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  1. #1
    Thailand Expat misskit's Avatar
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    NACC clears Yingluck of mismanagement of 2011 flooding



    The National Anti-Corruption Commission has cleared former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra of alleged mismanagement of water resources leading to major flooding in 2011 which caused over 350 billion baht damages, NACC chairman Pol Gen Watcharapol Prasarnrajkit said on Wednesday (Sept 13).

    Pol Gen Watcharapol said the NACC has passed a resolution to clear Ms Yingluck of the allegation.
    The NACC found Ms Yingluck had properly followed the administrative procedures in handling the floods.

    The anti-graft agency is of the opinion of natural disasters are not predictable, while there was no evidence of malfeasance in the handling of the massive flooding, he added.

    Pol Gen Watcharapol said details of the NACC resolution will be outlined by the NACC spokesman.

    NACC clears Yingluck of mismanagement of 2011 flooding - Thai PBS English News
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  2. #2
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    Good, she can come back now.

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    Member HuangLao's Avatar
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    How does one mismanaged natural occurring floods?

    As such events aren't of a human-induced political nature. it just is.

  4. #4
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    The 2011 BKK floods were caused by mismanagement but that cant be laid at her door.

    The major dams were left full after the 2010 floods so when the heavy rains came in 2011 the dams quickly reached critical level and water had to be released, it was this release that brought the surge of water that flooded BKK.

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    Member HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birding View Post
    The 2011 BKK floods were caused by mismanagement but that cant be laid at her door.

    The major dams were left full after the 2010 floods so when the heavy rains came in 2011 the dams quickly reached critical level and water had to be released, it was this release that brought the surge of water that flooded BKK.

    Yet, flooding occurs every year somewhere in the country - be it broad or localized - such is the natural cycles.
    Has nothing to do with politics or blame thereof.


    If such petty blame were to be cast, point the finger at those whom insist on cementing over natural flood plains and degrading the klong systems.

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    The construction of Suwanabhumi is to be blamed for not allowing the flood spread up into the huge area as before.
    Wondering, who has profited from the construction, especially from the land fill?

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    I'll offer a slightly different perspective.

    Relatives (her side) have a Farm which is south of Swampy and their local little Klong runs off the main one which diverts/drains to the right of Swampy (when looking at an aerial map).

    While many parts of Thailand were in flood, parts, to the south east of Bangkok was certainly not flooding.

    So much so that the Farm Klong, which is normally navigable, was close to dry !

    The flood waters which should have been overflowing never reached that Farm.


    The implication is that those same flood waters weren't approaching Swampy and were being held back upstream and flooding north/north-west and west of Bangkok.

    I'm not a hydrologist, but I believe a reasonable summation based on the water flows observed.

    IMHO
    Perspective is everything ... it's the difference between going through an ordeal or going through an adventure..

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    In 2010 the river topped out at only a few CM below the peak in 2011 yet there was no flooding in BKK as per 2011. While flooding is normal most years in 2011 it was exceptional, I have already explained why.

    I live directly across a road from the CP river so I have an interest in what the river is doing, this year so far the high point has been 10.5m it is now down to 9.9m. last year it topped out at 11.25m at the end of September, in both 2010 and 2011 it was over 13m.

    There are those who are charged with water management and when they make bad mistakes (as with anything else) they need to be held accountable so it is not 'petty blame'. The NACC have said the 2011 floods were no fault of Yingluck and I agree. However there was human error involved and to prevent the same thing happening again why it happened needs to be looked at.

  9. #9
    Harbinger of Doom

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    I can't remember the intricacies of all this now but the rains were exceptionally heavy in 2011 (almost twice normal where I live). If the rains had been normal that year, would floods have happened? Could officials reasonably have forecast that level of rain? I don't know what the answers to those are but it's easy to slip (wrongly) from someone's actions causing flooding to somebody being culpable for the flooding. Ulitmately, of course, building your capital and much of your industrial and commercial heartland on a flood plain within a metre or two of sea-level was, in hindsight, a spectacularly stupid thing to do.

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    We are discussing a specific flood in BKK in 2011 there were heavy rains in both 2010 and 2011 I have already told you the river level was very similar in both those years and explained why there was flooding in BKK in 2011 and not 2010.

    Flooding used to be welcomed by farmers along major rivers for it brought water to their paddies and deposited a layer of silt that acted as a fertilizer for their crop but as populations grew and towns and cities were built along river banks walls were built to prevent them flooding and now the farmers dont get the annual floods so have to rely on irrigation and buy fertilizer.

    As more and more walls are built to protect populations the river is restricted and bottle-necked which only increases flooding in unprotected areas. Unfortunately no going back to natures solutions to excessive (or annual) rainfalls.

  11. #11
    Harbinger of Doom

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    there were heavy rains in both 2010 and 2011
    In 2011, rainfall in the north was much heavier.

    I have already told you the river level was very similar in both those years and explained why there was flooding in BKK in 2011 and not 2010.
    I know what you've said. But that has nothing to do with culpability.

    Unfortunately no going back to natures solutions to excessive (or annual) rainfalls.
    That's the only solution. The only question is whether we adpat sensibly to this reality or wait until reality forces our hand.

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    Member HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passing Through View Post
    In 2011, rainfall in the north was much heavier.



    I know what you've said. But that has nothing to do with culpability.







    That's the only solution. The only question is whether we adpat sensibly to this reality or wait until reality forces our hand.

    Indeed.
    Straight forward simplicity without the complexity of political agendas that some need to retain.

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    I worked in the uk water industry for ages and the principle was that the storm capacity infrastructure was designed and built around the criteria of withholding a storm of 'x' magnitude that occurred once every 50 years.

    The 'x' figure being determined on the advice of technical experts.

    But it's a cost against risk situation.

    if a storm greater than 'x' comes along you will flood as the infrastructure doesn't have the capacity

    If 2 storms of close to "x" come along in short time of each other you will flood as your infrastructure is already still part full.

    All political in this case

  14. #14
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    Birding
    The 2011 BKK floods were caused by mismanagement but that cant be laid at her door.

    The major dams were left full after the 2010 floods so when the heavy rains came in 2011 the dams quickly reached critical level and water had to be released, it was this release that brought the surge of water that flooded BKK.

    Quote Originally Posted by HuangLao View Post
    Yet, flooding occurs every year somewhere in the country - be it broad or localized - such is the natural cycles.
    Has nothing to do with politics or blame thereof.


    If such petty blame were to be cast, point the finger at those whom insist on cementing over natural flood plains and degrading the klong systems.
    Agree with Birding, for some reasons dams were not discharged before the rainy season begun, it had something to do with government changes (from Abhisit to Yingluck administration).
    Either the dams were left full by error (Water Authorities didn't have the order to release water because they were busy clearing out their files, positions were going to be reshuffled etc) or it was on purpose to make Yingluck look poor as a PM (but I can't imagine someone causing floods, a massive burden to Thai people, to score political points)

    Anyway as there have been floods after 2011, without the excuse of government changes and dams being left full before the rainy season...so it would have been strange to go after YL admin and not after the Junta that had to cope with severe floods during and this year outside the rainy season. The main issue is indeed that many waterways are blocked/filled by new buildings or infrastructure, most of the remaining waterways are clogged by junk or invasive plants.

  15. #15
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    When you walk thru Moo Baan - not only in Bkk but also up-country - you will see how every sq. m of the roads, sois is filled in with concrete, closely up to the fence. There is almost no soil surface where the rain water can soak in. Instead, the water flows very fast into the drainages, sewers, down away to the river.

    Similarly, the water flows fast away by the concreted irrigation channels around villages - unless the concrete walls are collapsed...

  16. #16
    Member HuangLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farang Ky Ay View Post
    Agree with Birding, for some reasons dams were not discharged before the rainy season begun, it had something to do with government changes (from Abhisit to Yingluck administration).
    Either the dams were left full by error (Water Authorities didn't have the order to release water because they were busy clearing out their files, positions were going to be reshuffled etc) or it was on purpose to make Yingluck look poor as a PM (but I can't imagine someone causing floods, a massive burden to Thai people, to score political points)

    Anyway as there have been floods after 2011, without the excuse of government changes and dams being left full before the rainy season...so it would have been strange to go after YL admin and not after the Junta that had to cope with severe floods during and this year outside the rainy season. The main issue is indeed that many waterways are blocked/filled by new buildings or infrastructure, most of the remaining waterways are clogged by junk or invasive plants.

    One might examine how the seasonal flooding was approached and dealt with long before the building of dams and invasive infrastructure.
    I can imagine that communities throughout the country weren't implanted with such comparative ideals nor looking for authority figures in which to blame towards nature taking it's course, as it has for ages.

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