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Old 30-03-2012, 02:04 AM   #476 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
The Democrat MPs walked out.
Walked out of a vote they knew they had lost? how original.
They had already won the voting on that particular draft and it really doesn't matter that they won on walk-over. walk-over as in walk over to the parliament bar.
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Old 30-03-2012, 04:56 PM   #477 (permalink)
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Panel votes to revive govt draft - The Nation

Panel votes to revive govt draft

The Nation March 30, 2012 1:00 am

Nipit Intarasombat, second left, and other Democrat MPs who are members of the parliamentary committee vetting the constitutional amendment bills call a press conference at the Parliament building yesterday to explain their walkout during the panel

Coalition whips to seek extension of parliamentary session

The government camp in the parliamentary committee vetting the constitutional-amendment bills yesterday cast a new vote to change the Constitution Drafting Assembly's composition and retain the government draft.

At a meeting on Wednesday, committee chairman Samart Kaewmechai called for a vote on a government-sponsored clause outlining formation of the CDA. He did so without first checking attendance of members from the ruling coalition.

Samart failed to notice that a number of Pheu Thai MPs had stepped out of the meeting room before the vote was called. Consequently, the outcome was the dropping of the clause by a 12-10 vote despite the coalition's majority in the 45-member committee.

The panel later on Wednesday endorsed a proposal for the CDA to have 200 members, all of them elected. The government's draft calls for the CDA to comprise 99 members, of whom 77 will be directly elected to represent each province and 22 will be appointed by Parliament from a pool of academics.

Yesterday, Samart tried to push for the committee's reconsideration of the clause about formation of the CDA, asking the members to choose from the two drafts sponsored separately by the Pheu Thai and Chart Thai Pattana parties and the draft backed by minority committee members. Opposition Democrat MPs who are members of the parliamentary committee vetting the constitutional-amendment bills yesterday staged a walkout to protest against what they described as failure by the panel's chairman to follow meeting regulations.

The Democrats said Samart, who is from the ruling Pheu Thai Party, tried to push for deliberation of the clause that had been voted down by the committee on Wednesday.

The Democrats later called a news conference to explain about their walkout. Senior Democrat MP Suthas Ngernmuen told the press conference that Samart had failed to follow the rules on parliamentary meetings in trying to push for a vote on the other drafts after the committee members had voted down the government-sponsored clause on CDA establishment. He said the Democrats would return to the meeting room when the panel considered another clause.

Democrat MP Nipit Intarasombat said the government-sponsored clause should be considered to be voted down after the meeting on Wednesday resolved that all 200 CDA members should be elected.

When the vetting panel reconvened yesterday afternoon, Pheu Thai MP Woravat Auapinyakul suggested that the meeting reconsider the clause about the CDA's composition. This led to arguments between panel members from the opposition and the government. Some Democrat MPs later walked out in protest again, leaving a few other Democrats in the meeting room.

The majority at the meeting voted to reconsider the clause in question. The meeting later voted 21-3 to support the government draft regarding the CDA composition.

Meanwhile, government whips plan to seek extension of the current parliamentary session until late May, the chief coalition whip said yesterday.

Udomdej Ratanasathien, who is also a Pheu Thai MP, denied that the proposed extension was aimed at expediting deliberation of the government's constitutional-amendment bill. "That is just an incidental benefit," he said.

According to the chief coalition whip, the extended period would allow the draft laws sponsored by civic groups to be passed by Parliament within the current session.

He said that because of the flood crisis late last year, meetings in the early period of the current parliamentary session were often interrupted because many MPs visited their constituencies affected by flooding.

Udomdej said coalition whips were discussing the extension with the House Speaker and he expected an agreement to be reached in a day or two. "We will see if we will be able to push for passage of the laws within the current session, otherwise there is no use in extending the session."

According to the chief whip, the session is likely to be extended until late May. The current parliamentary session had originally been scheduled to end on April 19.

The plan for extension of the parliamentary session came amid speculation that the government would push for expedited passage of the constitutional-amendment bill, deliberation of reconciliation proposals, and issuance of an amnesty law for those involved in the political conflicts over recent years.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:34 PM   #478 (permalink)
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Charter change draft "ready for Parliament in three weeks" - The Nation

Charter change draft "ready for Parliament in three weeks"

April 4, 2012 5:56 pm

The constitution amendment draft is expected to be ready for Parliament's final consideration by April 26, chairman of the committee on charter amendment said Wednesday.

Pheu Thai MP Samart Kaewmeechai, chairman of the joint House-Senate committee deliberating the charter change draft, said the committee’s consideration of the draft should be completed by Thursday. The committee would then bring the draft to the joint House-Senate meeting on the second reading on April 1011.

As the parliamentary session is due to be extended, the Parliament should be able to consider the draft before the end of this month.

Parliamentary meetings are scheduled for next Wednesday and Thursday, and the current House session was originally scheduled to end on April 18.

The Nation
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:25 PM   #479 (permalink)
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Wow, they are really moving fast to ram this through. Somebody must be getting impatient.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #480 (permalink)
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^ some timing issue, definitely
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:26 AM   #481 (permalink)
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Charter draft tops agenda



A joint sitting of parliament will begin two days of deliberations of the second reading of the constitutional amendment draft on Tuesday, says Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranond.

Mr Somsak, also the House speaker, said the charter draft proposed by a House scrutiny committee would be placed on top on the agenda for urgent deliberation.

The draft was moved up the list ahead of other urgent agenda items that legislators were to consider. These included an agreement on investment promotion and protection between the Thai and Myanmar governments, which was proposed by the cabinet; and a foreign loan negotiating framework for the construction of phase three of the BTS Purple Line (Bang Yai-Bang Sue), which is pending scrutiny from the last joint sitting.

The cabinet last Tuesday endorsed an indefinite extension of the parliamentary session, but denied it had done so in order to push its charter amendments.

Deputy government spokesman Pakdiharn Himathongkham said the cabinet decided to extend the session without setting a limit to give parliament more time to deliberate the large number of bills pending scrutiny

He said the session, originally due to end on April 18, would now be extended indefinitely.


Source :Charter draft tops agenda | Bangkok Post: breakingnews
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:35 AM   #482 (permalink)
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Pheu Thai to discuss plans for charter - The Nation

Pheu Thai to discuss plans for charter

The Nation on Sunday April 8, 2012 1:00 am

Pheu Thai Party will meet tomorrow to discuss its stance in the upcoming parliamentary debate on amending the Constitution, deputy spokesman Jirayu Huangsap said yesterday.

The debate is due to start on Tuesday.

Jirayu said the party would hold meetings at both the regional and national levels.

The meetings would discuss how many members the Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) should have - 99, 150 or 200, he said.

Democrat MP Thepthai Senapong, meanwhile, asked the government to allow members of Parliament to debate the issue freely. If a third reading could not be held in the current session, the session should not simply be extended, should wait until the next session, Thepthai said.

The current parliamentary session was originally scheduled to end on April 18, but Cabinet resolved last week to extend it indefinitely. The Democrats accused the government of trying to rush a charter amendment to help fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

A joint House-Senate meeting to consider the second reading of changes to Article 291 of the Constitution is scheduled for Tuesday and Wednesday. Changes to the Article would allow the establishment of a CDA.

According to the law, the third reading cannot begin until 15 days after the second reading is passed.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:53 AM   #483 (permalink)
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Pheu Thai to discuss plans for charter - The Nation

Pheu Thai to discuss plans for charter

The Nation on Sunday April 8, 2012 1:00 am

Pheu Thai Party will meet tomorrow to discuss its stance in the upcoming parliamentary debate on amending the Constitution, deputy spokesman Jirayu Huangsap said yesterday.

The debate is due to start on Tuesday.

Jirayu said the party would hold meetings at both the regional and national levels.

The meetings would discuss how many members the Constitution Drafting Assembly (CDA) should have - 99, 150 or 200, he said.

Democrat MP Thepthai Senapong, meanwhile, asked the government to allow members of Parliament to debate the issue freely. If a third reading could not be held in the current session, the session should not simply be extended, should wait until the next session, Thepthai said.

The current parliamentary session was originally scheduled to end on April 18, but Cabinet resolved last week to extend it indefinitely. The Democrats accused the government of trying to rush a charter amendment to help fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

A joint House-Senate meeting to consider the second reading of changes to Article 291 of the Constitution is scheduled for Tuesday and Wednesday. Changes to the Article would allow the establishment of a CDA.

According to the law, the third reading cannot begin until 15 days after the second reading is passed.
Delaying tactics.

Just bring back the 1997 constitution, effective tomorrow 0800 hours.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:30 AM   #484 (permalink)
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^ you are both mad and silly,

got to be American,
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:37 AM   #485 (permalink)
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http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/poli...-democrats-say

CDA poll will favour govt, Democrats say The government is trying to control the proposed constitution drafting assembly (CDA) and create a charter that will weaken people's rights, the Democrat Party says.

Independent organisations and the courts could also end up with a reduced role and corrupt politicians could evade legal punishment, Democrat Party MP Nipit Intarasombat said.

Charter drafters are being elected in each province. Most drafters would be on the same side as the government, because the results of the election would reflect the government's support, he said.

Apart from the 77 drafters _ one per province _ to be elected at provincial level, the government will appoint 22 experts to the assembly and they will also come under government control, he said.

"As the CDA will be influenced by the government, three concerns arise: that they will attempt to control and weaken independent organisations, to control and weaken the Constitution Court, the Court of Justice and the Administrative Court, and to arrange an amnesty for those prosecuted by the ASC," Mr Nipit said.

He was referring to the now-dissolved Asset Scrutiny Committee (ASC) established after the 2006 coup that toppled the Thaksin Shinawatra government.

The ASC investigated allegation of corruption against the former prime minister.

A House committee has been scrutinising a proposed amendment to Section 291 of the constitution to set up the CDA.

Mr Nipit is in the minority group of the committee. The panel will propose the bill to parliament on Wednesday and Thursday for its second reading.

Appointed senator Somchai Sawaengkan said the House committee scrutinising the bill seemed to ignore criticisms of the proposals.

As many as 172 House members expressed reservations about the bill but the committee spent only one and a half days listening to them.

"The government may have already decided who will be the 22 appointed drafters," he said.

"The election of the 77 other drafters is based on the principle of excluding candidates who are defeated.

"By this means, the minority will not be represented in the CDA and the majority can then design the constitution."

Opponents deprived of their right to a say might have to take their reservations to the streets, he warned.

Jirayu Huangsap, deputy spokesman of the ruling Pheu Thai Party, said his party would meet today to discuss its stance on the bill's second reading. He expects the third reading to take place on April 24 or 25.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:04 AM   #486 (permalink)
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At the very least this needs to be presented to the people and let them make a choice via a referendum (even the Coup government did that!). Failing that, if it is done through parliament it should require a 2/3 majority vote to pass, this is done in many western democracies when dealing with constitutional amendments.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:23 PM   #487 (permalink)
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People already decided - get over it.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:51 AM   #488 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BKKBoet View Post
At the very least this needs to be presented to the people and let them make a choice via a referendum (even the Coup government did that!). Failing that, if it is done through parliament it should require a 2/3 majority vote to pass, this is done in many western democracies when dealing with constitutional amendments.
2/3 majority?
Anything over 50% is a majority. The last Thai referendum for the constitution only needed 50% of the people who voted that day. Why change the rules now?
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:03 AM   #489 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BKKBoet View Post
At the very least this needs to be presented to the people and let them make a choice via a referendum (even the Coup government did that!). Failing that, if it is done through parliament it should require a 2/3 majority vote to pass, this is done in many western democracies when dealing with constitutional amendments.

At this point all they are discussing is amending the current constitution to allow a constitution drafting committee to be formed. Supposedly the plan is for it to draft a new constitution which would be presented to the public for approval in a national referendum.

It should be interesting to see what comes out this. The strategy and tactics have certainly changed since the last attempt in 2008. I suspect that the new constitution will be filled with populist measures with an amnesty for Thaksin included.

Not too dissimilar to Chavez’s attempt in 2007 to make himself president for life. That was defeated in very close election with low voter turnout. I would not be surprised with a similar outcome here.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:23 AM   #490 (permalink)
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People already decided - get over it.
How could they have decided when the new constitution has not yet been drafted?
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:25 AM   #491 (permalink)
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^ you don't get it, Thaksin is the new constitution

actually who needs a constitution, when you have Thaksin as supreme leader, completely pointless
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:18 AM   #492 (permalink)
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ASC

If the ASC, the Asset Scrutiny Comittee had scrutinized the assets of the Dems and ALL their backers as well, Thailand would be on it's way to a real democracy. When the intent of a body so named is to 'Scru' one person, and ignore the corruption of the Dems, Pad, the coup plotters, both hidden and visible, it all comes down to so much bullsh@t.
It is corruption that holds Thailand back, from all sides. You cannot have a conspiracy without partners.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:28 PM   #493 (permalink)
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Charter debate to restart today - The Nation

Charter debate to restart today

The Nation April 10, 2012 1:00 am


Fears of a rushed reconciliation bill favouring Thaksin


A joint meeting of the two houses of Parliament is scheduled to begin debate this morning on a second reading of a draft about amending the Constitution.

Meanwhile, chief government whip Udomdej Ratanasatien said yesterday he was ready to propose an extension to the Senate-House debate - until Thursday.

The second reading of the draft on constitutional amendment has been scheduled for 9.30am today and tomorrow, with 172 members of Parliament registered to speak. The Democrats have attacked the government for its moves, saying it is trying to rush the issue.

Pheu Thai Party spokesman Prompong Nopparit said after a party meeting that MPs were asked to speak concisely, especially if they plan to make similar points.

First Deputy Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatpanij said the Senate would meet this morning before the House-Senate joint session on charter amendment to discuss the Upper House's stance.

Nikom said he personally had no problem with the proposed change to Article 291, but he wanted the Constitution Drafting Assembly to have 200 elected members instead of 99 elected and selected ones. Article 291 is about the charter amendment process.

According to the government's bill, 77 members of the assembly drafting a new charter will come from an election to represent the 77 provinces, while the other 22 would be experts in related fields.

Senator Surachai Liengboonlerschai said the Parliament should extend the discussion time from two days to three because as many as 172 parliamentarians have shown an intention to join the debate.

Surachai said members of the drafting body should come from an election so the government cannot favour its own people. Moreover, qualifications should be specified - such as experts in public laws and experts in political science, etc.

Instead of authorising the House Speaker to decide on a charter draft, Surachai said Parliament should do the job, then send the draft to the Election Commission to conduct a referendum.

If the people disagree with the draft in the referendum, the process should stop, he said.

Surachai said to prevent vote-buying there should be no election campaigning for candidates, who should only be allowed to introduce themselves.

A former charter drafter, Surachai said his group from the 2007 charter drafting process would issue a statement before today's parliamentary debate.

Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said on Blue Sky Channel yesterday the current session of Parliament should be closed once the third reading of the charter bill is finished on April 27 or 28.

He said if the second reading is finished by Thursday, the third reading could take place on April 27. But if government MPs still want to extend the session, it was possible they plan to rush and push for a reconciliation law within the session to favour former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

The current parliamentary session was supposed to end on April 18 but the Cabinet has resolved to extend it indefinitely.

Democrat MP Thepthai Senapong said yesterday Pheu Thai MPs should not rush the debate. If it is not finished within two days, it should be extended.

However, Pheu Thai MPs looked to want to rush proceedings so the third reading of the charter draft is finished by the end of April, Thepthai said.

The third reading is required to take place at least 15 days after the draft passes its second reading.

Some observers said Pheu Thai MPs might want to finish the debate within two days so they can share Songkran greetings with Thaksin in Laos on Thursday.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:31 PM   #494 (permalink)
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Democrats attack bill debate plan | Bangkok Post: news

Democrats attack bill debate plan
Parliament will convene a joint session for a second reading of a draft amendment to the constitution's Section 291 today and tomorrow, amid criticism by the opposition Democrat Party.


Thepthai: Seeking a postponement.

The Democrats have criticised House speaker Somsak Kiatsuranond for rushing the second reading.

They suspect he is trying to get the second reading approved by Thursday, when many Pheu Thai MPs hope to travel to Laos to meet exiled former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Boonyod Sukthinthai, the opposition whip, said a committee vetting the draft had finished its meeting on Thursday at 10pm.

Friday to Monday are holidays marking the Songkran festival, and should be kept free, he said.

He said he would propose that the government postpone the debate to next week.

Democrat MP Thepthai Senpong said he was wondering why Mr Somsak had called a House meeting on the day after the royal funeral ceremony of Her Royal Highness Princess Bejaratana Rajasuda.

The second reading should be postponed to Thursday and Friday because several MPs have only just received the documents needed.

He said this gave the impression that Pheu Thai wanted to push the amendment through parliament before Thursday, so that party members could travel to the Lao capital, Vientiene, to greet Thaksin on April 13, the first day of the Songkran holidays.

Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said 172 MPs wanted to propose changes to the draft.

The party has sought cooperation from coalition MPs who planned to raise similar points, to ensure the debate is as concise as possible.

Udomdej Ratanapien, the government chief whip, said the whip might propose that the House speaker extend the debate to Thursday, if the two-day timeframe proves insufficient.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:35 PM   #495 (permalink)
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The entire senate is appointed FFS. That has to change.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:14 PM   #496 (permalink)
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Tempers frayed over Hasty Constitution for Thaksin - The Nation

Tempers frayed over Hasty Constitution for Thaksin

The Nation April 10, 2012 2:10 pm

Coalition and opposition lawmakers on Tuesday needed two 30-minute recesses to cool down from their exchange of snide remarks before kicking off the session for the final two readings of the charter amendment bill.

House Speaker Somsak Kiartsuranont convened the morning's session as a consultation on whether to shuffle the legislative agendas, paving way for the debate on the bill designed to form the Constitution Drafting Assembly.

The Democrats took the floor to air their opposition views, citing two main reasons - the hasty manner which the bill was designated the legislative agenda despite the long weekend and the questionable vetting process done by the Sonthi Boonyaratglin committee.

Democrat MP Suthas Ngernmuen lashed out at the coalition for pushing for a hasty passage of the bill this month simply because MPs and senators have scheduled to travel abroad next month.

As the Democrats began to question the intent behind the rush for the bill passage as a pretext to rescue fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, referring to the charter as Hasty Constitution for the Kingdom of Thailand for Thaksin, this prompted the exchange of sharp words and protests between the coalition and opposition benches.

Somsak ordered the first break before reconvening before noon.

The reconvened session saw MPs still trading barbs. The Democrats tried to delay putting the bill on the House agenda while the coalition MPs wanted the consultation session to end in order to force a vote.

Somsak again had to call for recess.

In the afternoon, the House finally cast the 337-to-91 vote to designate the bill as a legislative priority, activating the charter debate.

The Democrats and Pheu Thai MPs then spent hours bickering over the name of the new charter as per the motion moved by Democrat MP Thepthai Sennapong who dubbed the charter as the "Hasty Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand for Thaksin.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:11 PM   #497 (permalink)
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The entire senate is appointed FFS. That has to change.
Actually a majority of the Senate is elected. 76 Senators are directly elected from the 75 Provinces and Bangkok, the other 74 are appointed from various sectors by the Senate Selection Committee.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:41 PM   #498 (permalink)
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The entire senate is appointed FFS. That has to change.
Actually a majority of the Senate is elected. 76 Senators are directly elected from the 75 Provinces and Bangkok, the other 74 are appointed from various sectors by the Senate Selection Committee.
TH
like in France, which is also known for being a military dictatorship
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:01 PM   #499 (permalink)
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Ombudsman's warning on constitutionality of charter amendment bill - The Nation

Ombudsman's warning on constitutionality of charter amendment bill

The Nation April 10, 2012 5:28 pm

The Office of Ombudsman has alerted the government and the House about three potential flaws impacting on the constitutionality of the charter amendment bill.

"The three flaws should be rectified in order to avoid the dispute on the bill's constitutionality," ombudsman Sriracha Charoenpanij said on Tuesday, coinciding with the charter debate on the final passage of the bill.

To preempt the first flaw, the draft provison should be revised to designate the prime minister to countersign the royal command on the promulgation of the new charter. The original draft has named the Parliament president for the countersign,

In rectifying the second flaw, the Constitution Court should be designated to launch a judicial review should the question of constitutionality arise in connection with the political system as will be prescribed by the new charter. Under the draft provision, the Parliament president is the designated authority to rule on the issue.

Opponents of the charter rewrite have planned to question the constitutionality of the new charter on suspicion that the ruling Pheu Thai Party has the ulterior motive to change or undermine the democratic rule with the King as head of state.

In regard to the third and final flaw, the draft provision should designate the Parliament president for submitting the referendum-approved charter draft for royal endorsement.

In the original version, the draft spells out a scenario in which the Parliament will invoke a two-thirds majority to override the King's veto.
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:49 AM   #500 (permalink)
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At the very least this needs to be presented to the people and let them make a choice via a referendum (even the Coup government did that!). Failing that, if it is done through parliament it should require a 2/3 majority vote to pass, this is done in many western democracies when dealing with constitutional amendments.
2/3 majority?
Anything over 50% is a majority. The last Thai referendum for the constitution only needed 50% of the people who voted that day. Why change the rules now?
You miss my point. I didn't say the last referendum required a 2/3 majority. The point was that the coup govt went back to the population with the new constitution while the 'democratic' PT govt sees this as a waste of time.

As for the 2/3 majority. In most western democracies, changes to the constitution are seen as very important and the 2/3 mechanism is in place so that the 'majority' (not just 50.01%) of the people must agree before it can be implemented.

I do find it strange on this forum when the actions of the previous govt were discussed there were some who always held them up to be compared to western standards of democracy, however the same people give the new govt a free pass by saying 'well it is ok because the illegal coup govt did it". Hillarious.
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