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  1. #201
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    TAN_Network TAN News Network

    Deputy PM Chalerm believes pursuing charter amendment now will bring about opposition but denies conflict within Pheu Thai on issue

  2. #202
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    Thai-ASEAN News Network

    Deputy Senate Speaker Endorses Article 291 Change

    UPDATE : 22 December 2011

    The deputy senate speaker expressed support for the government's plan to amend Article 291 of the Charter to pave way for the appointment of a new constitution drafting assembly.

    Meanwhile, the Opposition parties are planning to consult with each other to determine their stance on the issue.

    Deputy Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatpanit has commented on the Pheu Thai-led government's attempt to amend the charter, saying it has been planned since the election campaign, and differing opinions on the issue are expected.


    To avert possible conflicts, a committee chosen by the people must be appointed to oversee the whole process.

    In any case, Nikom has expressed support for the setup of a new constitution drafting assembly.

    However, he refused to comment on which articles of the charter should be amended, saying it should be decided by the drafting assembly.

    The deputy senate speaker also suggested that the selection of the assembly members should be supervised by a panel of experts from different backgrounds chosen from each province.

    Nikom believes Article 291 should be the starting point for the charter change, while other amendments should be left alone.

    He added that the some senators have already begun to discuss how to address the country's prolonged problems.

    Meanwhile, the Opposition parties are planning to consult with each other.

    Naris Khamnurak, the secretary of the opposition whips, said there should not be any problem if the charter change is intended for the greater good, but that it might be problematic if it is initiated only to benefit a particular individual.

    He proposed that the drafting committee could be selected directly by the people in order to avert some resisting sentiment.

    Nevertheless, he raised concern that the assembly could still be politically interfered with.
    "Slavery is the daughter of darkness; an ignorant people is the blind instrument of its own destruction; ambition and intrigue take advantage of the credulity and inexperience of men who have no political, economic or civil knowledge. They mistake pure illusion for reality, license for freedom, treason for patriotism, vengeance for justice."-Simón Bolívar

  3. #203
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    I love it when the BKK. Post provides me the sporting opportunity to checkmate their propaganda
    Bangkok Post : Charter haste a path to peril
    Perilous only to the Amart....Who cares...they lost.

    Any more delay by the PTP would be truly perilous....with their majority electoral base.
    The bloody crackdown on red shirt protesters which left 92 people dead, including some members of the security forces
    No......Not 92 people.....92 Red Shirts!

    Including some members of the military?.....

    What the hell were they doing there.

    Did anyone see any foreign invaders at Ratchaprasong?
    But in a political atmosphere that is thickly sullied
    Not any more.

    That is why we have elections.

    The election 'unsullied' the ruling 'tyranny of the minority'.
    The ruling Pheu Thai Party which has been singing the reconciliation song since the pre-election days appears determined to achieve the goal next year through legislation. In short, the party believes amending the 2007 constitution, which it says is the legacy of the 2006 coup and the source of all political ills, will pave the way for reconciliation.
    Yes, it will.

    Any more questions?
    Pheu Thai's charter change and reconciliation moves have been viewed with suspicion by its opponents
    Yeah, OK

    So what!
    The most asked question is why the need and the rush to amend the constitution which has been in place just four years
    Just actualizing electoral promises.

    The election is over, so what is the problem?

    This is the most asked question by PADites....no-one else.

    These people keep confusing themselves with the public at large.

    If the PTP actualized this thing 30 years from now, it would be too soon for the Amart.
    Last edited by Calgary; 22-12-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  4. #204
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    Bangkok Post : Charter change can be done if...

    Charter change can be done if...

    Amending the constitution can be carried out if it does not create conflict in the country, former prime minister and opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said Thursday.

    "If the changes help improve the system then there wouldn't be a problem but I disagree with the amnesty plan as it could create more conflict in the country.

    "We'll also have to look into the setting-up of a new constitution drafting assembly," Mr Abhisit said.


    Former prime minister and Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva (Photo by Thiti Wannamontha)

    The CDA in 1997 were formed through an election process and there were also experts checking the draft charter. As for the 2007 constitution, it went through a public referendum, he said.

    The amendment must not focus on one specific section, he said.

    Amending the charter is not urgent because the government must help people affected by the flood. Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra must be able to prioritise tasks, the Democrat Party leader said.

    On the Thai-Cambodian General Border Committee meeting yesterday in Phnom Pehn, Mr Abhisit said the government must tell Cambodia to respect the memorandum of understanding covering the boundary issue signed between the two countries in 2000.

    The government must tell Cambodia to withdraw its troops from the disputed area and set a clear role for third party observers, he said.

    "We should not let a third party to observe the border situation during the withdrawal of troops and when Cambodia is violating the 2000 MoU because it might cause a misunderstanding among the global community and could affect the International Court of Justice's verdict in the beginning of next year," Mr Abhisit said.

    The government must pay more attention to the Thai-Cambodian issue and should not be preoccupied with the good bilateral relations and investment in oil and gas, he added.

  5. #205
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    Bangkok Post : Charter change can be done if...

    Amending the constitution can be carried out if it does not create conflict in the country, former prime minister

    Another case of Abhi, the Amart and PADites confusing themselves with "the country".

    The "country" decided that issue in the election.

    The only conflict there will be is with Abhi's accolytes.
    Mr Abhisit said the government must tell Cambodia to respect the memorandum of understanding covering the boundary issue signed between the two countries in 2000.
    Sorry Abhi., that Fascist, Nationalistic PAD game is over.

  6. #206
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    Bangkok Post : Sodsri: Public referendum first

    Sodsri: Public referendum first
    The government should ask the people by public referendum whether the constitution should be changed before moving to amend the 2007 charter, election commissioner Sodsri Satthayatham said on Friday.

    Mrs Sodsri said people’s opinion on whether or not the constitution should be altered should be sought prior to any move to legislate for changes.

    Only by doing this could the government avoid being accused of having a hidden agenda and political conflict be avoided, she said.

    She was not afraid that any rewrite of the charter would dissolve the Election Commission (EC).

    EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganont said there should be no severe social conflict if the government could get people to understand why it was necessary to rewrite the charter.

    The final decision whether a charter drafting committee should be set up, and if a referendum on charter change should be held, rests with the members of parliament, Mr Apichart said.

    -----
    Bangkok Post : Gen Chavalit backs charter change

    Gen Chavalit backs charter change

    Former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyuth said on Friday that he personally has no objection on the move by the Pheu Thai-led coalition government to push ahead with amendments to the charter.


    Gen Chavalit Yongchaiyuth (Photo by Apichit Jinakul)

    Gen Chavalit said Pheu Thai'’s plan to alter Article 291 of the 2007 Constitution to pave way for the setting up of the charter drafting panel is the right direction.

    The retired general said he believed constitutional amendment would not be made for self-interest, but to lay down a foundation for the country's future.

    Asked whether the Section 112 of the Criminal Code, the lese majesty law, should also be altered, the former premier declined to comment.

  7. #207
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    Bangkok Post : CTP backs charter change plan

    CTP backs charter change planThe Chartthaipattana Party stands firm on its earlier announcement that it supports the plan to amend the 2007 Constitution, party leader Chumpol Silpa-archa said on Friday.

    He said this before chairing the annual meeting of party members at a hotel in Bangkok.

    “Only two points of the charter have been altered. There are more points that need to be rewritten to make the highest law more democratic,” he said.

    However, constitutional amendment must not be for the benefit of any particular person and Article 309 providing protection for the 2006 coup makers and Section 112 [of the Criminal Code] relating to the high institution must not be touched, said Mr Chumpol.

    “To enable the charter change plan to move ahead without conflict, it must be made clear to the public which articles of the charter will be altered. The MPs of the Pheu Thai party must refrain from saying that the constitutional amendment is aimed at bringing former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra back home,” he said.

    If these stipulations were met, the Chartthaipattana Party would provide full support for the charter change plan, he added.

    Mr Chumpol said the charter amendment process should be started within a year, as set out the government's policy statement.

    It could be started during the current parliamentary session, because the amendment process takes a long time.

    The government can start by changing Article 291 to pave way for the charter drafting committee to be set up, he added.

    -----
    Bangkok Post : Chalerm: No pressure from red-shirts

    Chalerm: No pressure from red-shirtsThe decision to go ahead and amend the 2007 Constitution was in line with the resolution of a recent meeting of Pheu Thai MPs, not as a result of pressure from the red-shirt United front for Democracy against Dictatorship, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung said on Friday.

    “I personally am of the view that this is not the right time to rewrite the charter, because the government has been in office for only three months. It would be more appropriate to introduce amendments to the charter nine months after taking office,” he said.

    Mr Chalerm said again that constitutional amendment was not aimed at trying to please a particular person, as claimed.

    Under the planned process, the charter’s Article 291 will first be altered to enable the setting up of a 99-member charter drafting panel.

    Of the total, 77 members would be directly elected by the people in 77 provinces. The other 22 would be selected academics and other experts. Once the charter amendments were drafted, the changes would be put to a public referendum and the outcome would require approval from parliament, he said.

    The deputy prime minister insisted that no politicians would be involved in charter drafting and that the changes were not intended to benefit any particular person.

  8. #208
    Thailand Expat SteveCM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    The government should ask the people by public referendum whether the constitution should be changed before moving to amend the 2007 charter, election commissioner Sodsri Satthayatham said on Friday.
    I really wonder just what a decision on this has to do with the EC? Should every other body mentioned in the Constitution also express a view? Similar case the other day with the BOT governor talking about a January cabinet re-shuffle.....

  9. #209
    Thailand Expat Pol the Pot's Avatar
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    All that will happen will be that the majority of voters will want it amended and the minority will cry again. That's all that'll happen.

  10. #210
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    Bangkok Post : Govt mulls halt to CDA

    Govt mulls halt to CDA

    Charter amendment issue divides Pheu Thai

    The Pheu Thai Party may abandon its plan to amend Section 291 of the charter to set up a Charter Drafting Assembly to speed up the constitution review process.

    This is despite it being the preferred option of some of its MPs.

    A party source said several core Pheu Thai members have agreed the CDA process should be dropped and the charter rewrite should be done by parliament to save both time and money.

    "Amending the charter is the party's policy platform. Since the party has the mandate to run the country, it means the people agree with the charter review," said the source.

    Ousted former prime minister and de facto Pheu Thai leader Thaksin Shinawatra has been consulted and he agreed with the latest proposal, said the source.

    Under its original plan, Pheu Thai would seek an amendment of Section 291, set up the CDA and then submit a charter amendment bill to parliament after New Year.

    The proposed CDA would comprise 97 members - 77 elected from each province and 20 appointed academics.

    According to the source, the party would have to justify dropping the more participatory CDA process.

    "If it meets resistance, the party will go back and set up the CDA as soon as possible," said the source.

    Uthen Chartpinyo, a core member of Pheu Thai, yesterday backed the idea of dropping the CDA process.

    "It will take almost a year to recruit drafters and it would cost more than 3 billion baht. If we set up a CDA, the total cost would be 5 billion," he said.

    Pheu Thai MP for Nakhon Phanom Paichit Sriworakhan, however, insisted yesterday the party made a resolution to amend the charter using the CDA.

    He said Pheu Thai's earlier incarnation - the now-defunct People Power Party - had floated an idea of amending the charter without the CDA, but faced strong resistance.

    "So Pheu Thai carefully thought it out and decided the charter rewrite should be the task of the CDA," he said.

    Election Commission (EC) chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said yesterday there is no need to repeat the previous charter amendment process by setting up a CDA to work on it.

    "We don't have to do it the same way we did with the 1997 and 2007 charters," he said.

    However, he stressed a referendum should be held before any amendment proceeds.

    "If it is clear the change is essential and for the public interest, and the timing is right, then it should proceed. But a referendum is needed," he said.

    His view is echoed by EC member Sodsri Sattayatham, who is in charge of political affairs and referendums.

    She noted a public referendum is a mechanism to mitigate political confrontation and pressure.

    "We don't want another political conflict, and [an amendment without a referendum] could backfire on the government," she said.

    Mrs Sodsri also voiced concerns about a proposal to remove Section 309, which endorses the investigation into alleged corruption cases against Thaksin and his government by the now-defunct Assets Scrutiny Committee.

    She said judicial decisions would be affected, which could trigger a political crisis.

    Public independent agencies such as the EC and the government itself would also be affected as they were borne of the 2007 charter.

    Deputy House Speaker Charoen Chankomol said supporters of the charter review should spell out clearly why it is needed.

    "It should be made clear first what kind of obstacles or problems the charter has imposed or if it causes some kind of injustice," he said.

    "There are talks about charter change but no one seems to say how it would be done or what it would be for."

    The Chartthaipattana Party yesterday stood by its earlier stance supporting charter amendments via the CDA.

    Chartthaipattana leader Chumpol Silpa-archa said the government should proceed during the present parliamentary session because the amendment process takes a long time.

    He said setting up the CDA would be the best way to handle the amendment.

  11. #211
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    Bangkok Post : PM backs plan to set up CDA

    PM backs plan to set up CDA

    Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said on Saturday that she agrees with the plan to amend the Article 291 of the charter to pave way for setting up the charter drafting assembly.

    She said this when asked about the proposal by her deputy Chalerm Yubamrung that a 99-member Charter Drafting Assembly be set up to rewrite the 2007 Constitution.

    Ms Yingluck said it is a good proposal but I would like the decision on this issue be made under parliamentary process.

    “I only want to make sure that members of the charter drafting panel are really representatives of people of all groups”, she said, adding that she also agreed that public referendum on charter change should be held.

    Nithi Aiewsriwong, an independent academic, said he supports the constitutional amendment plan.

    “But the government must make it clear to the general public the amendment process. It should make known whether or nor a charter drafting assembly comprising people representatives, lawyers and academics will be set up to do this mission”, he said.

  12. #212
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    TAN_Network TAN News Network

    Deputy PM Chalerm voices opposition against amending charter now, says public hearing is necessary, promises to leave lese majeste law alone

  13. #213
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    TAN_Network TAN News Network Deputy PM Chalerm voices opposition against amending charter now, says public hearing is necessary, promises to leave lese majeste law alone

    We'll see about that.

    Attending a very large Red Shirt gathering in Khon kean tomorrow, with representation from 20 provinces.

    It has sporting element to it, plus Stadium parades, and evening speeches by the likes of Nathawut and Jatuporn amongst others.

    Look for comprehensive coverage in your Bkk. Post and Nation.........NOT.

    Can you imagine the saturated coverage the PAD would receive, should they be able to muster an event of such magnitude.

    I see increased pressure coming from the UDD into the New Year, to get the PTP to actualize many of the election issues that were important to the Red Shirts.

    Events such as tomorrow's will be occurring more frequently with a purpose, and routinely ignored by the media.

    Similar to the post-coup one's, except for Bangkok events which would be a little hard to ignore.
    Last edited by Calgary; 24-12-2011 at 08:43 PM.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    I really wonder just what a decision on this has to do with the EC? Should every other body mentioned in the Constitution also express a view? Similar case the other day with the BOT governor talking about a January cabinet re-shuffle.....
    Yes, quite right, Steve. It's bad enough having non-elected senators and generals feeling thay have the right to decide things without all these appointed grand poobahs of the EC and other bodies feeling that their ideas have to be taken notice of.

    A comedy idea occurs though: A thai version of Yes Minister. It'd be very diferent but probably even a lot funnier

  15. #215
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    Bangkok Post : Nathawut: Amend Section 291

    Nathawut: Amend Section 291

    The Pheu Thai Party and the red shirts are determined to propose for amendment of Section 291 of the 2007 constitution to make way for the establishment of a new constitution drafting assembly (CDA), Nathawut Saikua said on Sunday,

    Mr Nathawut, a Pheu Thai list MP and core member of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), said the party stands firm on this proposal which was emphasised during its campaign that led to its victory in the July 3 election.

    Therefore, it was not necessary to conduct a referendum before proposing the amendment. A public referendum would be needed only after the CDA had completed drafting a new constitution, he said.

    "Parliament would be required to amend only Section 291. It was the duty of the CDA to consider amending the rest of the constitution," he added.

    Mr Nathawut said it would be clear early next year when would be the right time to propose for the charter amendment.

    On Section 112 of the Criminal Code regarding lese majeste, Mr Nathawut said the Pheu Thai Party had made it clear that that it would not touch on this issue.

    However, he said different opinions made over this matter should be taken for considered by people in society.

    -----
    http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingn...charter-change

    Caution against charter change



    The government's campaign to amend the 2007 charter may lead to more confrontation and conflict in society if its objective of amending the charter is to nullify Section 309 whitewash former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Suriyasai Katasila said on Sunday.

    Mr Suriyasai, coordinator of the Green Politics Group, said the 2007 constitution was drafted with public participation and it was endorsed by 14.7 million votes.

    Therefore, before a constitution drafting assembly was set up the people should first be asked in a public referendum whether this charter should be amended. And, even after the charter had been amended, the amendment draft should undergo another referendum for endorsement.

    According to the Public Referendum Act of 2009, the Election Commission is required to conduct public hearings in 45 days before a referendum to take public opinions and give the people as much information on the amendment as possible, he said.

    If the Pheu Thai government paid no attention to the voices of opposition but insisted in amending the charter to help Thaksin, the same way as done by the Samaj Sundaravej government, another political crisis could follow and put the government of Yingluck Shinawatra in trouble, Mr Suriyasai said.

  16. #216
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    Debate on referendum hoting up - The Nation

    Debate on referendum hoting up

    The Nation December 26, 2011 1:00 am


    Disagreement over whether public opinion should be sought before or after draft amendments


    The Yingluck government's plan to amend or overhaul the Constitution needs to overcome its first obstacle, the highly contentious question of whether and/or when a public referendum on the issue should take place.

    Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on Saturday expressed ambiguous support for a referendum, without spelling out when it should be held. The Election Commission and the red-shirt movement have adopted clearer, opposing stands on the timing of the referendum. The opposition Democrats, meanwhile, are keeping their options open.

    Pheu Thai MP Natthawut Saikua yesterday ruled out a referendum before amending the charter, saying the people should be consulted only after draft amendments are completed.

    "Pheu Thai is very clear about charter amendment, therefore it has the mandate to rewrite the charter based on the July 3 voting outcome," he said.

    Natthawut said the main coalition party and red-shirt movement would push to amend Article 291 of the Constitution, paving the way for formation of the Constitution Drafting Assembly to take charge of the rewriting process.

    "The CDA will be responsible for the rewriting and the referendum vote on the draft," he said in reference to a non-partisan approach.

    He said voters installed Pheu Thai in power with an understanding that the party would bring about charter change, hence he deemed it inappropriate to hold the referendum before activating the rewriting process.

    He said the charter rewrite would not fuel political conflict because the CDA was free to get the job done without involvement of the government.

    Opponents were trying to fault the drafting process because they had an ulterior motive to try to bring down the government, he said.

    He voiced optimism that the charter amendment process would be activated early next year.

    He dismissed speculation that the charter would be amended to

    "rescue" fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, saying past charters had never been written to serve any individuals.

    Regarding the proposal to amend the lese-majeste law, he said there was no link between the charter rewrite and the criminal provision on royal insults.

    "Pheu Thai has no policy to amend Article 112 of the Criminal Code related to offending the monarchy," he said.

    Election Commission member Sodsri Satayathum said the referendum on charter amendment could be done if the Cabinet, in consultation with the speakers of the House and the Senate, deemed it necessary to do so.

    A referendum vote could be done from 90 to 120 days, Sodsri said.

    The EC would be tasked with organising the referendum, including holding a series of public hearings allowing proponents and opponents of the issue to air their views to enable voters to form a decision, she said.

    She said in her personal opinion, the referendum should be held before the CDA formation to clarify whether or not the charter should be amended.

    She said the voting outcome for the July 3 general election should not be construed as a mandate to amend the charter. Although 15 million voters chose the Pheu Thai, their numbers might increase or decrease if asked a specific question about charter amendment.

    Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva pointed out that the government's stand on constitutional reform remained vague, so his party would not jump to form conclusions about what to do.

    "We wouldn't mind supporting changes that could improve the system, but we won't back any move that could lead to greater national conflict or benefit only certain groups of people," Abhisit said.

    Regarding the referendum, Abhisit said that since the current Constitution virtually was "approved" by the Thai public, changes to this charter should also be put before Thai voters. Abhisit, however, was not specific about when a referendum should take place.

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    http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingn...charter-change
    The government's campaign to amend the 2007 charter may lead to more confrontation and conflict in society if its objective of amending the charter is to nullify Section 309 whitewash former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Suriyasai Katasila said on Sunday.
    It is not a campaign......that was already completed with the last election.

    The Thaksin-paranoia of the PADites was rejected during that election, considering his public association with it.

    Mr Suriyasai, coordinator of the Green Politics Group
    A 'group' this time.

    Even the PAD is realizing its' constant use of the descriptor 'network' is becoming too obvious.
    , before a constitution drafting assembly was set up the people should first be asked in a public referendum whether this charter should be amended.
    That so-called referendum was already conducted as part of the last election.

    All this talk about pre-charter review referendums, is merely a stalling and delaying tactic.
    If the Pheu Thai government paid no attention to the voices of opposition but insisted in amending the charter to help Thaksin, the same way as done by the Samaj Sundaravej government, another political crisis could follow and put the government of Yingluck Shinawatra in trouble, Mr Suriyasai said.
    Bring it on.

    At some point-in-time, this threat and coup threats need to be ignored, or the PTP Govt. would simply be a clone of the Amart as a result of doing nothing.

    The UDD and Red Shirts are gearing up to press this Govt. to act.

  18. #218
    Suspended from News & Speakers Corner Calgary's Avatar
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    ^^
    Debate on referendum hoting up
    the highly contentious question of whether and/or when a public referendum on the issue should take place.
    It is not as contentious as this propaganda outlet tries to make it seem.

    Their agenda is to prevent constitutional reform of any sort, considering the advantages they wrote into the past version under their ant-democratic, coup administration.

    Trying to position the question of having a referendum or not as pre-eminent, is merely a delaying tactic to anything associated with constitutional reform.

    They are trying their damndest to make it contentious.
    Pheu Thai MP Natthawut Saikua yesterday ruled out a referendum before amending the charter, saying the people should be consulted only after draft amendments are completed.
    The extensive quoting of Nathawut in this article is telling.

    It recognizes that he does not speak for himself, and a localized narrow political base, but a national movement.

    And let me assure you, Constitution reform is Job #1 for this Movement..matched only by the political prisoner thing.

    There is a clear awareness within the UDD/Red Shirts that without constitutional reform, and soon, mechanisms remain in place for the Amart to steal another democratically ellected Govt. and hand it over to their favorite post-coup group - the Democrat party.

    They know they need to act, while they can. They will try to avoid being pulled into a bureaucratic morass such as having pre-charter change referendums.

    Clearly a delaying tactic.
    She (EC) said the voting outcome for the July 3 general election should not be construed as a mandate to amend the charter
    Yes it should, and it is.

    Charter amendment was made clear throughout the election campaign.

    By extension, trying to isolate this one, is tantamount to opening all other campaign promises to referendums, pre and post.

    This EC operative and her Amart colleagues really don't like the election results, and would like to avoid the concept of an "electoral mandate" that an election victory bestows.
    Last edited by Calgary; 26-12-2011 at 01:12 PM.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary View Post
    , before a constitution drafting assembly was set up the people should first be asked in a public referendum whether this charter should be amended.
    That so-called referendum was already conducted as part of the last election.

    All this talk about pre-charter review referendums, is merely a stalling and delaying tactic.
    It's a constitution change and it is not unusual for a referendum to be held in response to such things.

    Oh and btw, Pheu Thai got 48.13%. As you seem to forget. Often.

  20. #220
    Thailand Expat SteveCM's Avatar
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    ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary
    The Thaksin-paranoia of the PADites was rejected during that election, considering his public association with it.
    That's arguably a valid point, but I think one has to be very careful about how far to take it. With so much emphasis placed on the "Thaksin thinks, Puea Thai acts" campaign slogan, the subsequent mock shock/horror at his involvement does look a bit hollow.

    But
    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary
    That so-called referendum was already conducted as part of the last election.
    is IMO going way too far. Nobody knows what motivated which percentage of the pro-PT vote - whether it was the Thaksin association, the attraction of PT's populist policies, dislike of the alternative parties' offerings (or, come to that, distrust that the "jam tomorrow, maybe" promises would actually come to anything) and so on.....

    What does seem palpably absurd is Suriyasai proposing (and Sodsri seems to be suggesting much the same) that there should be a referendum to ask the Thai people if they want a referendum. How either manages to say that with - presumably - a straight face is beyond me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calgary
    Clearly a delaying tactic. Quote: "She (EC) said the voting outcome for the July 3 general election should not be construed as a mandate to amend the charter." Yes it should, and it is. Charter amendment was made clear throughout the election campaign.
    Charter amendment being a key part of a campaign which resulted in giving PT an absolute seat majority is IMO reasonably a sufficient mandate to then go ahead with preparing/proposing it. But, it's plain that they'll need a popular mandate (majority) via a referendum to pass it and get it instituted.
    Last edited by SteveCM; 26-12-2011 at 01:30 PM.
    .

    “.....the world will little note nor long remember what we say here....."

  21. #221
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    ^ Good post Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
    Mr Suriyasai, coordinator of the Green Politics Group, said the 2007 constitution was drafted with public participation and it was endorsed by 14.7 million votes.
    Let's be perfectly clear who these people are: they are PAD. Just because many groups with new names are popping up left right and centre, do not be confused - check out the people:

    "PAD coordinator and secretary of the New Politics Party, Suriyasai Katasila commented that senators and MPs who are supporters of a campaign to push for the six charter amendments were too quick to conclude that the source of the political crisis lies only with the constitution."
    Suriyasai Katasila | Thai Political Facts Info

    This is a PAD twat tring to justify the coup constitution which benefits himself and his minority group...

    PAD have now got various groups started, each claiming to be: freedom of press; freedom for democratic elections; south-east asian news groups; green party ecological groups. Do not be fooled, they are PAD with the same PAD agenda: keep Thaksin out, keep the bluebloods in power, stop education of the masses, stop elected politicians, empower the army and other institutions, take power away from the populous and take it themselves... They are feudal, but they have all the tricks in the book, so keep your eyes open and check who instigates these groups where their funds come from and who the senior members are - PAD...
    How do I post these pictures???

  23. #223
    Suspended from News & Speakers Corner Calgary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    is IMO going way too far. Nobody knows what motivated which percentage of the pro-PT vote


    Constitutional reform as one of the election's mandates is "Not too far" as far as the major block of PTP support is concerned, that being the UDD/Red Shirts.

    It was a core plank in their electoral platform....CORE!

    The constitution as currently constructed is totally anahema to them. It is filled with "Amart bomblets" they can use to 'blow up this PTP Govt." It is an existential threat.

    Most independent outsiders would also consider very favorably, the urge to do away with a constitution designed by a Coup administration, in part justifying themselves.

    Reminds me of the palpitations experienced by the Germans and French when Papandreau (sp?) of Greece wanted to subject the German-Franco led Grecian bail-out with accompanying economic pain for the populace, to a referendum. The chance of losing it was disastrous.

    In this case, the current constitution is an existential threat to the PTP, UDD and Red Shirts (See also Bettyboo's Post above providing greater insight to this point)

    Constitutional reform is not negotiable to them, via referendums or any other means, about whether it should even take place.

    The election accomplished that objective and no amount of Amart dust-up is going to prevent it.

    At risk of overstating the significance, it could be argued that blocking permanently constitution reform, is tantamount to a coup.

    Blocking attempts by the Amart is seen for what it is.

    And quoting Nathawut as extensively as the above article, attests to which major political entity is putting forward its' point-of-view.

    At some point-in-time, this Govt needs to come down decisively on the side of its support base that put it in power.

    This is one of those instances.

    It would be extremely perilous for them not to do so.
    Last edited by Calgary; 26-12-2011 at 01:57 PM.

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    Thailand Expat SteveCM's Avatar
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    ^^ I think we'll see a concerted campaign to muddy the whole issue. Various voices will come out of the woodwork (and, yes, many of them PAD surrogates) claiming this, opining that and warning against the other. True to form, these will all be dutifully reported without clarification by most of the Thai media. Between one extreme faction urging that the government should just use its "mandate" to "push through" amendments and the opposite end claiming that it's all a dastardly plot, the central proposition will get blurred and confused. A sequence of opinion polls will then discover that many (maybe even a majority of) people are "worried".

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    Suspended from News & Speakers Corner Calgary's Avatar
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    ^
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCM
    A sequence of opinion polls will then discover that many (maybe even a majority of) people are "worried".


    Which I enjoy referring to as "propaganda laundering"

    Using managed opinion polls to transmit, cleanse and propagate the agenda of the Amart through the so-called opinions of others.

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