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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazz View Post
    "happens the way it should.", has nothing to do with PAD and nothing to do with taksin.... unless he is foolish enough to involve himself in this matter..

    A bit late for saying Thaksin should not getting involved, don't you think? If even half the rumors are true, he is well into it already and could be well set for the future.

    TH

  2. #152
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    It would be nice to dismiss the rantings of Jatuporn et al, but considering just in the last few days you've had the remnants of the PAD publicly calling for another illegal and unconstitutional seizure of power, it is not possible to do so.

    I think it is high time for the Democrats, and all other political parties, to publicly repudiate Coup, and publicly state that they will not accept being appointed to political power by any other means besides those mandated in the legal Constitution.
    probes Aliens

  3. #153
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    ^ Abhisit has said this.....seem fairly clear what his position is...

    Abhisit and the people voice opposition to coup - The Nation

    Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday expressed his opposition to the idea of the military seizing power in Thailand while an opinion survey found that most people are also against a coup.

    Attending a party seminar in Ubon Ratchathani, Opposition leader Abhisit said he disagreed with any call for the military to topple the Pheu Thai Party government. The call was made last week by the People's Alliance for Democracy.


    "A political change should not happen through non-systemic means. We should help support the political system to proceed, and political problems should be handled by the mechanisms of the system," Abhisit said.


    "If we see that the government has done what is not right, we must use the Constitution to address [the problem] or should base our actions on the charter."
    "Slavery is the daughter of darkness; an ignorant people is the blind instrument of its own destruction; ambition and intrigue take advantage of the credulity and inexperience of men who have no political, economic or civil knowledge. They mistake pure illusion for reality, license for freedom, treason for patriotism, vengeance for justice."-Simón Bolívar

  4. #154
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    ^ Thats nice, and I believe he means what he says ('born again', you might say)- but the rest of us, however, know what the extent of Mark's real power is. A politician giving his opinion, while welcome, is one thing- but what is required is for the Democrat party and others to publicly state this as a policy, and to amend their charters accordingly..

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabang
    nother illegal and unconstitutional seizure of power
    A coup is only illegal and unconstitutional if it *fails*.

    The winners make the rules.

    Was the American declaration of Independence and War of Independence 'Illegal & Unconstitutional'? - Yes it was. Does that mean it should be reversed and the UK should regain 'ownership'? Of course not.

    Was the English Civil War 'Illegal & Unconstitutional'? - Yes it was. Does that mean it should be reversed and the UK should go back to a Monarchy? Of course not.

    The fact is that throughout history 'successful' coups become the basis for the legal system for a country. 'Unsuccessful' coups, typically the leaders get executed. In some cases, coups eventually lead to more enlightened rule, in other cases they don't.

    You cannot argue though (Especially here, considering who signs off on the law) that the highest law in the land, no matter how it is 'imposed' is illegal.

    Based on the probable input, I will probably object to the upcoming constitution and I would probably not vote for it, but no matter what it is, I would not claim it is illegal.
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaihome
    A bit late for saying Thaksin should not getting involved, don't you think?


    Yes, a bit late for sure, after he kicked PAD-ass in an election.

    But it doesn't deter them from whining about it.

    This is particularly ridiculous when they bleat about Constitution revision being one-man centric, when their coup constitution created this one-man centricity in the first place.

    A little bit like the American Tea Party accusing Obama of doing nothing, when they prevented him from doing anything.

    Trying to remove PAD paranoid one-man centricity from the constitution will be fun to watch.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaihome
    A bit late for saying Thaksin should not getting involved, don't you think?


    Yes, a bit late for sure, after he kicked PAD-ass in an election.

    But it doesn't deter them from whining about it.

    This is particularly ridiculous when they bleat about Constitution revision being one-man centric, when their coup constitution created this one-man centricity in the first place.

    A little bit like the American Tea Party accusing Obama of doing nothing, when they prevented him from doing anything.

    Trying to remove PAD paranoid one-man centricity from the constitution will be fun to watch.


    You obviously have no idea what I am talking about.
    TH

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil
    Was the English Civil War 'Illegal & Unconstitutional'? - Yes it was. Does that mean it should be reversed and the UK should go back to a Monarchy? Of course not.
    eeemmm
    1. It probably was illegal, unconstitutional.... has england ever had a formal constitution?
    2. thats what happened, we decided that a variation of the old system was better than having the english Taliban running the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary
    Yes, a bit late for sure, after he kicked PAD-ass in an election.
    you really don't know what that entire conversation about future events and mr taksin was about. you have some really serious holes in your knowledge of thailand....

  9. #159
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    Bangkok Post : Sukumpol: Stop asking about a coup

    Sukumpol: Stop asking about a coup

    The media should stop asking about the possibility of another coup because nobody wants to do it, and it is not easy anyway, new Defence Minister Sukumpol Suwanatat said on Tuesday.

    ACM Sukampol said this after attending a ceremony at the Defence Ministry to bid farewell for Gen Yutthasak Sasiprapa, the former defence minister who has been appointed deputy prime minister, and to welcome him as new defence minister.

    The ceremony was also attended by Gen Sathian Permthong-in, the permanent secretary for defence, Gen Thanasak Patimaprakorn, the supreme commander, Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha, the army commander, Admiral Surasak Roonroengrom, the navy commander, ACM Itthiporn Suphawong, the air force commander, and other top-ranking military officers.

    In his speech to the top brass, ACM Sukampol said he would look into policies laid by Gen Yutthasak, his predecessor, to see what should be reviewed and what should to be continued, taking into consideration the need for the military to safeguard national security and provide assistance to people in need of help.

    Concerning the navy's proposal to buy used submarines, the new defence minister said he would look into the purchase plan.

    He said there should be no problems if the navy was able to clearly explain it to him and the people why they were needed.

    However, the people must also understand that the military could not disclose every detail of its plans because some information was necessarily classified.

    ACM Sukumpol said that while having breakfast with the supreme commander and chiefs of the armed forces the issues of unity and reconciliation were raised for discussion.

    "I would like to ask the media not to raise the question about a coup with me or any other military leaders again. Let's stop raising this question.

    "Please do not asked about it anymore because the answer would be the same, that nobody wants to do it.

    "I have seen the army chief repeatedly assure the press about this three or four times. It's boring.

    "Nobody wants to do it . It's not easy to do. Let's not raise this question again. Please stop saying that there is speculation about it," the defence minister said.

    ACM Sukumpol reiterated that he had no problems with ACM Itthiporn, the air force chief.

    Asked about the military reshuffle, he said he had not thought about this matter.

    ACM Sukumpol said it is important and necessary for him to assume the role of a coordinator between the political sector and the military.

    "Political interference in the military affairs is normal. What is of importance is cooperation," he said.

  10. #160
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    Sondhi, ex-army adviser accused | Bangkok Post: news

    Sondhi, ex-army adviser accused


    A lawyer for the United Front for the red-shirt Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on Thursday filed a police complaint against Sondhi Limthongkul, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), and Gen Boonlert Kaewprasit, a former adviser to the army, accusing them of inciting unrest in the country.

    Karom Polthaklang, chairman of of the Confederation of Lawyers for Democracy and Society, filed the complaint with Pol Col Prasopchok Prommoon, deputy commander of the Crime Suppression Division.

    The lawyer said comments made by the two men on Jan 20 and 21 about military coups had violated Sections 114, 115 and 116(2) of the Criminal Code.

    In his comment, Mr Sondhi, founder of the Manager Group and PAD core member, said there was now a movement afoot with the aim to overthrow the country's main institution. Mr Sondhi said he wondered why the military could stay indifferent and did not come out to protect the institution.

    Mr Karom said Mr Sondhi's call for the military to seize power was against the law.

    Gen Boonlert, alias Seh Ai, a friend of Privy Councillor and former prime minister Surayud Chulanont, also questioned why the military had not done anything about the attempt to amend Section 112 of the Criminal Code, or the lese majeste law, and offend the high institution.

    The UDD lawyer said Gen Boonlert also called for the people and the military to seize power from the government.

    Both Mr Sondhi and Gen Boonlert, in making such comments, were unlawfully making a threat against the government and inciting the people and the military to commit treason.

    If the soldiers did come out and do so, they would certainly face resistance from the red-shirts, he said.

    Since the present conditions were now unfavourable for any move to amend Section 112 there should instead be a proposal to add a clause, which might be Section 112/1, to the Criminal Code, imposing a penalty on people who wrongfully accused others of lese majeste, to prevent persecution, Mr Karom said.

  11. #161
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    http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/loca...ple-government

    PT: Conspiracy to topple government

    A group of politicians and members of an old power clique have set up a fund of almost three billion baht to ignite a workers' movement to overthrow the government, Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit claimed on Thursday.


    Pheu Thai party list MP and spokesman Prompong Nopparit (Photo by Pattarachai Preechapanich)


    His accusation came after a group of factory workers held a rally on Bangkok's outskirts to protest against the movement to amend Section 112 of the Criminal Code, the lese majeste law.

    Mr Prompong claimed that the protesting factory workers had each received 500 baht per day, money contributed by a group of politicians and the old power clique.

    "The group is trying to link the government and Pheu Thai with the Nitirat group's proposed amendment to the lese majeste law, and this is also an attempt to prevent the government from amending the constitution,'' he complained.

    "The people behind this are the same group of people behind the Sept 19, 2006 coup and I believe they will get caught soon," said Mr Prompong, who is a Pheu Thai party list MP.

    Pheu Thai will not amend the lese majeste law since it would not benefit the people. The party just wants constitutional amendment, he said.

    The spokesman said the opposition Democrat Party had a hidden agenda as shown by its move to file a petition, signed by 145 MPs, with the senate speaker seeking the impeachment of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul over the reissuing of an ordinary Thai passport for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

    "The reissuing [of the passport] was done by the foreign minister and had nothing to do with the premier," Mr Prompong said.


    Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra (left) and Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul (Photo by Kosol Nakachol)


    Ms Yingluck on Dec 28 received a letter from the Democrats asking her to revoke the reissuing of a passport for her elder brother and fugitive Thaksin, and was given a seven-day deadline.

    Mr Prompong said the Democrats might be violating Section 266, which prohibits MPs from interfering in administrative affairs, and be spreading false information to destroy Ms Yingluck's credibility.

    "Pheu Thai is examining the information before making a decision whether to take legal action against the Democrat Party," he said.

    Pheu Thai legal team member of the Pichit Chuenban said the Foreign Ministry has the legal authority to issue passports.

    "After the Democrats filed the petition, the secretariat of the prime Mmnister sent a letter to the Foreign Ministry asking it to explain [the reissuing of a passport for Thaksin].

    "Therefore, Mr Surapong was not negligent in his duty since it's a disagreement on a point of law between him and former foreign minister Kasit Piromya," Mr Pichit said.
    Last edited by StrontiumDog; 26-01-2012 at 10:45 PM.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil
    Was the English Civil War 'Illegal & Unconstitutional'? - Yes it was. Does that mean it should be reversed and the UK should go back to a Monarchy? Of course not.
    eeemmm
    1. It probably was illegal, unconstitutional.... has england ever had a formal constitution?
    No. There is no written constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazz View Post

    2. thats what happened, we decided that a variation of the old system was better than having the english Taliban running the country.
    Actually it wasn't "we" who decided that. It was the Nobles who decided that. They did a deal with the English King that they'd back him as long as he took his hand out of their pockets. As for the eventual emergence of a House of Commons it was a sop by the Lords to head off another attempt at republic.
    My mind is not for rent to any God or Government, There's no hope for your discontent - the changes are permanent!

  13. #163
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    ^1. I was attempting to be rhetorical, I obviously failed.

    2. I think you will find that the fundamentalist christians that had taken control of england post civil war, had in their attempts to enforce a christian utopia managed to piss off just about the entire population that the restoration was seen as an improvement, as would have been just about any type of government.

    Lets be honest by the time of the restoration olivia and his son had become kings under a different name, betraying the ideals of the revolution that came out of the civil war, just as all revolutions ultimately are. I used we, in the sense that the restoration happened because very very few people were prepared to fight to keep the commonwealth, such was the disillusionment; if even a small part of the population or a reasonable amount of the commonwealth army had been prepared to fight, the restoration would have failed.

  14. #164
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    You didn't fail. I just figured that it needed to be explained (not everyone would know that).

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hazz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil
    Was the English Civil War 'Illegal & Unconstitutional'? - Yes it was. Does that mean it should be reversed and the UK should go back to a Monarchy? Of course not.
    eeemmm
    1. It probably was illegal, unconstitutional.... has england ever had a formal constitution?
    No. There is no written constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazz View Post

    2. thats what happened, we decided that a variation of the old system was better than having the english Taliban running the country.
    Actually it wasn't "we" who decided that. It was the Nobles who decided that. They did a deal with the English King that they'd back him as long as he took his hand out of their pockets. .
    Hang on a second - you (in the last bit) are talking about the Magna Charta, initially written in about 1215 which was forced on King John by the barons.

    Hazz seems to be talking about the civil war (1640 - 1650 ish) and, I assume, the eventual return to the monarchy system under Charles II (1660 ish), albeit with the "consent" of parliament.

    Given that the events you are talking about are separated by more than 400 years - there might be some crossed wires going on.....

  16. #166
    euston has flown

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    Particually true when you consider the op is about on of jatuporn's many announcments that someone wants to bring down the government.

  17. #167
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    Yes, it seems things have gone a bit..

  18. #168
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    Abhisit tells govt to silence Jatuporn | Bangkok Post: news

    Abhisit tells govt to silence Jatuporn

    The government and Pheu Thai Party should warn Jatuporn Prompan, a core member of the red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), against causing distrust and conflict among people in society with his comments, Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Sunday.

    Mr Abhisit, the opposition leader, was referring to daily comments made in his interviews with the press by Mr Jatuporn, a Pheu Thai Party list MP, that there had been a movement to topple the government and the Nitirat group of lecturers had been intimidated over the proposed reform of the lese majeste law or Article 112 of the Criminal Code.

    He said Mr Jatuporn should stop causing distrust and conflict among people in society.

    If Mr Jatuporn saw anything unusual such as intimidation of any group of people he should inform the government or authorities concerned instead of trying to raise it an issue to arouse suspicion.

    In this situation, all people should give a helping hand to push the country forward because the government itself is now in the position to do so, Mr Abhisit said.

    "What he (Mr Jatuporn) is doing is an attempt to maintain the red shirts' mass support base, probably for a certain purpose. This could make it more difficult for the government to handle the country's administration.

    "Those who are working hard, especially cabinet members, should warn people in the party not to spoil the country's atmosphere and to stop inciting conflict," said the opposition leader.

  19. #169
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    tulsathit tulsathit

    TR @satien_nna: Jatuporn claims US intelligence foresees a Thai coup within April. cc @kristiekenney

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Jatuporn claims US intelligence foresees a Thai coup within April.
    Yes, because US intelligence agencies are well known for sharing their assessments with foreign powers....

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangkok Post
    Abhisit tells govt to silence Jatuporn
    and Sondhi ?

    Abhisit , you really are a disappointment and your western education was an obvious waste .

  22. #172
    euston has flown

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    Kettle calling the pot black comes to mind

    A serious disapointment when you consider that if he had been paying attention to his enviroment during years at uni and school he would better placed than anyone to start implementing the changes the dems need to do to become electable, not that i think itis possible since the supream court fixed their future.

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    Oh well many thais have received education abroad and gained great prestige and wealth for their families and then jetisoned the foundation of freedom of speech, democracy and the right for all men to be treated equal. In'it.

  24. #174
    euston has flown

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    'Reverting to type' comes to mind

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Jatuporn claims US intelligence foresees a Thai coup within April.
    Yes, because US intelligence agencies are well known for sharing their assessments with foreign powers....
    Well since they couldn't keep 27 zillion secret cables 'secret' - then maybe you ought to suspend your disbelief that Jatuporn might know something you don't?

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