, either way my first love was for this sort of stuff and I just did not see how zoology would help this. Any way this is all food for thought,

    what kind of work are you doing? How are you helping with the conservation? do you have any suggestions on what I could do ? oh well its all food for thought for me, these photos are good news as far as I'm concerned.
    Wobble,

    I'm surprised someone told you tigers were extinct in the forests west of Hua Hin. Actually, Kaeng Krachan and Kui Buri national parks have the second best population and ecosystems allowing the tiger to breed in Thailand. However, tiger numbers are still low due to human ills like poaching and encroachment.

    Khao Yai National Park may still have a few but next door in Thap Lan NP, it is confirmed that there are quite a few tigers by extensive camera-trapping to determine a population undertaken by 'Freeland', a Bangkok based NGO.

    I am a wildlife photographer visiting as many reserves in the country as possible to record the species that remain. I have published three books on wildlife (English and Thai) and do slide presentations at universities, schools, ranger training courses and other venues. I also have a monthly colume for the Bangkok Post on the last Monday of every month. I continue to fight for the rights of wild animals and their ecosystems as they are truly worth saving.

    I'm not sure where you live and it would be difficult to advise you on what you could do. However, keep up with TD as I will be posting many more threads on the subject. There is still hope that Thailand will improve the dire situation concerning their natural resources before it is too late.

  3. #28
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    Since this thread is about tigers.
    I was just wondering, what is the succes rate of introducing tigers back into the wild?
    There seems to be plenty held in captivity like in the tiger temple located in `Kan and until recently also in Sri Racha Zoo.
    I seem to recall that the Tiger Temple in Kanchanaburi boasting an objective about reintroducing tigers into the wild, eventually.
    But this temple seems to have evolved into a money making machine and nothing else.
    I can image that the tiger gene pool in these locations have been somewhat "polluted" by interbreeding and such.
    Maybe not the most desired specimens for reintroducing into the wild?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pescator View Post
    Since this thread is about tigers.
    I was just wondering, what is the succes rate of introducing tigers back into the wild?
    There seems to be plenty held in captivity like in the tiger temple located in `Kan and until recently also in Sri Racha Zoo.
    I seem to recall that the Tiger Temple in Kanchanaburi boasting an objective about reintroducing tigers into the wild, eventually.
    But this temple seems to have evolved into a money making machine and nothing else.
    I can image that the tiger gene pool in these locations have been somewhat "polluted" by interbreeding and such.
    Maybe not the most desired specimens for reintroducing into the wild?
    Pescator,

    Unfortunately, it would almost be impossible to reintroduce the tiger in Thailand, especially from the temple in Kanchanaburi or the zoo in Sri Racha. These establishments are running for one thing only; making money. Both have been involved in scandals concerning sending tigers abroad for other zoo operations. These two are truly an eye sore, especially the temple. I have made two visits here working with a foreign film crew and left in disgust never to return.

    The Department of National Parks has a few breeding centers with tigers but it is not known what their mandate is. They recently reintroduced Eld's deer into Huai Kha Khaeng which has turned into a flop. Only a few (less than a handful) of the original group remain and they hang around the headquarters area. The rest have been taken by carnivores.

    The difficulty of releasing tigers bred in captivity is ten-fold. The first is how good is the tiger gene pool? The area for reintroduction would need to be loaded with prey species, and totally protected without any interferance from the outside. The program would need to be closely monitored from the beginning. Just the fesability study would be intense. I can't see it happening here. More doom and gloom but unfortunately, the facts!

    The only answer to save the tiger is to protect the remaining habitat at 100 percent where the big cat remains. If poachers and encroachment is absolutely stopped, they will breed naturally and numbers will increase. There are several areas that meet these requirements. It's that simple.

  5. #30
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    the politicans can surely do something here, but again they don't seem to care .

    it's a crime that deserves a maximum sentence
    and restaurants should be threatened with closure if they sell any part of the tiger or any endangered species.
    excellent post.
    it's our heritage and should be protected whatever the cost.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy the kid View Post
    the politicans can surely do something here, but again they don't seem to care .

    it's a crime that deserves a maximum sentence
    and restaurants should be threatened with closure if they sell any part of the tiger or any endangered species.
    excellent post.
    it's our heritage and should be protected whatever the cost.
    Billy the Kid,

    Unfortunately, it's the politicians that call the shots and make the laws, many for their own benefit. The restaurants are usually run by police, army, politicians (locally and nationwide) and rich influential types (retired government officials and other rift-raft). It's a royal pain in the butt how these establishments continue unabated. I boil when I know about one but if you blow the whistle, it could come back to haunt you; the quirks of living in Thailand.

    My biggest worry is by the time they get their stuff together, it might be too late. Thanks for the kind words. I'll be posting another two tiger threads very soon.

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    hope you dont mind me adding this news article about Javan Tigers to your thread.

    On the prowl for answers
    16 JULY 2010 TATE ZANDSTRA
    A journalist hunts for the extinct Javan tiger, while the Sumatran tiger struggles to avoid the same fate.
    “I remember the Java situation because it raised a lot of interest, and many more questions than answers."

    A cup of sweet coffee steams in conservationist Deb Martyr's hand and a cool, early morning breeze carrying the fresh scent of the jungle blows into her living room in Sumatra's Kerinci Seblat National Park.

    “The alleged victim,” Martyr continued, "was unknown, and very few women go climbing volcanoes alone, even in Java.”

    In November 2008 reports emerged of a woman attacked and killed by a tiger in a national park in Java. Shortly thereafter, fresh tracks were recorded by authorities, who confirmed that they were indeed instigated by tigers. The reports were shocking, not so much because an anonymous hiker was killed by a tiger in a rural area, but because the Javan tiger has been considered extinct for the last three decades.

    Could there still be tigers in Java, and was a tiger really responsible for the hiker's death? Perhaps Deb Martyr, one of the foremost conservationists in Sumatra, could provide some answers. Martyr, a London newspaper reporter who came to Kerinci pursuing a story, fell in love with the beautiful volcanic terrain and the tigers that live deep within the darkness of the forest. That was 16 years ago, and she has been here fighting for the animals and jungle ever since.

    “I think it is remotely possible that there is the odd tiger in Java, but they would most likely be escapees from private collections – some very foolish people think they can keep tigers as pets.”

    Leopards, Martyr says, are also often mistaken for tigers when seen in the wild.

    “Indonesian is a language which can, on occasion, be less than specific ... lay people are often prone to calling any big cat harimau (tiger).”

    Still, the rumoured sightings persist. Martyr knows a man who, while hunting pigs in East Java only months ago, swears to have seen a tiger, which killed one of his dogs.

    “He's an educated guy, and he's seen tigers and leopards in zoos before.”

    Of the eight subspecies of tiger in the world, Indonesia was home to three. The Bali and Javan are now extinct. It is difficult to determine how many Sumatran tigers remain, but estimates range from 300-400.

    Kerinci is probably the most suitable remaining tiger habitat in all of Indonesia, but it is beset by deforestation caused by illegal encroachment of small rice cultivators or huge palm oil plantations, which are preceded by clear-cut loggers. The tiger itself is targeted heavily by poachers who catch the cats in snares, then sell their skins, teeth, claws, and bones for upwards of $2,000 on the black market.

    The next day I ride through the misty river valleys and over the brilliant sunny peaks of Kerinci with one of the Tiger Protection and Conservation Units employed by Martyr and Fauna and Flora International (FFI). We stop in a valley on the park’s edge to check live tiger traps. The rangers show me tracks of a female with two cubs striding off into the bush.

    “Human health and livelihood is at risk ... not just tigers.” Zoe Cullen says at FFI headquarters. “There is a mosaic of patchy deforestation … It's about a species, but also what that species represents; deforestation.”

    Cullen works with local organisations to educate villagers on the consequences of destructive land use. The thick forests of Sumatra, she explains, trap rainwater and allow it to trickle slowly into rivers and lakes. Deforestation and palm oil and coffee plantations which are eroding the edges of national parks alter the hydrology of the areas, causing flooding, then drought.

    “The encroachers come from far away, but the people who have been here for generations have some awareness of land management.” The most important work foreign NGOs can do, she says, is to educate local political and environmental groups.

    For an example of Sumatran environmental degradation look no further than Jambi. The provincial capital is an eyesore of open sewers and new construction. Diesel spewing logging and cement trucks rumble by day and night on traffic choked, treeless streets.

    Pak Didi Wurjanto, the head of ecotourism in Jambi province, is a busy man and gets directly to the point of our meeting. “Right now, everyone regards the tiger as a threat ... I have limited manpower, limited cages, and a limited budget ... I can't catch every tiger in the forest.”

    Just that morning, Wurjanto tells me, a government official called and said that he has a tiger which he wants Wurjanto to take off his hands, having found that an adult tiger is an expensive and dangerous status symbol.

    Wurjanto has to work entirely within diplomatic channels, he explains to me. “I have proposed to the minister ways to save the tiger; if rich people want to keep them, the government will give permission, but they must provide tourist facilities, and allow the government to monitor the tiger’s health.”

    Wurjanto says that there are also people keeping tigers in both Java and Sumatra illegally. “There is no other clear and clean areas to put the tiger where we can protect them from poachers and cause people to see them as part of the ecosystem, not the enemy.”

    Large and cool under the sprawling canopy of trees, Jambi’s zoo is filled with the sounds of birdsong. Two Sumatran tigers live within a grassy and shady, but painfully small enclosure. There were three tigers here previously, but last year someone snuck in at night and shot one of the cats, skinning it on site.

    It is depressing to think of Wurjanto's prediction that one day there will be no wild place for these beautiful and majestic animals to roam.

    Yogyakarta, Java was once the seat of power for the Hindu Majapahit Empire, which ruled the island prior to the advent of Islam. Most tourists come here to see the temple complexes left by the long extinct civilisation. A couple of hours away by motorbike tower the twin volcanic peaks of Merapi and Merbabu, the site of the alleged attack.

    Christian Awuy leads search and rescue operations in the area, and knows the terrain better than anyone. The volcanoes are treacherous, and his expertise is constantly required. Awuy sits down in his office, a room plastered with topograhical maps and photos of Merapi billowing ash.

    “I have seen panthers, but never tigers, and the panthers only three or four times in 24 years.”

    Awuy says that he doesn't believe tigers are lurking in the area, but seems hopeful at the suggestion that leopards may be increasing in numbers.

    “Two years ago, at a conference in Ujung Kulon (northwest Java) I saw a tiger, just for a couple seconds, but it was definitely a tiger.”

    Around the massive lower slopes of the volcanoes lies Pakis, the village where the tiger attack is supposed to have taken place. At first unsure what it is that I am looking for, the police warm up soon enough and, laughing, begin showing photos of bodies pulled out of the jungle nearby.

    The cause of death, as well as the identity of the “tiger attack” victim, says Chief Dedhi Purwono, remains officially unknown. People go into the jungle and just don't come back sometimes. Chief Purwono suspects that the death was the result of an injury sustained somewhere in the bush. Unable to hike back out, the woman may have died of exposure, then consumed partly by scavengers.

    When I show him the newspaper article which blamed the death on a tiger, he only laughs, saying that it was a rumour begun by the woman who found the body, and certainly not supported by the police.

    It seems an anticlimactic end to a mystery, and a reminder that the Javan tiger is extinct, but the episode has also pointed to people working hard to ensure the Sumatran tiger does not suffer a similar fate.

    Such a feat will require a massive change in land use practices, and a huge effort on the part of Indonesian authorities to stop illegal land clearing and poaching of not only the tiger, but the prey it depends upon.

    The tide is shifting, however. Wurjanto says one government official recently incinerated his tiger pelts because of his guilt. Increasingly, Sumatrans savvy in politics and science are joining the conservation movement and educating people about the consequences of killing tigers and destroying the ecology on which everyone depends.

    With enough protection, funding, and patience, Deb Martyr says tiger populations can recover all over Sumatra.
    http://www.sea-globe.com/southeast-a...wl-for-answers

  8. #33
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    Fascinating posts, great pictures, and heart-breaking facts and figures. It does need pressure to be put on the politicians, but as Bruce so rightly told us, most of the "benefactors" are politicians and the likes. It is also an international problem, and that is where the pressure on governments should - and must - come from. Are the authorities of 'world life protection' strong enough to influence governments? It would appear that they are not. I know very little about the matter, but found the postings most informative and sad. Thanks to both Bruce and "Wilson" for their contribution.

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    Sadly, the Javan tiger is extinct in the wild even if a few sightings are recorded from time to time. It would be great if they found a pocket somewhere with the predator. However, it is not genetically feasible for them to survive with the limited numbers. Sumatra like Thailand and Malaysia have a few breeding populations but that requires extreme measures of protection and enforcement for the future of the tiger. These host countries are plagued by poor management and poaching driven primarily by the Chinese medicine trade and bush meat vendors. When the killing stops, all forms of wildlife will prosper. It's that simple.

    For the rest of Southeast Asia including Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Southern China, tigers are in real trouble with very few left. Burma may have some but like all countries in the region, the tiger's survival is on the balance of nature ready to fall off.

    Unfortunately, too much time and money has been wasted by too many organizations talking about saving tigers and their habitats, with very little actually being done. Only true protection by some dedicated people will slow the destruction of nature’s precious wildlife and wilderness areas. It is hoped the tiger and the leopard, will continue to survive as they have for millions of years.

    The up-coming head of state tiger meeting in mid-September at St. Petersburg in Russia should pass some real constructive proposals on saving the tiger, or it may not see the next 'Year of the Tiger'. Some will disagree with that, but until things really improve, the big cat is in serious trouble.
    Last edited by Bruce Kekule; 27-07-2010 at 05:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarnacleBill View Post
    Fascinating posts, great pictures, and heart-breaking facts and figures. It does need pressure to be put on the politicians, but as Bruce so rightly told us, most of the "benefactors" are politicians and the likes. It is also an international problem, and that is where the pressure on governments should - and must - come from. Are the authorities of 'world life protection' strong enough to influence governments? It would appear that they are not. I know very little about the matter, but found the postings most informative and sad. Thanks to both Bruce and "Wilson" for their contribution.
    BarnacleBill,

    Thank you for your comments and concerns. It is sad, but there is light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. If those organizations that are responsible for the survival of the tiger and their habitats would really get their act together quickly, the big cats would have a chance. Thailand only has a few locations that have tigers in good numbers and they really need to concentrate on those forests protecting them to the fullest. I'm hoping the Department of National Parks will take further steps to increase ranger personnel and upgrade their rank and benefits in order to create more incentive and protection of Thailand's natural heritage. It is truly worth saving for the present and future generations.

  11. #36
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    Just watched a documentary from the Kaeng Krachan NP.
    Wild life photographer was Alan Rabinowitz.
    Of the 10 camera traps he put up, 6 were removed and attempts were made to destroy one that was secured with a wire to a tree.
    Only 3 cams escaped the attention of the perps, poachers most likely.
    The remaining cameras did however manage to get some nice shots of tigers.

    His overall conclusions concerning the tigers in this area were very much in sync with those of yours.

  12. #37
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    Tiger population 'falls to lowest level since records began'

    Tiger numbers are at lowest level since records began, with conservationists warning that the world has 12 years to save the species.

    The WWF announced today that the wild tiger population has now fallen as low as 3,200, down from an estimated 100,000 in 1900.

    The big cat, which is native to southern and eastern Asia, could soon become extinct unless urgent action is taken to prevent hunting and loss of habitat, the charity’s experts warned.

    Tiger population 'falls to lowest level since records began' - Telegraph

    If the world can't get it together to save this magnificent animal from extinction, well theres fcuk all we can do about anything really.
    probes Aliens

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    Quote Originally Posted by pescator
    Just watched a documentary from the Kaeng Krachan NP.
    Is that the evolution and extinction documentary? Did you see it on the TV or through the net? I have always wanted to see that as its referenced in the WCS Tiger report.
    Last edited by pangsida; 04-08-2010 at 01:11 PM.

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    I believe so, it covered a lot of areas. It was brought by Clear Blue Sky Productions and Wildlife Conservation Society was also mentionened in the credits.
    Watched it on TV in my region.

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    Many thanks, I think I have found it now, PBS are rerunning it as "Evolution".

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    I have known Alan Rabinowitz for more than a decade. He is not a wildlife photographer but a wildlife researcher using camera-traps to estimate presence/absence of all the cryptic species found in Asia. He has published three books attributed to this research. 'Chasing the Dragon's Tail' is about his exploits in Thailand and is available from Amazon.

    I have seen the 'Evolution' program quite a few years ago. WCS-Thailand actually did the camera-trap survey loosing eight cameras along the Phetchaburi River in a one month period. Apparently, the Thai Army out on patrol decided these should not be in the forest and confiscated a few with some lost to poachers. Two were trashed by elephants. Of the remaining 30 some cameras set in many locations within the park, more than 30 species of mammal were captured on film. I have seen these photos including elelphant, gaur, banteng (rare here), tiger, leopard, tapir and more.

    Frankly, the only downside to this TV program was; they play acted the loss of one camera chopping a big bamboo tree down several months after the real thefts had actually happened. This idea came from the local director of the WCS office but gave the Department of National Parks a headache, and WCS lost some face over this. Alan and I discussed it while he was in Bangkok later. I also know these facts because I was on the ground in Kaeng Krachan at the time. I lost three cameras myself in the upper-Phechaburi to poachers and pulled-out due to poor patrolling and lot's of poacher activity.

    But I must say that Alan is a real professional and a friend of mine, and we share the same opinions concerning the present conditions and what needs to be done. However frustrating it sometimes seems, we both believe it is worth the fight.
    Last edited by Bruce Kekule; 06-08-2010 at 10:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kekule View Post
    But I must say that Alan is a real professional and a friend of mine, and we share the same opinions concerning the present conditions and what needs to be done. However frustrating it sometimes seems, we both believe it is worth the fight.
    His story about the face-to-face with a jaguar is classic. No time to track it down on the Internets, probably reproduced somewhere.

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    great post !!!
    animals are also part of the world.if they live we will live and if they die that will be the beginning of the ending of the world.
    hunting of the animals should be banned.

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    Just checked and all three books by Alan Rabinowitz are available on Amazon. They do make good ready for those into nature and real-life adventures. His third book is about work in the far reaches of northern Burma entitled 'Beyond the last village'.
    Last edited by Bruce Kekule; 06-08-2010 at 10:25 PM.

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    Today there is an article in Bangkok post about the arrest of some tiger poachers. Unfortunately it doesn't take very many poachers and traders to wipe out tigers from the few protected areas where they still exist.
    This is how most tigers in Indochina have ended up:
    Bangkok Post : Suspects arrested for killing three tigers

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    Despicable!
    It is not only a crime against the animal kingdom, but also against mankind.
    What kind of a world do we want to leave to our children?
    A world only inhabited by rodents and cockroaches?

    If it is not possible to protect one of the most magnificent creatures on this earth, one of the symbols of Asia, then there is indeed little hope of maintaining the biodiversity in general.

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    Most excellent, however, saddening thread, Bruce. It's difficult to think of a proper comment to make concerning the potential loss of another cherished species from our world.

    Mankind seems to be at major crossroads on many seemingly divergent fronts. Alas, the changes in ideas required of our race to create beneficial life for all . . . human, animal, mother earth and otherwise . . . may be too radical of a departure from our currently accepted, well-worn yet poorly served, beliefs.

    I best stop now before I speak too much of my mind. But your efforts are greatly applauded from my end. Cheers, Bruce.
    - Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
    - Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing.
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    Far from being an endangered species, Lawrence Bruce Kekule has made the Thailand Tatler 'expat 300 list'.

    LAWRENCE KEKULE | Thailand Tatler Magazine - The Spirit of High Society

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    Tiger Temple


    Thailand is one of just 13 countries hosting fragile tiger populations and is a hub of international smuggling.
    Picture: AFP

    telegraph.co.uk

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